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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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So it's been a little while...
    #22205725 - 09/08/15 04:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

After about 10 years i started growing some shrooms again and i have a couple of questions:

-What's new? any particular 'must read' items you guys recommend i check out?

-I have a bunch of 10yo cubensis spore prints. is there any point in trying any of them?

-i am going to try growing some Pan. cyan using PF method with cow manure. how does manure sterilise without a PC? would repeatedly cooking the jars 3 times in 24 hour intervals do it? (i am below sea level, so that helps)


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22205742 - 09/08/15 05:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Read this for fruiting cakes.

10 year old prints are probably not viable. You could try em but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Steaming for 90 min will be fine for brf and manure. Its grains that we need to be using pressure. Being below sea level will only be in your favor. Its higher elevations where water boils at a lower temp that will be tricky for steaming.

Welcome back to the hobby :super:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22205755 - 09/08/15 05:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if you get a syringe cap and a thick red rubber band, you can make up a spore syringe and try re hydrating the spores. Just put the cap on the syringe and put the rubber band over the top and onto the plunger so it pushes it down and leave it like that for 24 hours.

Other then that try and trade for a new print, and good luck :thumbup:


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22205766 - 09/08/15 05:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

thanks :smile:

that's good to hear about the manure, that will save me a lot of time. :smile:
i am currently going trough a process of sterilising rye by
steaming for 3 hours every 24 hours 3 times to see if i can do it.

i have my fruiting chamber set up already.
i think it was once called the 'poor man's pod' :P
it's your basic plastic tub + geolite + bubbly pump setup.
though later today i should be receiving a thermostat for a heat mat i have for a minor upgrade. :smile:


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: PanzerCubed]
    #22205769 - 09/08/15 05:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PanzerCubed said:
if you get a syringe cap and a thick red rubber band, you can make up a spore syringe and try re hydrating the spores. Just put the cap on the syringe and put the rubber band over the top and onto the plunger so it pushes it down and leave it like that for 24 hours.

Other then that try and trade for a new print, and good luck :thumbup:




no worries, i already ordered some fresh spores n stuff. :smile:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22205820 - 09/08/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

FYI a PMP will perform terrible for pans and only barely adequate for cubes. No one uses them these days because the FAE is so terrible in them.

Also an 8 hour steam is better for rye but if you do tyndalize I believe its far better to steam every 12-18 hours. 24 hours allows too many bacteria to germinate and it becomes harder to kill them all.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22205829 - 09/08/15 06:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've had 4 year old prints work so give yours a go, you might want to try them. You may be pleasantly surprised.


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Edited by Laughingcowwa (09/08/15 06:15 AM)


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22205924 - 09/08/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
FYI a PMP will perform terrible for pans and only barely adequate for cubes. No one uses them these days because the FAE is so terrible in them.

Also an 8 hour steam is better for rye but if you do tyndalize I believe its far better to steam every 12-18 hours. 24 hours allows too many bacteria to germinate and it becomes harder to kill them all.




i never had any problems with the PMP and cubensis myself.
what would you recommend for pans?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22205942 - 09/08/15 07:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A SGFC would be good, read the link I gave you. It will make pans really happy. Also perhaps you don't really care either way but for many there is a big difference between getting a flush with cubes, and having healthy happy fruits with a high BE. Cubes have been known to fruit in trash cans and toilets, they can also fruit in a PMP. But its far from optimal.

Like I said its all about what you're happy with. If you feel your PMP is up to the task then have at it. But there are better options. You asked whats new. Well the SGFC is far from new but, it is recommended a lot for good reason.


Anyway good luck and keep us posted :rockon:


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22206149 - 09/08/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i think i will use the pmp and additionally fan by hand to see if it makes a difference.
if it does maybe ill ad a fan or something.

as for the pans, ill have to do some more research.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22206406 - 09/08/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
i think i will use the pmp and additionally fan by hand to see if it makes a difference.
if it does maybe ill ad a fan or something.

as for the pans, ill have to do some more research.



We do not fan for FAE, you would need to fan several times per hour......

Do not add a fan, build a proper fruiting chamber that provides the needed amount of FAE.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22206408 - 09/08/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Fanning by hand is not FAE. Cubes require 3-6 air exchanges per hour. Unless you plan to fan that many times around the clock the extra fanning is not providing FAE. It may however dry the cakes out. Passive systems are better than manual or automatic. Hand fanning is meant to remove humide air and encourage evaporation. Too much is detremental.

If you really are dead set on making a PMP work for pans, look up posts by Blue Helix. He used a heavily modified PMP set up for his pan grows and they were indeed excellent.  It only took him a few years to get it dialed in properly. But once he got it right it was Impressive.


