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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22212274 - 09/09/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you honestly think that would work or even be a good idea? Muslims are all over the world. It's the same if someone decided to bomb vatican city.
Doing this would not just cause militant groups to want to attack us. It'd cause actual governments to want to attack.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Achillita]
#22212295 - 09/09/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Im not sure it would be the same. They practically worship Mohammed and these holy sites, ajd if Alah's most loved places were gone, who knows.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22212311 - 09/09/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Should we also bomb the vatican for being a religious place of some crazy catholic people?
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Achillita]
#22212319 - 09/09/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said:
Do you honestly think that would work or even be a good idea? Muslims are all over the world. It's the same if someone decided to bomb vatican city.
Doing this would not just cause militant groups to want to attack us. It'd cause actual governments to want to attack.
Militant groups will eventually attack anyway. They are militant groups not kiwanas. At least if they are provoked into premature and reckless attack we can easily target them for disposal as they reveal themselves.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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TheBrazilian
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212326 - 09/09/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just don't like the media manipulating images. They went heavy just showing woman and sick little kids. Than when you saw a pan shot it was 80% males... If you aren't low middle class or poor idk if you can relate to a person in England or Europe who opposes bringing more of these people in. 95% of people in England said Multi Culturalism isn't working in a bbc poll.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Achillita]
#22212343 - 09/09/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: Should we also bomb the vatican for being a religious place of some crazy catholic people?
It is not the same thing. What the fick are you talkimg about, because tje Catholic crimes are not, in thetime we are in, nearly as bad.
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212399 - 09/09/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: And from my perspective those figures, while hugely brilliant perhaps, are barbarians in today's world, and represent everything wrong with human nature. To me, your attitude is at best childish and simplistic, at worst, counterproductive and against the greater good of the species 
In the 14th century a Muslim historian named Ibn Khaldun wrote about the pattern of history. Farmers would build irrigation systems supporting villages and towns. Later some warrior would bring these towns under his rule and form a united political entity, like a kingdom or an empire. Then a tribe of nomads would come along and conquer the kingdom, seize all the holdings and settle in their place and further expand the new empire. As time went by the nomads would assimilate and become soft city dwellers. Exactly the kind of people they had conquered and at this point another tribe of nomads would come along and conquer them and take their empire. Conquest, consolidation, expansion, degeneration and conquest, this was the pattern of history.
The anti-war liberal attitude is typical of soft city dwellers who are ripe for conquest. This prevelence among my fellow citizen indicates that we are are a late stage empire and in severe decline. Who will be the new strong man to take western europe and the USA? I do not know. But what is for sure is due to the weakling liberal attitude of the Greek people they will fall like a ripe apple from the slightest breeze, the moment these Muslim invaders (refugees) become a majority.
I could care less about what some 14th century Muslim thought about humanity. If you could enlist and go die in a foreign nation that might have some net benefit for your own country, so think on that.
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma]
#22212423 - 09/09/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: I could care less about what some 14th century Muslim thought about humanity. If you could enlist and go die in a foreign nation that might have some net benefit for your own country, so think on that.
It is the pattern of history. I learned it first while studying history myself and was well explained by my various professors. This 14th century historian but puts it more succinctly. Perhaps you should study history if you want to avoid repeating it. Or if you don't maybe you deserve to be its next chapter. Ignorance of the past will guarantee you are a victim of the future. Have a nice day.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212443 - 09/09/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Except that times change, systems evolve. History has played out certain ways over the last 7 thousand years, that doesn't mean patters are permanent. We have different technologies than we've ever had, and we have far more power to shape our societies and world. Sure human nature is much the same as it always was, but the game is changing and war even now isn't what it was.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma] 1
#22212464 - 09/09/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it os good to know history and not tale the words of wise people sereously, as noone is very wiseand history doesnt really repeat
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma] 1
#22212493 - 09/09/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: Except that times change, systems evolve. History has played out certain ways over the last 7 thousand years, that doesn't mean patters are permanent. We have different technologies than we've ever had, and we have far more power to shape our societies and world. Sure human nature is much the same as it always was, but the game is changing and war even now isn't what it was.
I'll change the subject in order to entertain a hypothetical. I hope you'll enter in to the discussion.
On of the basic principles of history is that geography determines destiny. The British naval tradition and the American frontier and Ocean boundaries...
The European plain has no natural defenses and so it is easily invaded and the territory changes hands over and over. We see this with Polish wars, Russian, and so forth. When Napoleon invaded Russia the only choice Russia had was to continue to fall back into their enourmous and expansive territory and let Napoleon defeat himself. This lack of natural geographical defenses made Russia very vulnerable to invasions over the centuries.
