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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Moral eugenics. 2
#22202038 - 09/07/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So Hitler was on to something with his master race idea. There's no denying it. If we bred the best with the best, we would be far beyond what we are now. Turns out he took the psycho way, which is a shame.
How about moral eugenics? Individuals with good health and high IQs with no history of nothing bad giving their consent to be part of that group of people.
Here's how. Qulaifying females are a year or two from menopause (early 40s). They should have 0 health issues or mental problems, high IQ, good athleticism and aesthetically great bodies
Men: 60 years old, no history of disease, high IQ athleticism and good mental health, good bodies. Take their sperm, put it in the females bellies. With everyone's consent of course
Why so old? Because if you have a 60 year old man and a 40 year old woman with no health issues, you practically guarantee that the kid won't have health issues in his youth. If for example I have a kid at 20 and die from a heart attack at 25, then my kid has more chances of dying n his twenties.
We have a sufficient amount of people to get quite a few million people to do this without risk of inbreeding. Sure it's not gonna be 100%. But after doing that for a few generation, you'll come to see that people are getting stronger, smarter, healthier and better looking.
And by the way. You won't be picked. The bar is set at Tom Brady. Anything below that in term of body and smarts disqualifies you. So, I'm sorry, but you're not part of the 1% I'm looking for.
We would streghten the human species by a lot don't you think?
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Sekutma
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202051 - 09/07/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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One could argue that diversity is our races greatest strength. It provides the maximum coverage of design space. If you would like me to expand I would be happy too but it will be a long one.
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FlyOnTheWall
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202052 - 09/07/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Sekutma]
#22202066 - 09/07/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sekutma said: One could argue that diversity is our races greatest strength. It provides the maximum coverage of design space. If you would like me to expand I would be happy too but it will be a long one.
Yeah man, /thread.
Eugenics shows a real lack in understanding biology.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Quote:
FlyOnTheWall said: Pregnancy Complications in Older Mothers
You abort those who will fail. Crucial part of eugenics.
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Sekutma
Stranger
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
Sekutma said: One could argue that diversity is our races greatest strength. It provides the maximum coverage of design space. If you would like me to expand I would be happy too but it will be a long one.
Yeah man, /thread.
Eugenics shows a real lack in understanding biology.
You saying make a thread? There is one? Or just saying I have a good point lol
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202089 - 09/07/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Patlal, seriously, wtf 
Quote:
How about moral eugenics?
What's next, moral genocide?
Quote:
Take their sperm, put it in the females bellies. With everyone's consent of course
Consenting people are already free to breed all they want.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202091 - 09/07/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202102 - 09/07/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Did I asy I wanted to murder people?
All I said is that the best should breed with the best. Nothing horrible is happening here. They could as well have met on the street. Plus if you have consent, it's even better.
I'm not saying to sterilize everybody that don't qualify. I'm just saying, pick the best and breed em then mix them in the general population.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koods]
#22202108 - 09/07/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
True. There would be too many pro athlete, geniuses and super models
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D.M.T
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koods]
#22202112 - 09/07/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
Source?
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koods]
#22202118 - 09/07/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sekutma said:
You saying make a thread? There is one? Or just saying I have a good point lol
I'm saying your point was so good, the discussion is done as far as I'm concerned 
Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
Exactly. Many, many unintended consequences.
Quote:
D.M.T said: Source?
Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.
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Edited by Turtletotem (09/07/15 01:25 PM)
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Take the TomBrady's of this world and breed them with the Emma Watson's of this world, see what happens...
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202130 - 09/07/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Take the TomBrady's of this world and breed put his seed in the Emma Watson's of this world, see what happens...
My guess would be:
 quaaaaaaaid.... start te reactoooooor!
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Quote:
Turtletotem said: Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.
My dogs came out exactly the way I intended when I bred them.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202136 - 09/07/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I sorta agree something like this might be beneficial. But it seems this idea will always be among the minority of the population
I think we should aim to have equal childhoods, so all kids have the opportunity to be healthy and not abused
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: D.M.T]
#22202146 - 09/07/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said: Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.
My dogs came out exactly the way I intended when I bred them.
Mine too!
 Good boys.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said: Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.
My dogs came out exactly the way I intended when I bred them.
Mine too!
 Good boys.
All I can think off right now is that the girl could put peanut butter on both her pussy and asshole and have a good time.
Why was that the first thing I thought off?
Clearly I dont qualify for the eugenics
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202155 - 09/07/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Did I asy I wanted to murder people?
All I said is that the best should breed with the best. Nothing horrible is happening here. They could as well have met on the street. Plus if you have consent, it's even better.
I'm not saying to sterilize everybody that don't qualify. I'm just saying, pick the best and breed em then mix them in the general population.
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shellzenone
Zen



