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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question.
#22201643 - 09/07/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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This will be my first cultivation of mushrooms, but not my first rodeo. My background is in biology and I'm no stranger to many aspects of the cultivation process sans the final product.
I have 3 spore syringes from and am weighing as to whether I want to simply use agar to spot check for contaminants or spend more time before cultivation and more towards using agar wedges for inoculation. I realize the latter is more likely to weed out contaminants, but from what I'm reading, spore syringe to agar can be somewhat frustrating. But hey! I'm mainly doing this for my love of science and horticulture, so a little frustration has never detered my love to experiment.
I have a few commercial agar formulas as well as experience mixing my own. Typically, for fungi, I would mix antibiotics in the agar to ward off invaders. How necessary is this with B+ spores, Golden Teacher Spores, and Argentina Spores?
*My bad, won't happen again. *
Edited by Kalistis (09/07/15 12:20 PM)
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22201788 - 09/07/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is mycology, not horticulture.
don't use any antibiotics, you want contaminantes to grow out if they are present. otherwise you will create dirty grain spawn. when you spot contaminates, you transfer your culture away from them to a new clean plate.
there is nothing wrong with spore syringe to agar.
I would highly highly recommend you indeed do start with agar.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Munchauzen]
#22201838 - 09/07/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If your background is in biology, I highly doubt you'll find any aspect of agar work frustrating at all. People here are more than helpful when it comes to answering questions about whether a plate looks like it's fucked.
Money is a concern to us all, but if it isn't a huge concern to you I recommend you try everything at once. Once you dive into this hobby it's a long time before you get tired of it, so instead of obsessively checking your growth every ten minutes like I did you might find it helpful to start with making your agar plates one day, then inoculating them the next, then making your PF cakes the next day, then inoculating them the next, and then you'll have plenty of things to check on and your eggs will be spread among more baskets.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22202383 - 09/07/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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ya can never have too much on the go in my book. Then you find than instead of being frusterated at how slow things seem, you actually find them moving to fast. More is always more.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22202401 - 09/07/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the advice! I'm more than accustomed to starting multiple projects in order to distract me from becoming impatient. My primary concern is that I'll start spinning too many plates at once (pun not intended but it applies!) and that I won't have anyone to help me out when I need help. I'm so used to bouncing ideas off colleagues and working in an environment where monkey can see...then monkey can do. Online forums are great, but man, wouldn't I love to run some of my questions past a colleague while I pour my agar and he shows me his progress. Clearly, the worst that is going to happen is that I'll fail and I really don't mind given I learn so much along the way.
I'm also clearly pretty dumb when it comes to using online forums. I'm worried I'll write something that will put me under fire so, I'm rather hesitant to even ask in the first place. Even after reading the rules. Turns out book smarts and college degrees don't buy you internet smarts.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22202413 - 09/07/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't worry about posting in mush cult. If you're semi literate and don't argue with the advice you're given, you will be way ahead of the curve. With agar its never a concern about having too many plates. Put ones you're not ready to deal with in the fridge. In fact its good to have a lot going at once, especially when hunting for genetics.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22202469 - 09/07/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, and keep in mind that everyone who hangs out in mush cult answering questions is doing for the express purpose of helping people, because that's what they enjoy doing. If you have a response that's so curt and matter-of-fact that frankly it borders on dickish, that's because you've probably been helped by someone who posts answers dozens of times a day, repeats themselves often and just wants to help as many people as they can. People were constantly misinterpreting my explanations, dry humor and sometimes short responses, so I changed my title to "really nice guy" so people would understand that I'm not an asshole. Other users haven't done so, mostly because they've got cooler stuff to put in their titles, so don't hesitate to ask any stupid question without fear of your head getting bitten off.
If that doesn't work for you, the Noob Forum is a place where it's expressly forbidden to disrespect people, so if you're more comfortable in the kind of environment where assholes get banned fast then you're always welcome there as well. Nobody's going to kick you out for asking more advanced questions there, either.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22203955 - 09/07/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can handle myself around assholes... I just don't want to be one. 
Here's what my research has helped me decide on so far for my first grow:
1. Syringe to agar for first to test for contaminants and increase yield. 2. Grain inoculation- I'm very interested in this method: http://www.shroomery.org/9665/Cybers-WBS-myco-bag-Tek