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22208450 - 09/08/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

are the pearlite and holes in the bottom necessary?

i think i remember seeing people grow pans with the substrate right in the bottom of the fruiting chamber itself, instead of a tray.
could i do that and just add the holes on the sides and top?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22208523 - 09/08/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
are the pearlite and holes in the bottom necessary?



Everything in the tek is necessary....

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
i think i remember seeing people grow pans with the substrate right in the bottom of the fruiting chamber itself, instead of a tray.
could i do that and just add the holes on the sides and top?



No...


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: PussyFart]
    #22208567 - 09/08/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so how did people grow pans before the SGFC came along?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22208720 - 09/08/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
so how did people grow pans before the SGFC came along?



Less adequately....


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22208831 - 09/08/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
so hw did people grow pans before the SGFC came along?



Less adequately....




:whathesaid: Here is the crux of this whole thread. You asked:

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
-What's new? any particular 'must read' items you guys recommend i check out?





Well whats new is that we figured out that good FAE is a lot more important than we had been giving it credit for. Even for more CO2 tolerant species like cubes, good FAE improved pinset and yield. The best pan grows from a decade ago were and still are done in a greenhouse. But the SGFC is a big improvement over the PMP, one that will help your cube cakes shine as well. Its why I suggested it.

Pans have also been done in monotubs, usually modified for extra FAE beyond what you would configure for a cube set up. Monotubs are a bit newer as well as they came into use in 2005. Monotubs are meant for bulk grows tho, which is why I never mentioned it.

I bring it up because the 3 most common fruiting chambers today are monotubs, greenhouses, and SGFC. Very few people use a PMP anymore simply because they do not perform anywhere as well as those aforementioned chambers.

Anyway I can tell you want to use your PMP. Its understandable as you already have it and its what you know. But do me a favor, when your pans don't pin or your cubes end up lanky with fuzzy feet and small caps,  don't make a new thread asking why. Just read this one again :wink:


Edited by Pastywhyte (09/08/15 07:05 PM)


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22209104 - 09/08/15 07:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

meh i'm not married to the pmp, but i want to see what my options are.

so i have some more questions:

with the holes in the bottom, is there not a need for dripping tray?

and isn't it hard to keep the moisture level up? seems like the pearlite would dry out quickly.

is there a way to wick water from another container to the pearlite?

are there any alternatives to pearlite? could geolite work?

and what does this do to the humidity of the room the tub sits in?
humidity is generally high here already.

a random THC induced idea: what about a living culture of sphagnum?
i guess it would acidify the water too much huh?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22209159 - 09/08/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Definitley don't mean to threadjack but would you want a bit extra FAE for PS. Mexicana too? I just spawned  Ps. Mex to a monotub like litterally ten minutes ago, first time working with them past a plate


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InvisibleDaveyJones6911
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22209219 - 09/08/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Definitley don't mean to threadjack but would you want a bit extra FAE for PS. Mexicana too? I just spawned  Ps. Mex to a monotub like litterally ten minutes ago, first time working with them past a plate




no worries, i also would like to know that.
while we are at it, what about P. tampanensis?
any advances in growing either of these for actual mushrooms
instead of sclerotia?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22209226 - 09/08/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
meh i'm not married to the pmp, but i want to see what my options are.

so i have some more questions:

with the holes in the bottom, is there not a need for dripping tray?

and isn't it hard to keep the moisture level up? seems like the pearlite would dry out quickly.

is there a way to wick water from another container to the pearlite?

are there any alternatives to pearlite? could geolite work?

and what does this do to the humidity of the room the tub sits in?
humidity is generally high here already.

a random THC induced idea: what about a living culture of sphagnum?
i guess it would acidify the water too much huh?




The water will be held by the perlite, no need for a drip.

Depending on the RH the perlite can remain moist for up to six weeks. My area is super dry and my SGFC stays moist for 10 days.

Lots of things can work other than perlite. The hydroton or geolite in your PMP will work. Could use gravel if you had too.

It will not affect the RH of the room its in.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22209231 - 09/08/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ps. Mex, galindoi, tampensis etc all benefit greatly from higher FAE.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22209252 - 09/08/15 08:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

give em some more light to so u get some nice sized caps u can print and send home to mom!!