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That would leave for no room at the bottom of our social pyramid. I honestly doubt people with High IQs, athletically fit, Etc. will want to do coal mining or construction, or any of those hard jobs. Sadly, Im starting to see that this society is based on the exploitation of the weaker people.
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shellzenone
Zen



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Besides, the elite already do this under our noses.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202166 - 09/07/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: All I can think off right now is that the girl could put peanut butter on both her pussy and asshole and have a good time.
Why was that the first thing I thought off?
Clearly I dont qualify for the eugenics
Me neither, let's post photo's of cool mutants instead.
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D.M.T
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said: Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.
My dogs came out exactly the way I intended when I bred them.
Mine too!
 Good boys.
I wanted dogs that can dig, so I bred dogs that dig. Guess what they do? They dig.
If you have any actual evidence eugenics is bad then show it, or quit talking out of your ass.
What's the unintended consequences of the tomatoes I bred for hot weather? I'm getting less blossom loss and bigger yields than ever.
Where's the fault in the strains exceeding 30% THC because of their genetics? All I see is shit getting better because of human ingenuity. We fucking invented bananas..
Breeding good traits with good traits gives you something with those good traits. It's a fact.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Quote:
shellzenone said: Besides, the elite already do this under our noses.
Ah yes, because the elite are breeding like rabbits.
Quote:
Apart from Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland and Norway), Portugal and Malta, in general, women with low education had a higher TFR between 2007 and 2011. Differentials reached a level as high as 2.2 live births per woman (Slovakia, 2009).
(source)
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: D.M.T]
#22202193 - 09/07/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: What's the unintended consequences of the tomatoes I bred for hot weather?
So this was your doing???!!!!