By happen chance, I have a copious amount of bird seed and millet on hand. Before today I was considering freezing it to prevent it from being invaded by bugs before I had a chance to use it all. Sounds like it's a cosmic perfect storm of sorts, if you ask me!
But can I do it with wedges? Will it increase my chances of contamination vs. using syringes?
3. I'd like to use a monotub as my first fruiting chamber since I work a lot and can't commit to more labor intensive methods. 4. I'm actively investigating substrates for my tub. I've found this link to be very informative but I welcome advice: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4532477
I still have a ways to go before I get started but I'd say I'm off to a good start. What do you think?
As usual, my boyfriend thinks I'm insane. But then again, I think he's just happy my dermestid beetle colony died off after a mite infestation and I decided to not keep them.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22203988 - 09/07/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I heard we were talking about assholes in here. Nice to meet you.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204018 - 09/07/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I couldn't have timed that better myself. Well done, Sir!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204035 - 09/07/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bags can be tricky if you don't have a flow hood. Not impossible but tricky. If your plan is to use agar wedges to inoculate your best bet would be to colonize a grain master then use that to inoculate the bag. Or you could use a liquid inoculate like LI or LC to inoculate the bag.
Of course sealing said bag etc is also going to factor in. I suggest starting with jars which are sufficient for most people. Use bags if you are needing to run two dozen tubs a month.
I like to do small grain masters (pints) and use one of those to G2G 6 quarts. A plate could easily do 4 pint masters which could be then expanded to 24 quarts of grain pretty quickly. That is gonna be enough to do 4 66 quart monos which should be enough. When starting i would not recommend going bigger than that anyway. Then you will have lots of clone material and a few pounds to munch on while you get more comfortable.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204041 - 09/07/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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One more vote for agar, by the way. I would've started with it before anything else if I'd known what it really boiled down to. I don't even know if that was a pun or not.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204118 - 09/07/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: One more vote for agar, by the way. I would've started with it before anything else if I'd known what it really boiled down to. I don't even know if that was a pun or not.
On a scale from bad to good, I'd give that pun a solid medium.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204162 - 09/07/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see. Thank you for the clarity PastyWhyte. It's difficult to measure how far my materials will take me without have going there. The amount of information truly is overwhelming. I don't need to go big, but would rather like to learn multiple elements of one method correctly. I realize there are a dozen ways to skin a cat, but I'm neither broke nor desperate for the final yield, so I'd like to learn!
I appreciate each and every one of you for taking your time to help me out. I've spent hours reading contributors posts and articles from this site. Shroomery is an amazing resource!
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204193 - 09/07/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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However, there is a chance I'll be in the research phase with the supplies for 20 different methods on hand for the rest of my life at this rate. Home Depot, Amazon, and the local hydroponics shop at every happy I found this hobby. If love is measured on use, than my debit card feels absolutely worshiped.
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Ajahn Don
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204429 - 09/07/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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iSmkGrnBud
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Ajahn Don]
#22204440 - 09/07/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would highly recommend agar as well. It seems everyone here has already steered you in the right direction. I'm excited to see what you can bring to the table.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22204472 - 09/07/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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TO AGAR. THAT IS THE ANSWER!
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: spirit_shadow] 1
#22210326 - 09/09/15 12:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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And to agar I shall go! I can't believe I just spent my entire day researching and driving around town like a mad woman. Actually, I can.
Here's a list of the supplies I have gathered so far: 4 66 qt Sterilite Ultra Latch- Clear Bins 1 88 qt Sterilite Container for my SAB Presto 23qt Pressure Cooker Ball Quart Mason Jars * I considered purchasing plastic, but I keep tripping on putting plastic in an autoclave - I know they could tolerate the heat, but I worry about the oil and chemicals in the plastics. Is this crazy? 5 gallon bucket with lid
¼ Pound Potato Dextrose Agar ¼ Pound Malt Extract Agar Falcon Petri Dishes 100 x 20mm - I have too many to count Inoculation loops - I already had both sterile disposable and reusable double ended. 50 pounds of Wild Bird Seed - Organic and local! No sunflower seeds. Mostly red and yellow millet, milo, cracked corn.
Vermiculite- I have this on hand, but I haven't decided if I am going to use it yet. Perlite- I have this on hand, but don't currently plan on using it. I bought a drill bit that drills BIG HOES. I felt kinda manly in the power tool section for a minute, but like a big loser when all I left with was a bit with an adapter to drill a 1¼ inch hole. There is always next week.