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22212368 - 09/09/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so how do you re-hydrate it when it dries out?
mist with a spray bottle?

also how much light do pans really need?
and why do they need it? surely they are not photosynthesising?
i'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, how about an array of blue LEDs?
or maybe even UV LEDs?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22212396 - 09/09/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

they derive energy from the light:super: they have a circadian rhythm much like you and i so 12 on 12 off, blue led's is not what is meant by the blue spectrum, the spectrum is actually more white to our eyes, just a daylight bulb nothing fancy


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22212434 - 09/09/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so high CRI? warm white over cool white? or the other way around?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22212448 - 09/09/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

6500k seems to be ideal....or a bright window:thumbup:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22212619 - 09/09/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i have the bright window, but i fear that will make any mushrooms grow sideways unless i darken the sides of the tub.

how much lux/lumen do i need?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22212773 - 09/09/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

there not plants so lux and lumens don't really matter, don't worry about what direction they grow either light only plays one part of that:smile:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22213193 - 09/09/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok so then the window light should be fine. i have some spots in my house that will work.
failing that, i could use some of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cree-XP-G-XPG-R5-5w-Cool-White-6000-6500k-LED-Emitter-chip-With-20mm-star-Base-/221476572840?hash=item3391084ea8

so without the lamp there is the issue of not having the heat on top to create the drafts n stuff.
what happens when the heat source is beneath the tub?


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Edited by DaveyJones6911 (09/09/15 05:05 PM)


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22213242 - 09/09/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
ok so then the window light should be fine. i have some spots in my house that will work.

so without the lamp there is the issue of not having the heat on top to create the drafts n stuff.
what happens when the heat source is beneath the tub?





The lamps we use are simple, florcesent. CFLs work fine. They produce virtually no heat.

But what heat source are you talking about? What is your room temp that you need extra heat?


I think you are thinking too complicated man. Simple is good in this hobby~!


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22213302 - 09/09/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

well i was looking at this guide:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek

and it mentions that a lamp over the tub causes the air on top the heat up causing a pressure differential that causes upward drafts and sets the whole air circulation principle in motion.

(does that make sense btw? wouldn't the hot air tend to rise?)

the room i have the tub in is currently around 20C and i expect it to drop as low as 18C by day and even lower by night.
i read that pans are more sensitive to temp so i am thinking of using an IR heat mat beneath the tub. this would basically reverse the air temperature situation.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22213416 - 09/09/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No, don't use the heat mat even on the lower end your temps are perfect

SGFC is about as simple as it gets. Mist 3-5 times a day, fan after misting for a few seconds. Keep it elevated up at the corners (I use mason jars). 6500K CFL bulb in regular lamp fixture

If your cakes look dry, mist them.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22213620 - 09/09/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
well i was looking at this guide:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek

and it mentions that a lamp over the tub causes the air on top the heat up causing a pressure differential that causes upward drafts and sets the whole air circulation principle in motion.



Wrong....read it again....


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22213628 - 09/09/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yeah see that's what i loved about the PMP, i didn't have to do jack 5 times a day.

and isn't the SGFC supposed to not need fanning and misting?

also about the temps, this page: http://www.shroomery.org/8698/Panaeolus-cyanescens-growth-parameters shows much higher fruiting temps then that.

is this info outdated?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22213641 - 09/09/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
yeah see that's what i loved about the PMP, i didn't have to do jack 5 times a day.



A pmp still requires misting and fanning of the cakes for optimal results.....

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
and isn't the SGFC supposed to not need fanning and misting?



No, they DO require misting/fanning....

We mist the cakes to replace lost moisture from evaporation, which happens to be a main pinning trigger.

We fan out the chamber after misting for a drop in humidity, to make room in the air for the water we just misted to evaporate...

You want constant evaporation at the surface of the substrate....


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: PussyFart]
    #22213721 - 09/09/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You will need to mist and fan your cubes. I wouldn't mist pans.  If your worried about temps being too low for pans then heat the room not the chamber.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214036 - 09/09/15 07:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

heating the room? lol you must not pay the bill at your house...

as for fruiting temp, i have an old document saying one thing, and a contemporary post saying something significantly different. so what is the correct temp?

and why would i fan cubes when they have a lower FAE requirement then pans, and i don't fan the pans?

and do i understand correctly that the one flaw of the PMP is the lack of FAE?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214059 - 09/09/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OMG YOUR WAY OVER THINKING THIS! pans will fruit in the 70's no problem and heating the chamber causes lots of problems, pmp's biggest problems are a lack of fae and a constantly high rh, myc likes some flucuation in rh, that info section is a general info section...it also says ..
SPAWN:rye grain , but you can use cakes if wanted


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214199 - 09/09/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
heating the room? lol you must not pay the bill at your house...




I'm the only one that pays bills in my house, and I live in Canada. Figure that out.

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
as for fruiting temp, i have an old document saying one thing, and a contemporary post saying something significantly different. so what is the correct temp?




Not the old document. . .

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
and why would i fan cubes when they have a lower FAE requirement then pans, and i don't fan the pans?