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Sekutma
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
Sekutma said:
You saying make a thread? There is one? Or just saying I have a good point lol
I'm saying your point was so good, the discussion is done as far as I'm concerned 
Thanks! I really appreciate that! As an engineer design space is a very important topic. Evolution is commonly misunderstood. People have been lead to believe that evolution is design driven. Which is why eugenics might seem like a intelligent idea. Even Darwin said years after he published "origin of species" he regrets calling it "natural selection". It implies that the greatest species always wins aka intelligent evolution trumps all else.
This couldn't be further from the truth. Evolution is completely random caused by radiation from the sun. Those traits that randomly evolve and help that species will be the ones that get carried on. Just having a evolutionary advantage doesn't mean you win out though. Like if I put you in a cage with 20 hungry bears I don't see you talking them out of eating you. So in that situation the greater species would not win out and continue lineage.
I see the op point but I think it would be more effective to just educate the race then genetically alter the species for higher intelligence. Meme is the socialized equivalent of gene without requiring many generations to change. You know that saying you can't change the world? Complete lie... It could change in one day if we would let it. Too many people are convinced it can't change and because of that it won't...
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Beanhead
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I certainly like the idea. Dysgenic fertility is a real threat to a species and I don't find it absurd for trying to make an effort to rid the world of inheritable diseases and try to negate influences that have an impact on said inheritable factors... I can perfectly imagine people want to have healthy children.
Eugenics has had so many meanings through all the years, I see it as trying to acquire positive traits into the gene pool. If i'm still not clear enough...
Negative eugenics: Forced anticonception, sterilization of certain population groups due to social ideas.
Positive eugenics: I feel if we want to implent a positive eugenics policy a certain reward is coupled with procreation. eg: Topsporters or parents with a high IQ are rewarded through bonuses and so these people are stimulated to put out more children and thus are positively influencing the gene pool. Everyone can still procreate as much as they want if you still feel this is discrimination then so be it but if you have nothing to contribute don't expect a reward yep I want to create the biological lottery. I think another good example is the spermbank that got developed in 1980 by Robert Graham for Nobel Prize winners and other scientists.
i'm aware that the positive eugenics still pose some problems as in: Which inheritable factors improve the human race? & Whom has the authority to say what is 'good' or 'bad' ? ^If we don't start we'll never know though. ^Would be cool if we could vote as a species/society on what is considered good / bad.
On average we see about three mutations in the humanbody at birth; some are visible, some you may never realize. Scientists have found that identical twins separated at birth and raised apart are almost identical in IQ, despite the fact that they had totally different environments. Remarkably, twins reared apart are as similar as identical twins reared together by the time they're adults. They also resemble one another strikingly in their mannerisms, the way they laugh, their likes and dislikes, phobias, temperament, sexual preference, educational achievement, income, conscientiousness, musical ability, sense of humor, whether they're criminals or law-abiding, and pretty much everything else that's ever been tested, even traits as peculiar as which vegetables they refuse to eat (Bouchard, 1993).
The primacy of genes is likewise demonstrated by adoption studies. Adopted children's IQs resemble those of their biological parents far more closely than they resemble those of their adoptive parents, who essentially provided them with their environments from the time of birth onwards. When adopted children are grown, there's no virtually resemblance between their IQs and those of their adoptive parents (Loehlin, Willerman, and Horn, 1987).
Doing the proper research towards genes is widening the options for a life that is fair to the child.
what if your adopted child has a higher IQ then you do? You raise him but can't answer all his questions, thus not furfilling the childs mental capacity. What if the child is very emotional and gets overstimulated? You want to help and alleviate the misery but you can't relate. What if the psychomotor is very outstanding, always being energetic and some behaviors seemingly unexplainable, frequently incomprehensible, and often bizarre to you. Do you shun/call out?
On paper all seemingly good qualities but I can't furfill (every) need of high intelligence. Nor relate to melodrama nor understand why he's still so tweaked after we went swimming already.
In reality parents cope with this in any way possible and I understand you want to give your child the best (s)he deserves (and more) despite any shortcomings or quirks. Eugenics gives insight.
If I could implent infrared, ... vision for my eyes I would. I wish we had doctors which could control robotic arms with their brain for surgical precision. Ubermensch? I dislike eugenics based on superiority through racial essentialism. 
Some africans are immune to HIV How about the world's densest bones? People of the Moken tribe see more clearly underwater.
Are these people superior to others? Entirely situational. What's wrong about trying to improve the human race?
Eugenics: Stemcells/organ growing, Human-testing, 1-child policy, long standing workers with a declaration to refuse having children get the same premium as a family head (mother, father, child). Within that same clause you are denied this premium if you have a history of drug-abuse, violence or criminal records (to name a few).
Good stuff.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:47 PM)
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202225 - 09/07/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you're planning a master race, why leave things to any sort of genetic chance? You can still get undesired recessive traits with interbreeding of the best of the best, as well as genetic mutations that happen to everyone regularly. I say if you want a master race, gather all these high-IQ best-of-the-best people 'round to create the perfect human from scratch. All phenotypes are expressed as dominant, no recessive genes, and there you go.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
#22202229 - 09/07/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stemcells/organ growing, Human-testing, 1-child policy, long standing workers with a declaration to refuse having children get the same premium as a family head (mother, father, child). Within that same clause you are denied this premium if you have a history of drug-abuse, child neglect, violence or criminal records (to name a few).
None of those are examples of eugenics. The only viable example would be abortion for medical reasons such as carrying the BRCA gene or Down syndrom. I can get behind that. Otherwise...jesus man, think the fuck a little deeper.
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Beanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202235 - 09/07/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lemme win the biological lottery Koraks 
good point.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:48 PM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
#22202243 - 09/07/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Too late, you already got a mediocre ticket and I'm good friends with the organization anyway.
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Acaterpillar
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
#22202247 - 09/07/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Eugenics is already in place.
It's called fast food and television.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Beanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202253 - 09/07/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Too late, you already got a mediocre ticket and I'm good friends with the organization anyway.
Yeah I know that's the sad reality.
Atom bombs vs nuclear power is another good example of why we are a shitty species xD
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:50 PM)
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




