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Offlineshellzenone
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: shellzenone]
    #22202165 - 09/07/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Besides, the elite already do this under our noses.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
    #22202166 - 09/07/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
All I can think off right now is that the girl could put peanut butter on both her pussy and asshole and have a good time.

Why was that the first thing I thought off?

Clearly I dont qualify for the eugenics




Me neither, let's post photo's of cool mutants instead.




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OfflineD.M.T
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Registered: 10/31/09
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22202184 - 09/07/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

D.M.T said:
Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Every animal we've bred to bring out certain desired traits, ever.




My dogs came out exactly the way I intended when I bred them.




Mine too!


Good boys.




I wanted dogs that can dig, so I bred dogs that dig. Guess what they do? They dig.

If you have any actual evidence eugenics is bad then show it, or quit talking out of your ass.

What's the unintended consequences of the tomatoes I bred for hot weather? I'm getting less blossom loss and bigger yields than ever.

Where's the fault in the strains exceeding 30% THC because of their genetics? All I see is shit getting better because of human ingenuity. We fucking invented bananas..

Breeding good traits with good traits gives you something with those good traits. It's a fact.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: shellzenone]
    #22202190 - 09/07/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shellzenone said:
Besides, the elite already do this under our noses.



Ah yes, because the elite are breeding like rabbits.

Quote:

Apart from Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland and Norway), Portugal and Malta, in general, women with low education had a higher TFR between 2007 and 2011. Differentials reached a level as high as 2.2 live births per woman (Slovakia, 2009).



(source)


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: D.M.T]
    #22202193 - 09/07/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
What's the unintended consequences of the tomatoes I bred for hot weather?




So this was your doing???!!!!
:mad:



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OfflineSekutma
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Turtletotem] * 1
    #22202201 - 09/07/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
Quote:

Sekutma said:




You saying make a thread? There is one? Or just saying I have a good point lol




I'm saying your point was so good, the discussion is done as far as I'm concerned :smile:





Thanks! I really appreciate that! As an engineer design space is a very important topic.  Evolution is commonly misunderstood. People have been lead to believe that evolution is design driven.  Which is why eugenics might seem like a intelligent idea. Even Darwin said years after he published "origin of species" he regrets calling it "natural selection". It implies that the greatest species always wins aka intelligent evolution trumps all else.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Evolution is completely random caused by radiation from the sun. Those traits that randomly evolve and help that species will be the ones that get carried on.  Just having a evolutionary advantage doesn't mean you win out though. Like if I put you in a cage with 20 hungry bears I don't see you talking them out of eating you.  So in that situation the greater species would not win out and continue lineage.

I see the op point but I think it would be more effective to just educate the race then genetically alter the species for higher intelligence. Meme is the socialized equivalent of gene without requiring many generations to change.  You know that saying you can't change the world? Complete  lie... It could change in one day if we would let it. Too many people are convinced it can't change and because of that it won't...


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: shellzenone]
    #22202209 - 09/07/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I certainly like the idea. Dysgenic fertility is a real threat to a species and I don't find it absurd for trying to make an effort to rid the world of inheritable diseases and try to negate influences that have an impact on said inheritable factors... I can perfectly imagine people want to have healthy children.

Eugenics has had so many meanings through all the years, I see it as trying to acquire positive traits into the gene pool.
If i'm still not clear enough...

Negative eugenics: Forced anticonception, sterilization of certain population groups due to social ideas.

Positive eugenics: I feel if we want to implent a positive eugenics policy a certain reward is coupled with procreation. eg: Topsporters or parents with a high IQ are rewarded through bonuses and so these people are stimulated to put out more children and thus are positively influencing the gene pool. Everyone can still procreate as much as they want if you still feel this is discrimination then so be it but if you have nothing to contribute don't expect a reward :shrug: yep I want to create the biological lottery. I think another good example is the spermbank that got developed in 1980 by Robert Graham for Nobel Prize winners and other scientists.

i'm aware that the positive eugenics still pose some problems as in: Which inheritable factors improve the human race? & Whom has the authority to say what is 'good' or 'bad' ?
^If we don't start we'll never know though.
^Would be cool if we could vote as a species/society on what is considered good / bad.

On average we see about three mutations in the humanbody at birth; some are visible, some you may never realize. Scientists have found that identical twins separated at birth and raised apart are almost identical in IQ, despite the fact that they had totally different environments. Remarkably, twins reared apart are as similar as identical twins reared together by the time they're adults. They also resemble one another strikingly in their mannerisms, the way they laugh, their likes and dislikes, phobias, temperament, sexual preference, educational achievement, income, conscientiousness, musical ability, sense of humor, whether they're criminals or law-abiding, and pretty much everything else that's ever been tested, even traits as peculiar as which vegetables they refuse to eat (Bouchard, 1993).