Fanning is not FAE. Fanning is to start evaporation, which is why we do it only after misting. I wouldn't mist pans, so I wouldn't fan them either.

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
and do i understand correctly that the one flaw of the PMP is the lack of FAE?




If you don't have one built yet they are also more costly to build than a SGFC. Like cron said a constantly saturated RH is not good. Tho the poor FAE alone is reason enough to me to not bother with one. . .



You seem pretty argumentative for someone who needs help. I will stop helping at this point. Cron, PF, he is all yours . . .

:cookiemonster:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214230 - 09/09/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not the old document. . .
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
heating the room? lol you must not pay the bill at your house...




I'm the only one that pays bills in my house, and I live in Canada. Figure that out.

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
as for fruiting temp, i have an old document saying one thing, and a contemporary post saying something significantly different. so what is the correct temp?




Not the old document. . .

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
and why would i fan cubes when they have a lower FAE requirement then pans, and i don't fan the pans?




Fanning is not FAE. Fanning is to start evaporation, which is why we do it only after misting. I wouldn't mist pans, so I wouldn't fan them either.

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
and do i understand correctly that the one flaw of the PMP is the lack of FAE?




If you don't have one built yet they are also more costly to build than a SGFC. Like cron said a constantly saturated RH is not good. Tho the poor FAE alone is reason enough to me to not bother with one. . .



You seem pretty argumentative for someone who needs help. I will stop helping at this point. Cron, PF, he is all yours . . .

:cookiemonster:





:lolsy:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214272 - 09/09/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
heating the room? lol you must not pay the bill at your house...




I'm the only one that pays bills in my house, and I live in Canada. Figure that out.





Ohhhh yesss I was waiting for this.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22214605 - 09/09/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

don't insult my intelligence by acting like i should do what i'm told without question. i am here to learn not to blindly follow orders.

uknow what, why am i even being nice about this?

i know a couple of trolls then i see them.
especially when they are so obvious, and so obviously bad at it.

get lost kids, grown ups are talking.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22214608 - 09/09/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

there are grown ups on this site??? where?!?!


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf] * 1
    #22214615 - 09/09/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Now anyone who doesn't put up with your argumentative style of learning is a troll, huh?  I've NEVER heard that one before. :rolleyes:

I swear there's a factory cranking these shits out and sending them here.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214617 - 09/09/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I'm the only one that pays bills in my house, and I live in Canada. Figure that out.




you are selling the shrooms for a profit?
canada has free heating?
i'm not sure what i'm supposed to get, but where i live
the idea of heating the room 24/7 and when i am away is ridiculously expensive.

Quote:

Not the old document. . .



ok, that answers half my question.
what exactly is the temperature range for fruiting pans?


Quote:

Fanning is not FAE. Fanning is to start evaporation, which is why we do it only after misting. I wouldn't mist pans, so I wouldn't fan them either.




ok got it, but then if humidity is high enough there is no need to mist and/or fan correct?


Quote:

You seem pretty argumentative for someone who needs help. I will stop helping at this point.




don't get all pissy because i don't blindly follow your orders mein fuhrer, i am simply trying to understand the how and why.
and there is a difference between helping and telling people what to do.
and i am not arguing anything, that's an honest and honestly simple question; is there an advantage of the SGFC besides the improved FAE?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214622 - 09/09/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
that's an honest and honestly simple question; is there an advantage of the SGFC besides the improved FAE?



You're only asking this so that you can find a way to cut corners.  If you intended to use the SGFC you would just use it, but instead you're trying to find a way to modify the PMP, otherwise you wouldn't be asking that.

Also don't ever talk about selling here or you can see yourself out.  Or cron or PF can see you out if you're feeling frisky.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22214630 - 09/09/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Now anyone who doesn't put up with your argumentative style of learning is a troll, huh?  I've NEVER heard that one before. :rolleyes:

I swear there's a factory cranking these shits out and sending them here.




get over yourself dude.

i am trying to understand, and i find it rather insulting and disappointing to find that such help has to come at the price of having to stroke your egos, only to be fed to the trolls when i fail to do so by blindly obeying the commands i am given.

also kind of ironic considering the context of these forums...

you guys need to re-examine your understanding of the words 'help' and 'learning'.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214631 - 09/09/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

take a bottle or jar of moist anything and close it

the humidity will be high.

humidity is only one factor in mushroom growing, and an important one it is...

but humidity has no relation to c02.  u can have high Rh and high co2.  u can have high Rh and low co2.

that is the difference btw SGFC and PMP.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22214638 - 09/09/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
that's an honest and honestly simple question; is there an advantage of the SGFC besides the improved FAE?