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Why would a drug user be anti-fast food? Don't we all gather on common ground that what we put in our bodies is our own choice, because we are free to do that?
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



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It was a joke. Eugenics is a ridiculous idea. Patlal is a silly silly man.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Quote:
Acaterpillar said: It was a joke. Eugenics is a ridiculous idea. Patlal is a silly silly man.
Well somebody is not making the list...
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Quote:
Acaterpillar said: It was a joke. Eugenics is a ridiculous idea. Patlal is a silly silly man.
Yeah, you've all been had by Patlal. We could have had a cool mutant thread, but no.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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You're not telling me he was trolling, are you? I would be super duper angry you know.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202360 - 09/07/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: You're not telling me he was trolling, are you? I would be super duper angry you know.
Nah, I was trolling. Sorry. It's just I don't respect eugenics. And nobody else posted cool mutants
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: And nobody else posted cool mutants 
Sorry about that. The cats are asleep at the moment and I always hate to wake them up as I'm pointing a camera at them. They tend to melt the plastic parts of the camera as well as my eyebrows as they yawn.
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D.M.T
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I don't see anyone posting any good reasons to be against eugenics.
'Uhh well there's unintended consequences'.. Like what?
You know there's a shit load of unintended consequences with the normal way of breeding too.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202378 - 09/07/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said: And nobody else posted cool mutants 
Sorry about that. The cats are asleep at the moment and I always hate to wake them up as I'm pointing a camera at them. They tend to melt the plastic parts of the camera as well as my eyebrows as they yawn.
That sounds awesome.
Quote:
D.M.T said: I don't see anyone posting any good reasons to be against eugenics.
'Uhh well there's unintended consequences'.. Like what?
You know there's a shit load of unintended consequences with the normal way of breeding too.
Look, mate, we can debate all night, but when it comes down to it, you want the government to fuck with fucking? For real? Not me, man.
Do you have any cool mutant pictures, by the way?
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Edited by Turtletotem (09/07/15 02:15 PM)
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202403 - 09/07/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Acaterpillar said: It was a joke. Eugenics is a ridiculous idea. Patlal is a silly silly man.
Well somebody is not making the list...
Considering the idiotic statements and ideas you share here, I doubt you would either.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
koraks said: You're not telling me he was trolling, are you? I would be super duper angry you know.
Nah, I was trolling. Sorry. It's just I don't respect eugenics. And nobody else posted cool mutants 
Yes I did
LRP5 mutation is cool too
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 02:23 PM)
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Beanhead
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shellzenone said: That would leave for no room at the bottom of our social pyramid. I honestly doubt people with High IQs, athletically fit, Etc. will want to do coal mining or construction, or any of those hard jobs. Sadly, Im starting to see that this society is based on the exploitation of the weaker people.
Sucks for them, lets say you are athletically fit, have above average eyes who see through coal dust or your lungs somehow clean up that dust supahfast (yes ridiculous examples)... Welcome to coal mining.
Psycho pass had the idea right albeit it was a bit creepy at times:
A plethora of job-prospects which are in tune to your biological markers / mental state but you don't have to take all jobs. You are excluded from some though. Same way we do it now: people with disabilities aren't allowed the same jobs.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 02:27 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Quote:
shellzenone said: That would leave for no room at the bottom of our social pyramid. I honestly doubt people with High IQs, athletically fit, Etc. will want to do coal mining or construction, or any of those hard jobs. Sadly, Im starting to see that this society is based on the exploitation of the weaker people.
It does.
You have the gene responsible for fast metabolism. Bam you win^ ^ for slow metabolism ^ muscle growth ^ eye sight ^ immune to 'x' disease ^ MOSQUITOS DONT BITE YOU AND THERES A GENE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ( ) ...
list is endless but we don't study it, nor, reward it.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 02:29 PM)
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: D.M.T]
#22202442 - 09/07/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: I don't see anyone posting any good reasons to be against eugenics.
'Uhh well there's unintended consequences'.. Like what?
You know there's a shit load of unintended consequences with the normal way of breeding too.
Well... As much as I support the science. "unintended consequences" might aswell mean end of the race with our limited knowledge so there should be real and concise parameters for scientists before we go all Nazishit.
Or the Japanese freakazoids which were even worse.
Also biodiversity is a fundamental principle of life on our planet. It allows life to adapt to change. Then again we're so far down the line with tinkering with nature...
To quote
Quote:
Asante said: I'm against eugenics for the reason you stated, we have nowhere near sufficient data to warrant driving certain genes into extinction.
Take sickle cell anemia. It can lead to horrid disease, but saves many lives because of reduced susceptibility vs malaria. So what do we do? Remove the sickle cell gene worldwide and accept increased malaria deaths? REmove them only in temerate regions but at the same time put the offsprining well into the future at risk when they move to the tropics? Or just let it be? If we remove all instances of a gene its gone 500,000 years from now too. Maybe that prevents SCA genes mutating into a harmless ful immunity vs malaria, and maybe by that time malaria is everywhere.
Why my preoccupation with malaria? Because if you take all humans who ever lived then HALF died of malaria. Half. And Sickle Cell is a human mutation that attempts to address that by facilitating something that may evolve into immunity.
And dont forget the Nazi Aryan breeding program. The Nazies gathered pure Aryans by their definition and let them breed Superaryans. To their horror,almost all those babies had horrendous birth defects. Turns out the Nazi ideal of Aryanism is something that needs to be bred OUT, not IN, for health of the species.
The breeding programs failed due to their malicious intent and lack of knowledge. It's not a good foundation but a lot of our surgical & medicinal breakthroughs came from the horrors from world wars and their insane scientists.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 02:37 PM)
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Turtletotem
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202443 - 09/07/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
336 said: this