Miscellaneous items like nitrile gloves, ear-loop masks, 70% Isopropyl alcohol, duct tape, disposable sterile gowns, disposable surgical blades etc.
I want a blow torch. My boyfriend gave me a partly terrified, partly turned on look during dinner this evening when I mentioned I wanted one. I am totally buying one on my next day off.
I haven't decided on substrate for my monotubs just yet, no have I picked up any polyfil. I also haven't decided on where I am going to store my tubs. That's were I could use some advice:
I live in a fairly agreeable climate, but it is far too warm right now. By the time I am ready to transfer the grain that may change. Fall temps can range between 65 and 85. My house is fairly small, but very bright. There are minors in the home, but they are never left unattended in the home. I also frequently take on gardening and household projects, so there is no curiosity in my new hobby. My garage has a window that also allows in a fair amount of light, but I am concerned about FAE with the door closed. The yard itself is well shaded and could work out nicely, but I do have dogs. I also worry about contaminants and critters breaking into the tubs. I priced some small portable greenhouses, but once again I was worried that I wouldn't get good FAE in a closed tent. I don't want to hook-up fans or misters. That seems overboard. Do the tubs smell particularly bad? Recommendations?
So how have I done so far? As always, I graciously accept your experienced wisdom!
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210344 - 09/09/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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cracked corn is more of a concern than sunflower seeds in WBS. it'll turn the whole thing into a starchy mess. sunflower seeds just don't hold much water. have fun sorting it out.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Munchauzen]
#22210371 - 09/09/15 12:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poop. I did not know this. FFS... I have 50 pounds of shit seed? I will verify the label before I commit to feeding the neighborhood birds for the next 10 years with my 50 pound bag. The feed store had 50 pound bags of millet as well. Would that be better?
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210437 - 09/09/15 12:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you have a syringe I would not go to agar. Syringes usually contaminate on agar for some reason but you could get lucky and have some clean myc to transfer.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22210445 - 09/09/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why couldn't I just isolate out the contaminants?
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210452 - 09/09/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't want to transfer contaminants.... You want to transfer clean and healthy mycelium to another plate. Don't even touch those contaminants unless you plan on throwing that scalpel away right after.
But like I said... You could get some clean myc but sometimes there won't be any clean myc to transfer because of the sterility of the syringe.
I'd prepare some cakes or whatever you're trying to do and inoc to that. But you could knock your agar plates up at the same time and see for yourself also as a learning experience
Edited by Leviticus969 (09/09/15 12:54 AM)
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210461 - 09/09/15 12:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's exactly what I mean't transfer out the healthy spores to a new plate and leave contaminants, removing them from my sample. I have experience doing just that, but I could also do g2g transfer, but I am pretty worried about the contaminants in my syringes. Honesty, had I thought this one through more I would have started with a spore print, but that I have no experience with and thought the syringes would be a better place to start.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210467 - 09/09/15 12:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's a good idea... Perhaps I will start one master grain jar for g2g in the event my agar goes to shit.
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210472 - 09/09/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Print to agar is better than syringe to agar, tenfold, imho.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22210482 - 09/09/15 01:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well... I have these 3 syringes to work with first. Should all go well, I will make my own prints for future runs.
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210521 - 09/09/15 01:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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nothin' wrong with a spore syringe to agar...
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Ajahn Don
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Munchauzen]
#22211163 - 09/09/15 08:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The only hard part is getting one drop out of a new syringe.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Ajahn Don]
#22211389 - 09/09/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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squirt a drop on your loop and then swipe the loop on the agar! I dont have the attention span to read that one huge ass post Op made..sorry
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: spacechildo]
#22211459 - 09/09/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Op, Make some pasty plates then try all the suggestions and pick the one that is most comfortable to you
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: spirit_shadow]
#22212883 - 09/09/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was planning on trying some different medium nutrients in the process as well. I usually do loop to agar transfers because I will definitely squirt more than 1 drop otherwise.
Is straight millet better than seed mixes?
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THP
Stranger