You're only asking this so that you can find a way to cut corners.  If you intended to use the SGFC you would just use it, but instead you're trying to find a way to modify the PMP, otherwise you wouldn't be asking that.

Also don't ever talk about selling here or you can see yourself out.  Or cron or PF can see you out if you're feeling frisky.




there you go again with the premise that i should simply do what i am told.
and you think not doing it the 'approved' way is cutting corners?

what is wrong with you?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214639 - 09/09/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I honestly don't know but you know what's not wrong with me?  I know good advice when I see it and I don't have to ask questions that make it sound like the person advising me is wrong.

Can you really not imagine being tired of arguing the facts with people who just want to bring "elitism" and such into it?  It's like trying to explain evolution to a fundie christian who's already set on not believing it.

Heating pads are bad, heating the room is good.
PMPs are bad, SGFCs are good.

Things CAN be simple.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22214646 - 09/09/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
take a bottle or jar of moist anything and close it

the humidity will be high.

humidity is only one factor in mushroom growing, and an important one it is...

but humidity has no relation to c02.  u can have high Rh and high co2.  u can have high Rh and low co2.

that is the difference btw SGFC and PMP.




thank you :smile:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214666 - 09/09/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I got no prob locking this shit....


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte] * 2
    #22214670 - 09/09/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Read this for fruiting cakes.

10 year old prints are probably not viable. You could try em but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Steaming for 90 min will be fine for brf and manure. Its grains that we need to be using pressure. Being below sea level will only be in your favor. Its higher elevations where water boils at a lower temp that will be tricky for steaming.

Welcome back to the hobby :super:



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Fanning by hand is not FAE. Cubes require 3-6 air exchanges per hour. Unless you plan to fan that many times around the clock the extra fanning is not providing FAE. It may however dry the cakes out. Passive systems are better than manual or automatic. Hand fanning is meant to remove humide air and encourage evaporation. Too much is detremental.

If you really are dead set on making a PMP work for pans, look up posts by Blue Helix. He used a heavily modified PMP set up for his pan grows and they were indeed excellent.  It only took him a few years to get it dialed in properly. But once he got it right it was Impressive.




Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
so hw did people grow pans before the SGFC came along?



Less adequately....




:whathesaid: Here is the crux of this whole thread. You asked:

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
-What's new? any particular 'must read' items you guys recommend i check out?





Well whats new is that we figured out that good FAE is a lot more important than we had been giving it credit for. Even for more CO2 tolerant species like cubes, good FAE improved pinset and yield. The best pan grows from a decade ago were and still are done in a greenhouse. But the SGFC is a big improvement over the PMP, one that will help your cube cakes shine as well. Its why I suggested it.

Pans have also been done in monotubs, usually modified for extra FAE beyond what you would configure for a cube set up. Monotubs are a bit newer as well as they came into use in 2005. Monotubs are meant for bulk grows tho, which is why I never mentioned it.

I bring it up because the 3 most common fruiting chambers today are monotubs, greenhouses, and SGFC. Very few people use a PMP anymore simply because they do not perform anywhere as well as those aforementioned chambers.

Anyway I can tell you want to use your PMP. Its understandable as you already have it and its what you know. But do me a favor, when your pans don't pin or your cubes end up lanky with fuzzy feet and small caps,  don't make a new thread asking why. Just read this one again :wink:



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
meh i'm not married to the pmp, but i want to see what my options are.

so i have some more questions:

with the holes in the bottom, is there not a need for dripping tray?

and isn't it hard to keep the moisture level up? seems like the pearlite would dry out quickly.

is there a way to wick water from another container to the pearlite?

are there any alternatives to pearlite? could geolite work?

and what does this do to the humidity of the room the tub sits in?
humidity is generally high here already.

a random THC induced idea: what about a living culture of sphagnum?
i guess it would acidify the water too much huh?




The water will be held by the perlite, no need for a drip.

Depending on the RH the perlite can remain moist for up to six weeks. My area is super dry and my SGFC stays moist for 10 days.

Lots of things can work other than perlite. The hydroton or geolite in your PMP will work. Could use gravel if you had too.

It will not affect the RH of the room its in.



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
You will need to mist and fan your cubes. I wouldn't mist pans.  If your worried about temps being too low for pans then heat the room not the chamber.




Really? Show me the ego. The demands. The lack of explanation. Read my posts. READ.

:stonedjerk:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22214677 - 09/09/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
I got no prob locking this shit....