Now you´re getting it!
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
#22202501 - 09/07/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Beanhead said: a lot of our surgical & medicinal breakthroughs came from the horrors from world wars and their insane scientists.
Hardly. They did help in finding out how to inflict horrible pain, but they didn't advance science very much. We'd have been better off without those experiments.
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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power


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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22202509 - 09/07/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
We would streghten the human species by a lot don't you think?
People get these ideas when they drink a lot.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Quote:
Love_spirit said:
Quote:
We would streghten the human species by a lot don't you think?
People get these ideas when they drink a lot.
 Busted, Patlal!
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koods]
#22202538 - 09/07/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
like that time that the Lenape potato was developed by the USDA, Penn State University and Wise while trying to make a better spud for the chip market only what they developed was a highly toxic tater
and people want to bash genetic engineering when it's the path to super humans
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Turtletotem
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
like that time that the Lenape potato was developed by the USDA, Penn State University and Wise while trying to make a better spud for the chip market only what they developed was a highly toxic tater
What, seriously?!
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
koods said: When you start selectively breeding for specific traits, there are always unintended consequences.
like that time that the Lenape potato was developed by the USDA, Penn State University and Wise while trying to make a better spud for the chip market only what they developed was a highly toxic tater
What, seriously?!

yes, seriously
http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-case-of-the-poison-potato.html
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
yes, seriously
http://www.tested.com/science/weird/454414-dangerous-genetically-modified-potato/
 This is awesome! I love it when all the hubris comes crashing down and creates a disaster.
I count this as you posting a Cool Mutant, by the way. I bet this aproval from me is making you feel real good about now. Better post more Cool Mutants!
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Beanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22202603 - 09/07/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Beanhead said: a lot of our surgical & medicinal breakthroughs came from the horrors from world wars and their insane scientists.
Hardly. They did help in finding out how to inflict horrible pain, but they didn't advance science very much. We'd have been better off without those experiments.
Indeed. Manhattan Project - Military = Utopia.

oh well Malicious intent ruins everything.
Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 03:13 PM)
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Quote:
Acaterpillar said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Acaterpillar said: It was a joke. Eugenics is a ridiculous idea. Patlal is a silly silly man.
Well somebody is not making the list...
Considering the idiotic statements and ideas you share here, I doubt you would either. 