Registered: 05/21/15
Posts: 123
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22213613 - 09/09/15 06:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have read straight millet is not ideal and can be hard to work with, either do straight rye, milo (sorghum), or wild bird seed mix with milo, millet as the two main ingredients, wheat is okay to have in it you just don't want corn (Makes it very sticky and fucks with moisture content I think) or fruits. I am only starting out too though so take my advice with a grain of salt
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: THP]
#22214510 - 09/09/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The 50 pound bag does have cracked corn in it. I read about some techniques using gypsum (which I purchased), but I have decided to scratch the current WBS and pick up another bag. I suppose I could take it back to the feed store ask if I could exchange it for a bag without cracked corn.
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Ajahn Don
Stranger


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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22214636 - 09/09/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Try oats at the feed store. I got mine at a Cal Store.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214663 - 09/09/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: If you have a syringe I would not go to agar. Syringes usually contaminate on agar for some reason but you could get lucky and have some clean myc to transfer.

Spore solution to agar is great. Those same contaminants were going to germinate in your seed.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22214683 - 09/09/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think that's the guy who used to burn his "bad trip" cubes in a bonfire. Don't worry about him van.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22214719 - 09/09/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey, you know me, Inoc. I worry.
OP, continue as planned. And make sure you drink plenty of fluids.
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 939
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22214747 - 09/09/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: If you have a syringe I would not go to agar. Syringes usually contaminate on agar for some reason but you could get lucky and have some clean myc to transfer.

Spore solution to agar is great. Those same contaminants were going to germinate in your seed. 
That's what you think....
OP... Do us a favor and shoot up the syringe on agar and tell us how it goes. And then... with that same syringe... shoot up a cake. Tell us how it goes.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214768 - 09/09/15 10:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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kmetric



Registered: 08/23/14
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22214780 - 09/09/15 10:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP, I've used spore syringe to agar many times successfully. Don't squirt too much, that's all.
Keep reading and reading, and good luck.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: kmetric]
#22214786 - 09/09/15 10:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Helps if you flame the needle and use the hot ass needle to make a little divot where you're going to squirt. Just be sure to clean it off and flame the needle again afterwards so there's no agar growing shit on it.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214789 - 09/09/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said:
Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: If you have a syringe I would not go to agar. Syringes usually contaminate on agar for some reason but you could get lucky and have some clean myc to transfer.

Spore solution to agar is great. Those same contaminants were going to germinate in your seed. 
That's what you think....
OP... Do us a favor and shoot up the syringe on agar and tell us how it goes. And then... with that same syringe... shoot up a cake. Tell us how it goes.
These grows were all done with spore syringe to agar. For obvious reasons. . .


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Leviticus969



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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22214799 - 09/09/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I never said they can't be done... I'm just saying they contaminate easier versus prints.... That's all I said.
Pretty much I've never had a print contaminate on me from throwing on agar but had a higher ratio of contaminates from syringes to agar.
This is my experience and opinion. No need for the flames.
Edited by Leviticus969 (09/09/15 10:56 PM)
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214803 - 09/09/15 10:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: I'm just saying they contaminate easier versus prints.... That's all I said.
And that's EXACTLY why you want that to happen on agar and not your substrate. There were no flames. Only facts.
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Leviticus969



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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22214811 - 09/09/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well... From MY experience... I've shot the same syringe on agar and onto a few pf jars. The jars all made it but my agar plates contammed horribly.
So... That's my fact. Don't ask me how that happened or why it did. It just did.
Edited by Leviticus969 (09/09/15 10:58 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214815 - 09/09/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What flames? You said to knock up a brf jar and a plate and see how it went. I posted a pic of grows that I did with ms solution to agar. Its not like I facepalmed you or called you something insulting. Jesus I can't post shit without people getting butthurt it seems.
To be entirely honest I have had very little issue with syringes to agar providing the syringe was reasonably clean. Some are a lost cause but they would have done not better on grains or cakes either. Cleaning up stuff is the point of agar.
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214816 - 09/09/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agar is supposed to show contaminates. That just means all those cakes probably underperformed because they were contaminated. If you had used the agar to get a clean culture and THEN put that to the cakes, it would probably have yielded significantly better results.
It's not like you're trying to grow off the agar, agar is supposed to contaminate if there are contaminants. That's the point.
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22214826 - 09/09/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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sorry Pastye... lol... You're alright man... That wasn't directed towards you. We good bro hahah
Oh and btw... Nice grows
Edited by Leviticus969 (09/09/15 11:02 PM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214828 - 09/09/15 11:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kalistis