Won't hurt my feeling. OP should take his fragile self over to topia where they will praise his PMP and stringy fruits

:douchewink:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214684 - 09/09/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:wink:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22214689 - 09/09/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't know but you know what's not wrong with me?  I know good advice when I see it and I don't have to ask questions that make it sound like the person advising me is wrong.




that is the result of the person (or some yahoo identifying with that person) is arrogant enough to think that his way is the only way,
that there is nothing left to learn or experiment and that he cannot indeed be wrong.

i am sorry to threaten your ego, but i want to learn how and why,
and maybe the best way just doesn't suit me.
maybe i want something with less maintenance or maybe i just want to inventory exactly what my options are. and maybe i am willing to make concessions you are not for the sake of things you may not care about but i might.

there are many reasons i might not do it the way you would or think i should, and almost none of them reflects on the people who answer my questions in any way.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22214702 - 09/09/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't know but you know what's not wrong with me?  I know good advice when I see it and I don't have to ask questions that make it sound like the person advising me is wrong.




that is the result of the person (or some yahoo identifying with that person) is arrogant enough to think that his way is the only way,
that there is nothing left to learn or experiment and that he cannot indeed be wrong.

i am sorry to threaten your ego, but i want to learn how and why,
and maybe the best way just doesn't suit me.
maybe i want something with less maintenance or maybe i just want to inventory exactly what my options are. and maybe i am willing to make concessions you are not for the sake of things you may not care about but i might.

there are many reasons i might not do it the way you would or think i should, and almost none of them reflects on the people who answer my questions in any way.


a sgfc is the least maintained fc for cakes. Mist a couple times a day and if you cant do that this hobby is not for u


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22214706 - 09/09/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Okay then. :shrug:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214711 - 09/09/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
I got no prob locking this shit....




Won't hurt my feeling. OP should take his fragile self over to topia where they will praise his PMP and stringy fruits

:douchewink:




MY fragile ego???

i think you homed in on the problem, but you have it ass backwards.
you are taking my not following your advice to the letter way to personally.

like i said there are many possible reasons i might try alternative methods. and i don't need a reason to want to understand the method that i am advised to use.

and i already said i wasn't married to the PMP.
i believe that's called redactio ad absurdum.

look I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT ANY OF THIS ok?
so relax! i have my own reasons for wanting to experiment and they have nothing to do with you.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22214716 - 09/09/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:facepalm:addicted to drama...bye bye


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22214718 - 09/09/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
Quote:

Inocuole said:
I don't know but you know what's not wrong with me?  I know good advice when I see it and I don't have to ask questions that make it sound like the person advising me is wrong.




that is the result of the person (or some yahoo identifying with that person) is arrogant enough to think that his way is the only way,
that there is nothing left to learn or experiment and that he cannot indeed be wrong.

i am sorry to threaten your ego, but i want to learn how and why,
and maybe the best way just doesn't suit me.
maybe i want something with less maintenance or maybe i just want to inventory exactly what my options are. and maybe i am willing to make concessions you are not for the sake of things you may not care about but i might.

there are many reasons i might not do it the way you would or think i should, and almost none of them reflects on the people who answer my questions in any way.


a sgfc is the least maintained fc for cakes. Mist a couple times a day and if you cant do that this hobby is not for u




what does that have to do with trying to understand how the SGFC works?
and how is that any different then saying 'do what your told or screw you'?

is it against the rules to want to experiment?
i remember when i was here before such a thing was encouraged...


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214727 - 09/09/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

See what the fuck I mean...you get an opinion and swing.gl this is not the place for you and your bs


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214729 - 09/09/15 10:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You said you wanted to get with the times and step up growing, now you're talking about experimenting over and over.  We don't like to help with experiments because people who do good experiments already know why they're experimenting, and aren't just trying random stuff and calling it experimenting.  I like the results of experiments, but almost nobody here likes to help engineer one for someone else. :shrug:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22214772 - 09/09/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
is it against the rules to want to experiment?
i remember when i was here before such a thing was encouraged...




It is encouraged. But I doubt you even understand what an experiment is. In fact I doubt you have enough understanding to set up an observation, in order to formulate a hypothesis, in order to run an experiment. Or by experiment do you mean shooting spores in a jar of brf and once colonized sticking it into a PMP? Cause that has been done. By many people. Its not an experiment. The results usually suck.

There is no ego other than yours. My posts in this thread are made with no other intent than to provide you with good information. Show me a single post I made where I demand you do what I say. I really don't care to be honest. At the end of the day you are gonna do what you want, and I am going to grow some nice mushrooms :shrug:

Anyway its late, I am gonna crash. Good luck OP, I really mean that :thumbup:


Edited by Pastywhyte (09/09/15 11:07 PM)


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214808 - 09/09/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

LOL Look at his sig!
:canthelpbutlaugh:
"Creativity is dangerous thing in the eyes of those who don't have any. "
He's one of those types.  The types to leave reminders for themselves of how angry they are. :rofl2:


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Edited by Inocuole (09/09/15 11:02 PM)


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22214820 - 09/09/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No doubt change that shit pasty:facepalm:lol jk


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22214842 - 09/09/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sorry cron. . .