Then again. I'm no athlete, I've have health issues, I have mental issues and haven't invented shit. Clearly, I don't make the list. No Emma Watson for me...
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Prisoner#1
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you see it as a failure and I see it as a success because it heavily shaped the USDA policy on how hybrids and genetically modified crops are treated and tested until approval for the market. before this they werent really considering just how lethal a normally edible vegetable can be especially when this very sort of plant development has been going on since the start of agriculture, but then it also gives you something to think about, how many people have directly died as a result of fucking around with selective breeding
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Turtletotem
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: you see it as a failure and I see it as a success because it heavily shaped the USDA policy on how hybrids and genetically modified crops are treated and tested until approval for the market. before this they werent really considering just how lethal a normally edible vegetable can be especially when this very sort of plant development has been going on since the start of agriculture, but then it also gives you something to think about, how many people have directly died as a result of fucking around with selective breeding
Interesting way of looking at it. You're not wrong.
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Beanhead
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GMO's r bad k
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Acaterpillar
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22203558 - 09/07/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
336 said: I vote we just go all Spartan style with it; discard those weak bitches that get born. lol Bring abortion to a whole new level. lol

Should we also practice Pederasty like that Spartans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Mescalean
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Eugenics works plain and simple. Look at slavery. If you deny what we did with genetic's in the 1700's is effecting them today you live in a fantasy world.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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It works with every animal we breed. We are animals, why wouldn't it work on us?
Mate the studs with the goddesses an we'll get something good out of it.
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Acaterpillar
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Quote:
Mescalean said: Eugenics works plain and simple. Look at slavery. If you deny what we did with genetic's in the 1700's is effecting them today you live in a fantasy world.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Stonehenge
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Quote:
Mescalean said: Eugenics works plain and simple. Look at slavery. If you deny what we did with genetic's in the 1700's is effecting them today you live in a fantasy world.
Maybe that's why negroes are so good at physical things today? We bred them for strength and not for thinking ability.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Acaterpillar
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Jesus fucking christ. It seems like some people in here have never spoken with a black person of the same socioeconomic class.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Mescalean
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Mescalean said: Eugenics works plain and simple. Look at slavery. If you deny what we did with genetic's in the 1700's is effecting them today you live in a fantasy world.
Maybe that's why negroes are so good at physical things today? We bred them for strength and not for thinking ability.
I don't get where the thinking ability but came from as I have quite a few intelligent, but yes. We bred the strongest with the strongest to make work more efficient.
Why do people get so touchy with genes? Everyones got something up with their gene pool now adays. I got blessed outside wise, inside I have a huge risk of heart attack cancer of various types and stroke. also Alzheimer and various dormant genes for mental illness such as depression and schizophrenia. I just got lucky and none were activated in me. Maybe depression a but and who knows about cancer we'll see. My main thing is is it morally responsible to pass on those shitty genes just because we have an instinct to produce some squishy little copy of us.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


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>We bred the strongest with the strongest to make work more efficient.
Strong back and weak mind = perfect worker. Not saying all blacks are like that, some are smart but that is how they bred them.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Acaterpillar
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I have nothing against speaking about genes, but people here seem unable to differentiate between what is genetically inherited and conditionally inherited.
Inbreeding will hinder genes; but in slavery in breeding was not common. You could say the Southern slave masters were more often the dumb ones.
Often intelligence is conditional, which is why I mention socioeconomics.
Maybe they are bigger and stronger from how they bred, but there is a strong argument against that as well. They certainly were no less intelligent. They simply weren't educated.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Stonehenge
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>Often intelligence is conditional
Intelligence is inherited, the development of it depends on other factors like going to school and studying hard. But you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear. Someone without intelligence will be a dullard no matter how long they sit in class.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