So Russia under the rule of Ivan Czar of all Russians formed a new strategy. For the first time Russia would begin systematic offensive activities to all of its Eastern neighbors. This new strategy was that their best defense was a good offense. And it seemed to work. This is the same strategy carried on to the Soviet Union and explains why they chose to incorporate those Eastern European countries in to the Soviet bloc. Today uncle Vlad (Putin) has set out an identical strategy, of swallowing up these Eastern European countries to use as buffer states and to make their fall back position more secure. This is the same strategy used by Ivan hundreds of years ago and it is based on geography not technology. With all of today's high tech weapons and atomic weapons why it this centuries old strategy still needed for Russian territorial security?
We have two guides to politics. History and geography. To understand geo-politics in the world right now you must deeply understand both and also always ask cui bono, to whose benefit.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212508 - 09/09/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I never said I was ignorant of history, only that I don't think a 14th century Muslim has a perspective as relevant to the modern day as it was to his own time. Big, big things have happened since then. You could look at the industrial/technological revolution as a shift of equal importance to the birth of agriculture. People lived quite differently before they settled down, and to not expect huge changes in the world now is a bit overly simplistic. I'm not saying war isn't going to be a part of humanity for a long time, simply that its becoming less and less necessary
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma]
#22212536 - 09/09/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: I never said I was ignorant of history, only that I don't think a 14th century Muslim has a perspective as relevant to the modern day as it was to his own time. Big, big things have happened since then. You could look at the industrial/technological revolution as a shift of equal importance to the birth of agriculture. People lived quite differently before they settled down, and to not expect huge changes in the world now is a bit overly simplistic. I'm not saying war isn't going to be a part of humanity for a long time, simply that its becoming less and less necessary
Certainly the resourses we fight over have changed. We no longer fight over agricultural areas and their slave farmers but for more for oil and mineral deposits. The pattern however remains the same. And geography still determines national destiny.
Do you care to entertain my hypothetical in the Russian example I typed out above?
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212544 - 09/09/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sorry clicked reply before I read that. What is practical for Russia at this moment is not necessarily what will be practical or beneficial for humanity in the coming decades/centuries. I simply believe your attitude is holding on to old ways that will, while necessary to a degree in the present, ultimately fail our species and hold us back if it is too ingrained. I see that we have either a choice to evolve and maintain our existence, or go out in a gradual, stubborn and bloody struggle over resources.
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212559 - 09/09/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not saying transition will be easy, and certainly there are still things to fight over, but the world isn't locked in a the cold war any longer. America is THE super power. They are a war-based economy at the moment and so conflict in the world is necessary to the arms industry and what not, but that doesn't mean it will remain static. More and more information is available to the masses. If people can be kept dis-empowered and squabbling among themselves, looking always fearfully to 'others', then nothing will change and we will be ruined, and you will be proven right, sort of. That's a future in which no one wins however.
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma]
#22212565 - 09/09/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I might well be way off though
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ezuma]
#22212578 - 09/09/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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War is how our species evolves technologically. Nearly all major advancements including the bronze sword that made the copper sword obsolete are owed to humans killing each other in life and death contests of survival of the fittest and the strongest. We are using computers and chips to type back and forth. We own the computer chip to military generals who demanded small machines to use for missile guidance. Its no different than the bronze sword or the iron sword or the steel sword or the gun. First comes the killing, then comes civilian applications to new technology. So now we've got computers, a space program, and nuclear power plants. All this is thanks to 6000 years of constant warfare (war is evolution and war is human improvement).
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Hobozen


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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212627 - 09/09/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Hobozen]
#22212653 - 09/09/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think god is a mlron, considering that there are much better flowing water bodies out there and evem in the sentance he mentioned. Real Israel looks like shit, and western religion is garbage in all ways. How tje fuck didnt Manchurea beat us to industrianization and stuff
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Ezuma
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Re: Invasion of Greek Island of Lesbos by Syrian Refugees [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22212660 - 09/09/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So far. But for the winning side anyway, war involves less and less loss of life. Its far less about thirst for victory and faith in your skills now than it is about technical developments, shit like drones and missiles. The weak will continue to be prayed upon by us but not indefinitely. I believe that if humanity has any hope for the long term, it will be through technologies originally developed through and for war but taken beyond that, when we evolve ideologically. I mean that's a long way off. But I don't consider that impossible.
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