:okay:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22214858 - 09/09/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lmafo:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22214888 - 09/09/15 11:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Davey the Shroomery is the Shroomery
and no ranting and railing
will change that.
As cronicr suggested
there are other forums
which might suit your taste.
Not criticizing, just suggesting.
After all
it's all about the shrooms
right?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: ShroominMe]
    #22214922 - 09/09/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ShroominMe said:
Davey the Shroomery is the Shroomery
and no ranting and railing
will change that.
As cronicr suggested
there are other forums
which might suit your taste.
Not criticizing, just suggesting.
After all
it's all about the shrooms
right?




Cron, when you get a chance, correct this guy and see if he ignores you.  That's what he does to everybody else.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22215056 - 09/10/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

there cannot possibly be this many people this dumb and/or narcissistic in 1 thread together. statistics simply won't allow it.

seriously, the idea that you can be this oblivious to the fact that you prove every one of my points with every post is quite ridiculous.

clearly the only possibility is that i am being trolled.

i mean we all have seen other forums where adults converse in a mature and pleasant fashion. we all know the sharp contrast between that and what we see here.

obviously i am being trolled.

what, may i ask, are you hoping to achieve that isn't already achieved in every comment section of every youtube video ever uploaded?

and just to be clear: i would prefer to go back to the original topic, but you have made your intentions clear to boycott any attempt at doing so. so don't be blaming me for the drama, i wanted to talk about fruiting chambers.

which btw, nobody ever forced anyone to reply to anything so really there is no reason for anyone to feel rectally victimised.

now can we be done with silly initiation rituals and get back to talking about fruiting chambers?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22215073 - 09/10/15 12:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
After about 10 years i started growing some shrooms again and i have a couple of questions:

-What's new? any particular 'must read' items you guys recommend i check out?

-I have a bunch of 10yo cubensis spore prints. is there any point in trying any of them?

-i am going to try growing some Pan. cyan using PF method with cow manure. how does manure sterilise without a PC? would repeatedly cooking the jars 3 times in 24 hour intervals do it? (i am below sea level, so that helps)



i would check out pasty's agar tek, then the pf tek but modified to a 1:1:1:1 brf/verm/manure/water and once you have a clean colonized plate squirt your syringe in and suck up some myc and knock your jars up and fruit them in a sgfc, pmp's are not well suited for pans


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22215095 - 09/10/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OP just look at this. It's a simplistic explanation of a sgfc. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/remlinker.php?Cat=&Entry=149248&F_Board=2&Thread=20195542&Main=20195542

Also just search for pmp grows and sgfc grows. Especially from TCs. You'll see the difference in quality.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Mad Season]
    #22215535 - 09/10/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ay dios mío!!
la "poor mans pod" no da y medio ambiente adecuado


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22215544 - 09/10/15 05:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lolwut:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: PussyFart]
    #22215555 - 09/10/15 05:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

es mi acento es sexy ??

:bashful:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22215564 - 09/10/15 05:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:smbfacepalm:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22215569 - 09/10/15 05:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
es mi acento es sexy ??

:bashful:



mucho


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Aero]
    #22226079 - 09/12/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

wow...
just... wow...

so i checked out links posted and browsed around a bit and came to the inescapable conclusion that, these questions that perturb some of you so, are ones that no 2 people seem to be able to agree on the answer.

does it really hurt that much to simply admit you don't know?

anyways those of you who managed to respond like a reasonably high functioning mammal have been helpful despite these these crustaceans and their bandwagon.

so thanks. :smile:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911] * 1
    #22226102 - 09/12/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think we actually all agreed on everything said.  You have like 3 TCs, 2 mods, and a bunch of other people all saying the same thing.  I love the conflicted information bit though.  That's my favorite one, right next to "I followed this youtube video".