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Quote:
Acaterpillar said: I have nothing against speaking about genes, but people here seem unable to differentiate between what is genetically inherited and conditionally inherited.
Inbreeding will hinder genes; but in slavery in breeding was not common. You could say the Southern slave masters were more often the dumb ones.
Often intelligence is conditional, which is why I mention socioeconomics.
Maybe they are bigger and stronger from how they bred, but there is a strong argument against that as well. They certainly were no less intelligent. They simply weren't educated.
Okay see i'm speaking from a purely "physical ability" standpoint, how the body functions health and ability wise. Which imo the whole breeding the strongest with the strongest works but as you said in breeding fucks things up. This happens with MJ plants quite alot in the medical industry though. Very frustrating getting a hermed seed with shit genes that decides to knock up every plant around it. We need to mix more imo. spread the good genes from each group would be ideal, not this "single master race" idea
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Turtletotem
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This thread is one big
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22205026 - 09/07/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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A Brave New World
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Quote:
nicechrisman said: A Brave New World
I would never play with Epsilons.
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koods
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22206116 - 09/08/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: It works with every animal we breed. We are animals, why wouldn't it work on us?
Mate the studs with the goddesses an we'll get something good out of it.
What we do with animals is very different becasue with animals we breed siblings and parents. This greatly accelerates changes in phenotypes,
--------------------
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lillFish
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koods]
#22206180 - 09/08/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I found myself contemplating this same thing except with athletes. I have wondered if something was wrong with me for wanting to control that type of thing. Some people should not be allowed to breed with their shit genetics.
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chicksgrowtoo


