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Amazon Shop for: Paul Stamets, Rye Grain

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OfflineTeon
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Anyone SACing?
    #2220592 - 01/05/04 03:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just wondering.

It occured to me that I never seem to hear anyone talking about SACing. Seems strange because I'm always hearing people talk about trying really bizarre stuff, not that SACing is by any means bizarre. At least not any more bizarre than the act of agriculture in the first place.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Teon]
    #2220655 - 01/05/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've done it. It works. I found it was not necessary for me.

The wisdom in Stamets advice to make your spawn the vehicle for supplementation pretty much eliminates supplementing at any other time. Just using a lot of colonized grain spawn is the best and safest way to supplement if you ask me. As he points out, spawn is cheap and easy to make. Why bother with supplements?

But hey, that's just what I decided on SACing. I'm sure some people would prefer it for some reason, so it does work. Not that many people bother with it (probably because of high spawn rates making it unnecessary), and fewer people talk about it. Do you have some specific ?s?


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: mycofile]
    #2220826 - 01/05/04 04:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Stupid question: What is "SACing" ?  :rolleyes:


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Anonymous

Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: ragadinks]
    #2220884 - 01/05/04 05:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Supplementation At Casing...the introduction of additional nutritional supplements to substrate prior to casing.


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Theo Nanacatl]
    #2221111 - 01/05/04 06:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

thanks ...


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OfflineErik006
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Teon]
    #2221139 - 01/05/04 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

>The wisdom in Stamets advice to make your spawn the vehicle for  supplementation pretty much eliminates supplementing at any other time. Just using a lot of colonized grain spawn is the best and safest way to supplement if you ask me. As he points out, spawn is cheap and easy to make. Why bother with supplements?

What advantages does supplementing at casing really have? If you use grains/ bulk as a substrate isn't that water supply to the substrate the limiting factor moreso then nutrients? Did you have any big changes in potency (bioessay) or more/heavier fruits?

Erik006 :laugh:


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OfflineTeon
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Erik006]
    #2221728 - 01/05/04 11:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Stamets:

"The fully colonized substrate is mixed with [soy bean meal, cottonseed meal, and/or ground rye] at a rate of 10% op the dry weight fo the substrate... High substrate tempratures should be anticipated on the second or third day after supplementation. With this type of nutrient enhancement yield increases of 1/2 - 2 lbs/ sq. ft. are possible."


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Teon]
    #2223398 - 01/06/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you use grains/ bulk as a substrate isn't that water supply to the substrate the limiting factor moreso then nutrients?



Yes, with grains but not necessarily bulk substrates. Grains are much more nutrient dense than bulk substrates and shouldn't really benefit from supplementation much. Bulk substrates are much less nutient dense and therefore may benefit from supplementation.
Quote:

Did you have any big changes in potency (bioessay) or more/heavier fruits?



No. OK, not really. When using straw and only the bare minimum amount of spawn necessary to colonize it, I did see reduced harvest weights compared to high spawn rates (with the theory that the spawn itself was the supplement). (Others have reported lowered potency in similar situations but I never did and personally consider the reports suspect)

Quote:

"The fully colonized substrate is mixed with [soy bean meal, cottonseed meal, and/or ground rye] at a rate of 10% op the dry weight fo the substrate



I would note here that he also recomends a much lower spawn rate than most of us use. Many people often spawn at 10 to even 50% of substrate weight, thereby supplementing even more than is recomended here for SACing.
Quote:

With this type of nutrient enhancement yield increases of 1/2 - 2 lbs/ sq. ft. are possible.



I'd also like to note here for people who may not be familiar with the books that these are wet figures which relate to .8 to 3.2 dry ounces. I would consider that a fairly accurate number, assuming that you are comparing it to a truly unsupplemented bulk substrate (meaning one with a very low spawn rate). I would also consider this figure a good estimate of the difference between extremely low and extremely high spawn rates.

So with all that being said, I think most people are probably not going to see much benefit from SACing, as most people are already supplementing their bulk substrates with high spawnrates. It's just generally much easier to use an extra quart of spawn than it is to bother with SACing (and it's increased contam risk), especially when you consider that the results are comparable.

But if you are using low spawn rates for some specific reason, SACing may be beneficial.


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OfflineMycena
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: mycofile]
    #2296723 - 02/03/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ive heard of using Vegetable oils
heating the oil up to sterilise it, then id imagine putting it in a spray bottle once cool enough and spraying it through colonised straw in a thin film

will have to try it out one of these days


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Mycena]
    #2300401 - 02/04/04 01:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Interesting. I must say that I've never heard of it though. Are you sure you aren't confusing supplementing a substrate vs. supplementing compost prior to phase II composting?

Reason I say is that it is common practice to use vegetable oils or sugar rich syrups such as molases in the manner you describe during composting. I have done this, and the extra heat it generates is impressive! Phase II composting (which usually requires steam) can be done at room temp in an insulated container!

So, just making sure you really mean supplementing a bulk substrate, because the amount of heat increase I saw in compost would kill mycelium for sure, but maybe it's just a matter of how much oil is used?

Also, reminds me to warn of the thermogenesis with any supplementation. Typical SACing results in a temp surge, usually on the 2nd or 3rd day, as much as 10-15*F. This needs to be anticipated so it doesn't get out of hand. In other words, don't incubate a supplemented substrate, the mycelium will die and thermophyllic microbes will proliferate, typically bacteria.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinepsiloz
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: mycofile]
    #2307688 - 02/06/04 07:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:
Stamets numbers arent that impressive though. 1 1/2 to 2 lbs? whats that 600 to 900g or so - once youve got the strain and the pinning down pat thats normal using Bulk neglect - ive even seen higher - one freak box once gave up a 1.5kg bouquet


Edited by psiloz (02/06/04 07:19 AM)


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OfflineMycena
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: mycofile]
    #2307694 - 02/06/04 07:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes im familiar with the use of oil and molasses during compost conditioning but yes what i read was SAC'ing which was why the oil was heated up to pasteurise it

As i said i havent tried it and yes i imagine that the thermogenesis would be significant - go easy on the oil
This is why i think an 'atomiser' spray bottle would be useful to ensure the straw is covered in a fine layer of droplets rather than saturated in oil


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: Mycena]
    #2308216 - 02/06/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, just checking. Good tip on that atomiser spray bottle for sure, I in fact used one even when supplementing the compost for even distribution (no "hotspots").


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Anyone SACing? [Re: psiloz]
    #2308228 - 02/06/04 12:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

psiloz, note that those are YIELD INCREASES, not just yields. If they were just yields, then yes they wouldn't be that impressive. In fact they would be pretty piss poor. But when you are talking about up to an ADDITIONAL 2 pounds (wet)/sq. ft then it's worth looking into. (unless of course you're already getting the benefit of high spawn rates, SASing in effect)


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Amazon Shop for: Paul Stamets, Rye Grain

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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