Registered: 09/06/15
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22214928 - 09/09/15 11:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said:
Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: If you have a syringe I would not go to agar. Syringes usually contaminate on agar for some reason but you could get lucky and have some clean myc to transfer.

Spore solution to agar is great. Those same contaminants were going to germinate in your seed. 
That's what you think....
OP... Do us a favor and shoot up the syringe on agar and tell us how it goes. And then... with that same syringe... shoot up a cake. Tell us how it goes.
I'm not sure where you jumped in on this thread but I have over 10 years in a clinical setting and 5 years in a laboratory setting mixing, pouring, and plating selective growth and nutrient rich media for diagnostic purposes. Isolations are just another day at the office... What I don't have is experience plating fungal spores with the intention of using the agar for cultivation. As a biologist, the idea of trusting that someone else has used sterile techniques to produce my inoculate without testing it first, terrifies me. But I also don't have enough experience cultivating to know if I'm overreacting by going with my gut.
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22214935 - 09/09/15 11:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds like you know just enough to go ahead and go with your gut. Do everything yourself and do it well.
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Psilicon
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22217966 - 09/10/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Caelistis said:As a biologist, the idea of trusting that someone else has used sterile techniques to produce my inoculate without testing it first, terrifies me. But I also don't have enough experience cultivating to know if I'm overreacting by going with my gut.
Semi-sterile. Many of the people who sell spore syringes source their spores very responsibly, but that still just means they source them from people who grow mushroom reliably in their house, clear out subs as soon as they show trich instead of waiting, use sterile foil for prints and they printed it in a SAB or glove box. It notably does NOT mean the mushrooms were not fruited in open air in a house--or even a monotub--that has never had a trich infection.
I will say this: every syringe has a contaminant in it. It may be something small and unnoteworthy: a weakly-growing Bacillus, a Pennicilium spore. It may be something awful, like a Pleurotus or Trichoderma spore. The better the vendor, the more care they take finding a spore source. But if you have the tools and the skills, they're screaming to be used anyway. Might as well use best practices.
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Leviticus969



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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22218654 - 09/10/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
but that still just means they source them from people who grow mushroom reliably in their house, clear out subs as soon as they show trich instead of waiting, use sterile foil for prints and they printed it in a SAB or glove box. It notably does NOT mean the mushrooms were not fruited in open air in a house--or even a monotub--that has never had a trich infection.
Sorry don't mean to get a lil off track here but....
What if someone leaves their tub full of triched out substrate for awhile in the room... What does that mean? All grows forward would be contaminated? Or maybe it means shrooms grown in that room won't be potent anymore? Or perhaps the rest of your grows will catch trich faster? (trich on 2nd flush)
I'm really curious to know... Lmk if I need to start my own thread.
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22218667 - 09/10/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: All grows forward would be contaminated? Or maybe it means shrooms grown in that room won't be potent anymore? Or perhaps the rest of your grows will catch trich faster? (trich on 2nd flush)
The third one but POSSIBLY the first one if your technique really sucks. Contaminants don't affect the potency of mushrooms generally, except MAYBE for a slight correlation some have noticed between bacterial subs and potency, but there have been no tests run on that.
Also, one thing you forgot to hypothesize- You could die. If it were, you know, some toxic mold and it had filled the room with spores.
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Leviticus969



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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22218717 - 09/10/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks. Interesting response... I would love to hear more about this... Especially from someone who's had trich in their room and still does grows with good potency in said room.
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22218740 - 09/10/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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13shrooms says he can't grow in his house anymore. Could maybe pop in the AMU Q&A and ask him, since he's mostly in there. That's not the demographic you're looking for but he obviously has experienced contamination hell.
Most of us have had trich at one time and still produce good potency grows though. I don't know how many have let tubs get entirely forest green and sit for days and still grow though. I'm imagining a good few. But we all move and clean house and such now and then.
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Leviticus969