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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22206419 - 09/08/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I only read the op so I apologize if this has already been mentioned but older mothers are at a higher risk of carrying babies with genetic disorders such as downs after age 35. Children of older fathers are more likely to have mental illnesses like schizophrenia and autism also.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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It is one of the fatal flaws of the plan that surprisingly wasn't mentioned before. Which illustrates the overall quality of this thread.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22206492 - 09/08/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It was mentioned. You want the mother to be under 25 and the father under about 45.
People are such fools and reject great ideas out of hand, all someone has to do is mention hitler and they are against it. Idiots and morons should not breed, nor people with major genetic flaws. People should need a license to have kids like a license to drive. Either can have major consequences and if society is expected to take care of the kid they should put some rules in place. Adopt if you have to have a brat.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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SurReality
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: It was mentioned. You want the mother to be under 25 and the father under about 45.
People are such fools and reject great ideas out of hand, all someone has to do is mention hitler and they are against it. Idiots and morons should not breed, nor people with major genetic flaws. People should need a license to have kids like a license to drive. Either can have major consequences and if society is expected to take care of the kid they should put some rules in place. Adopt if you have to have a brat.
i totally agree with this. so much that i fit into the category of a genetic flaw (that is hereditary, passed on to me and something i would pass on) and i don't feel i have a right to breed...
idk if people are just emotionally selfish to procreate with genetic problems, and other problems that will impact they offspring (such as financial or political/local laws)
but in all honesty i'm guessing i costed nearly a million dollars just to be born and to survive, and i'm too logically selfish to take on a cost like that let alone the cost of a healthy child.
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ServantOfBaphomet
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Patlal
might wanna stay off the pipe for a few days.
lol
-------------------- Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law Love is the Law. Love under Will
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SurReality
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i like how most of the opposing views are just taking personal jabs rather than intelligent responses.
really seems to show what happens when eugenics isn't taken seriously.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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So someone explain how eugenics is a good idea objectively speaking. And I won't be fooled by the following arguments: * It will improve the human race: this assumes that there's an objective measure of how good we are. Anyone with the faintest idea about evolution knows that there is no such thing as a good or better species. * it will reduce human suffering: there will always be ways in which humans suffer, including from bad health (accidents, violence) * it is better for the environment: consider how the human species relates to the rest of nature (it's not disjunct from it) and also consider the possibility that genetic improvements (which are questionable; see above) to our species doesn't imply we'll become more focused on sustainability.
Finally, also consider that one of the major advances of western society is the freedom to pursue one's happiness and that having children is for most people the most important source of happiness in their lives.
Any discussion about eugics has to come to the point where its proponents have to face the fact that their idea involves severely limiting the options and freedom of choice of a large part of the population. Any concept of eugenics that doesn't involve this lacks a selection mechanism that puts it outside the realm of eugenics (as the original proposal in the op), as it won't result in an improvement (see above) of the gene pool.
Now go ahead and make an intelligent argument for it. I'm all ears. But I'd be surprised if you managed to not slide down a very slippery ethical slope very quickly indeed.
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SurReality
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22207315 - 09/08/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I for one don't support eugenics as op describes. But I think eugenics is a way to prevent child abuse in general.
I think one simple rule society should consider is evaluating the psychology of any authoritative figure, especially parents.
If this means some people won't be happy, I think is fucked to cater to the happiness of an adult at the expense of the physical and mental health, maybe even happiness, of their children.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
#22207357 - 09/08/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: So Hitler was on to something with his master race idea. There's no denying it. If we bred the best with the best, we would be far beyond what we are now. Turns out he took the psycho way, which is a shame.
How about moral eugenics? Individuals with good health and high IQs with no history of nothing bad giving their consent to be part of that group of people.
Here's how. Qulaifying females are a year or two from menopause (early 40s). They should have 0 health issues or mental problems, high IQ, good athleticism and aesthetically great bodies
Men: 60 years old, no history of disease, high IQ athleticism and good mental health, good bodies. Take their sperm, put it in the females bellies. With everyone's consent of course
Why so old? Because if you have a 60 year old man and a 40 year old woman with no health issues, you practically guarantee that the kid won't have health issues in his youth. If for example I have a kid at 20 and die from a heart attack at 25, then my kid has more chances of dying n his twenties.
We have a sufficient amount of people to get quite a few million people to do this without risk of inbreeding. Sure it's not gonna be 100%. But after doing that for a few generation, you'll come to see that people are getting stronger, smarter, healthier and better looking.
And by the way. You won't be picked. The bar is set at Tom Brady. Anything below that in term of body and smarts disqualifies you. So, I'm sorry, but you're not part of the 1% I'm looking for.
We would streghten the human species by a lot don't you think?
Its immoral to not have eugenics. Forcing hereditary diseases and low IQs on children is wrong. Eugenics is the greatest level of good morality.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Quote:
SurReality said: I think one simple rule society should consider is evaluating the psychology of any authoritative figure, especially parents.
That's not eugenics. It's a policy that would control who has the right to have children based on something other than their genetics. There's pros and cons to it, but it's not part of a debate on eugenics.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22207452 - 09/08/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't you think intentionally passing on genes that will cause life long health issues will fail a psych evaluation?
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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A psychological evaluation won't be specific in the genetic traits it will allow to be passed on and it will also block many with perfectly 'good' genetics from procreating due to other issues. Nature vs. nurture and all that. Argue all you want, but your policy (while it certainly has a lot going for it) isn't a good example of eugenics.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22207499 - 09/08/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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alright yea thanks. i understand, i didn't completely see eugenics as only controlling genes but more of a birth control.
Also if you have outstanding genes but not capable to be a good parent I think it would be best to be influenced to adopt your children...
Edited by SurReality (09/08/15 02:17 PM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Ah, so a simple misunderstanding. These things happen!
Funny thing, deciding if kids are better of being placed in a foster family is the job of my gf's father. It's a huge dilemma as even in cases where the kids own parents are pretty shitty, it's generally even worse for a kid to grow up in a foster home.
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SurReality
PsychAdemic


Registered: 12/21/06
Posts: 11,808
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
#22207805 - 09/08/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea I assumed that actually. Obviously that would need to change before encouraging adoption.
Actually that is my main argument for adoption not being a viable option to abortion. I actually turned several pro-life people to pro-choice in a high school debate with that point alone.
-------------------- ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary) PodCast
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