The primacy of genes is likewise demonstrated by adoption studies. Adopted children's IQs resemble those of their biological parents far more closely than they resemble those of their adoptive parents, who essentially provided them with their environments from the time of birth onwards. When adopted children are grown, there's no virtually resemblance between their IQs and those of their adoptive parents (Loehlin, Willerman, and Horn, 1987).

Doing the proper research towards genes is widening the options for a life that is fair to the child.

what if your adopted child has a higher IQ then you do? You raise him but can't answer all his questions, thus not furfilling the childs mental capacity.
What if the child is very emotional and gets overstimulated? You want to help and alleviate the misery but you can't relate.
What if the psychomotor is very outstanding, always being energetic and some behaviors seemingly unexplainable, frequently incomprehensible, and often bizarre to you. Do you shun/call out?

On paper all seemingly good qualities but I can't furfill (every) need of high intelligence. Nor relate to melodrama nor understand why he's still so tweaked after we went swimming already.

In reality parents cope with this in any way possible and I understand you want to give your child the best (s)he deserves (and more) despite any shortcomings or quirks.
Eugenics gives insight.

If I could implent infrared, ... vision for my eyes I would.
I wish we had doctors which could control robotic arms with their brain for surgical precision.
Ubermensch? I dislike eugenics based on superiority through racial essentialism.  :lol:

Some africans are immune to HIV
How about the world's densest bones?
People of the Moken tribe see more clearly underwater.

Are these people superior to others? Entirely situational.
What's wrong about trying to improve the human race?

Eugenics:
Stemcells/organ growing, Human-testing, 1-child policy, long standing workers with a declaration to refuse having children get the same premium as a family head (mother, father, child). Within that same clause you are denied this premium if you have a history of drug-abuse, violence or criminal records (to name a few).

Good stuff.


Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:47 PM)


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Patlal]
    #22202225 - 09/07/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you're planning a master race, why leave things to any sort of genetic chance?  You can still get undesired recessive traits with interbreeding of the best of the best, as well as genetic mutations that happen to everyone regularly.
I say if you want a master race, gather all these high-IQ best-of-the-best people 'round to create the perfect human from scratch.  All phenotypes are expressed as dominant, no recessive genes, and there you go.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
    #22202229 - 09/07/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stemcells/organ growing, Human-testing, 1-child policy, long standing workers with a declaration to refuse having children get the same premium as a family head (mother, father, child). Within that same clause you are denied this premium if you have a history of drug-abuse, child neglect, violence or criminal records (to name a few).



None of those are examples of eugenics. The only viable example would be abortion for medical reasons such as carrying the BRCA gene or Down syndrom. I can get behind that. Otherwise...jesus man, think the fuck a little deeper.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
    #22202235 - 09/07/15 01:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lemme win the biological lottery Koraks :crankey:

good point.


Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:48 PM)


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
    #22202243 - 09/07/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Too late, you already got a mediocre ticket and I'm good friends with the organization anyway.


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Beanhead]
    #22202247 - 09/07/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Eugenics is already in place.

It's called fast food and television.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
    #22202253 - 09/07/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Too late, you already got a mediocre ticket and I'm good friends with the organization anyway.




Yeah I know that's the sad reality.

Atom bombs vs nuclear power is another good example of why we are a shitty species xD


Edited by Beanhead (09/07/15 01:50 PM)


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #22202258 - 09/07/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why would a drug user be anti-fast food?
Don't we all gather on common ground that what we put in our bodies is our own choice, because we are free to do that?


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: abltsandwich]
    #22202271 - 09/07/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It was a joke.
Eugenics is a ridiculous idea.
Patlal is a silly silly man.


--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #22202301 - 09/07/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Acaterpillar said:
It was a joke.
Eugenics is a ridiculous idea.
Patlal is a silly silly man.




Well somebody is not making the list...


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #22202311 - 09/07/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Acaterpillar said:
It was a joke.
Eugenics is a ridiculous idea.
Patlal is a silly silly man.




Yeah, you've all been had by Patlal.
We could have had a cool mutant thread, but no.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22202317 - 09/07/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're not telling me he was trolling, are you?
I would be super duper angry you know.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: koraks]
    #22202360 - 09/07/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
You're not telling me he was trolling, are you?
I would be super duper angry you know.




Nah, I was trolling. Sorry.
It's just I don't respect eugenics.
And nobody else posted cool mutants :frown:


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Moral eugenics. [Re: Turtletotem]
    #22202371 - 09/07/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Turtletotem said:
And nobody else posted cool mutants :frown:



Sorry about that. The cats are asleep at the moment and I always hate to wake them up as I'm pointing a camera at them. They tend to melt the plastic parts of the camera as well as my eyebrows as they yawn.


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