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Inocuole]
    #22226117 - 09/12/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I sure there are plenty of young earth creationists that disagree with Stephen hawking too :facepalm:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #22227217 - 09/12/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:facepalm:This guys hopeless


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22227513 - 09/12/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if you mean the point about fanning and misting, yeah i get that.
i was talking about the sgfc specifically though.
also let's not forget the other half of the people who have yet to say anything on topic.

also i don't know why you guys think i am rejecting your precious SFGC, because i am not.

as it happens my plan is this:

i will use the pmp for some cubes to start with, because that's where i left off when i started and i know it works well enough to get me some shrooms. and since a single 6 cake grow in the pmp provided me with more mushrooms then i consume in a year last time, it should suffice.

to see if i can make it work in my conditions i will also make a SFGC and grow some cubes in that. whether or not i will keep it depends on my experience working with it vs my desire for more cubensis. the main reason i will build it is to see it in action and help me decide how to grow pans.
when i decide on a method i think having messed around with both pmp and sgfc will be quite helpful.

once i have a harvest and something growing in the SGFC, just for the fun of it i am going to start fucking with the pmp.
if the problem with it is a lack of FAE, and i know it is excessively humid, i don't see why i couldn't sacrifice some of that humidity in favour of fresh air and improve on the basic design. probably not much, but whatever.

just to be complete i guess i should mention i am also growing some P. azurescens spawn. i tried before with the wrong wood chips, buw not i have a shitload of beech chips and it's going quite well :smile:
also i have some LC experiments going, and at least the maple syrup i
used to make it is turning out to be quite effective at growing 'something'. i should know what the 'something' is in a few days...



if anything here is hopeless it is a bunch of people who have forgotten hobbies are supposed to be fun.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22227632 - 09/12/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think what's fun is succeeding. And learning what happy subs/fruits look like. Personally I think a chamber for max fae helps teach us more. Because when you get used to it, and finally work on other chambers/working on their design, you know exactly what to look for. A sgfc makes it so you don't have to work on that, making it the cheapest, best chamber for noobs.

It's hard enough figuring out misting. It's much harder figuring out fae on top of that.


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Edited by Mad Season (09/12/15 03:37 PM)


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Mad Season]
    #22227677 - 09/12/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Do you own a pressure cooker? Because if you o, grain spawn and bulk substrate will open up a wholw new world for you!


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22227820 - 09/12/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:




if anything here is hopeless it is a bunch of people who have forgotten hobbies are supposed to be fun.



i am simply saying you came for opinions then spit at everybody who said a sgfc..myself included, do what ya will and good luck


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: mushpunx]
    #22237422 - 09/14/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Do you own a pressure cooker? Because if you o, grain spawn and bulk substrate will open up a wholw new world for you!




no, but i am running an experiment to see if i can get away with a large pot.
i know odds are low, but you never know.
i tried to sterilise some rye by steaming it 3 times in 18-24 hour intervals
and after a couple of days of not seeing anything green i injected some Ps. cyanescens spores.
i am seeing the first white speckles here and there now.

i know, i know... but as i am but 3-4 meters above sea level i felt i had to try.
alternatively there is a place that sells pre sterilised bags of rye, but they are 25 euros per bag :S

in the mean time though i still have cow manure to experiment with.
if am am going to grow pans i want to grow cubensis on shitcakes first and see what happens.
the cow dung they sell here is all branded, and it doesn't say on the packaging if it has any additives
so i guess ill have to test it out.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22237444 - 09/14/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tyndallization apparently works better if you do it in 12-16 hour intervals instead. An 8 hour straight steam would be even better if you had the time.


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22238187 - 09/14/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Tyndallization apparently works better if you do it in 12-16 hour intervals instead. An 8 hour straight steam would be even better if you had the time.




is it a problem if there are periodic interruptions as i poor in some more (boiled) water
to compensate for evaporation?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22238269 - 09/14/15 07:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Tyndallization apparently works better if you do it in 12-16 hour intervals instead. An 8 hour straight steam would be even better if you had the time.




is it a problem if there are periodic interruptions as i poor in some more (boiled) water
to compensate for evaporation?




No. That is fine. Don't let it run dry :thumbup:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22238635 - 09/14/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

kewl thxz :smile:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22238706 - 09/14/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No problem. Maybe one day I won't be a crustacian anymore :lmafo:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22344352 - 10/07/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Tyndallization apparently works better if you do it in 12-16 hour intervals instead. An 8 hour straight steam would be even better if you had the time.




so i steamed the shit out of some lightly loaded jars for 8 hours straight exactly 1 week ago and no contams yet.
is 7 days long enough to call them clean?


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: DaveyJones6911]
    #22345428 - 10/07/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DaveyJones6911 said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Tyndallization apparently works better if you do it in 12-16 hour intervals instead. An 8 hour straight steam would be even better if you had the time.




so i steamed the shit out of some lightly loaded jars for 8 hours straight exactly 1 week ago and no contams yet.
is 7 days long enough to call them clean?



no......8 hours of steaming was enough to call them clean , waiting 7 days is enough to call you paranoid:thumbup:


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Re: So it's been a little while... [Re: cronicr]
    #22346184 - 10/07/15 03:48 PM (8 years, 3 months ago)

lol awesome :laugh:
this will be very helpful until i get a PC.


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