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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22218748 - 09/10/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will pop in there.... Thanks, once again. Still looking forward to responses here also.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Leviticus969]
#22218760 - 09/10/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can have successful grows after trich. But the higher the sporeload from any species the more likely things go awry. Filters can fail more often due to high spore loads on them, still air work will be less forgiving of sloppy technique, spawn runs may have slightly more difficulty completing clean. Obviously some good cleaning is a start but its still good practice to keep things as generally clean as you can.
Its about percentages. A filter with a sporeload of 1, 000, 000 spores is more likely to fail than a filter with 500, 000.
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22218772 - 09/10/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you run a purifier in your grow area pasty?
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22218777 - 09/10/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
6Silent9Knight6 said: Thanks. Interesting response... I would love to hear more about this... Especially from someone who's had trich in their room and still does grows with good potency in said room.
Quote:
Inocuole said: 13shrooms says he can't grow in his house anymore. Could maybe pop in the AMU Q&A and ask him, since he's mostly in there. That's not the demographic you're looking for but he obviously has experienced contamination hell.
Most of us have had trich at one time and still produce good potency grows though. I don't know how many have let tubs get entirely forest green and sit for days and still grow though. I'm imagining a good few. But we all move and clean house and such now and then.
ahem
blackdust
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Leviticus969



Registered: 07/01/12
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Munchauzen]
#22218836 - 09/10/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whew... What a relief... Thanks Pastye and Inoc... You guys rock...!
Air purifier in the room is not that bad of an idea. Might have to hop on that.
And what's blackdust? lol...
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22218838 - 09/10/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Do you run a purifier in your grow area pasty?
I'm starting to consider it. Never had too much issue at first but run a couple hundred tubs and you start to see small percentages add up. I want to get my success rate to 98-99% for 2016.
At that point I plan to switch heavy into ganodermas and the sporeloads from those are not forgiving. I still will want to do the occasional active grow and enoki as well, be nice to not have those taken over by reishi when I do grow them
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Inocuole
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22218855 - 09/10/15 09:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have one but the filter is getting a little old. Might replace the filter and then try to modify it with additional filtration, maybe silicone some EZ felt to it or something. I wonder if that would cause it to burn out. It's not much resistance but it could add up..
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22218863 - 09/10/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I should also note that my biggest issue has never been trich. Almost every tub that triched out in the last couple years was traced back to bacteria as the vector. My biggest problem has always been verticillium fungicola, I believe my house had a large sporeload of it to begin with. It was my first big contam and is the number one reason i push high FAE and cooler fruiting temps.
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Kalistis


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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22219058 - 09/10/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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While I'm not looking forward to the discovery of a number of potentially harmful invaders has contaminated any part of my tubs or cultures, I am curious as to what lurks silently in my home. My home is all hardwood and tile. I wonder if people with carpet struggle more with controlling the airborn fungal spores, bacteria, pollin, or even parasites? I've had carpet in the past and seen what lives under the mat. It's no laughing matter!
With that being said, I also worry about what I carry into my home from work and from the streets. Clostridium, Campulobacter, E.coli... Shudder... I love my job but there is a reason why I take my shoes off before I walk in the door and shower before I do anything else after work.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22219179 - 09/10/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Carpets do suck, I am currently ripping all the carpets out of my house and replacing with hardwood. Only have 3 rooms and a staircase to go
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Kalistis


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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22242399 - 09/15/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Carpets do suck, I am currently ripping all the carpets out of my house and replacing with hardwood. Only have 3 rooms and a staircase to go 
Awe Pasty, you are going to LOVE being carpet free. I haven't lived in a home with carpet since I pulled up our last carpet and saw what was living under it...And I am a clean freak. I can only imagine what some people have growing right under their noses.
There are a few downsides- 1. If you live in a colder climate (which I do not) than it gets cold. And if you don't routiney sweep and vacuum the floors then you will notice dirt regularly. I have 3 dogs. I have to sweep daily or else hair rolls through my house in tumbleweed like fashion. BUT it woud have been there too if I had carpet, only I wouldn't be as aware, Gross..
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