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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question.
#22201643 - 09/07/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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This will be my first cultivation of mushrooms, but not my first rodeo. My background is in biology and I'm no stranger to many aspects of the cultivation process sans the final product.
I have 3 spore syringes from and am weighing as to whether I want to simply use agar to spot check for contaminants or spend more time before cultivation and more towards using agar wedges for inoculation. I realize the latter is more likely to weed out contaminants, but from what I'm reading, spore syringe to agar can be somewhat frustrating. But hey! I'm mainly doing this for my love of science and horticulture, so a little frustration has never detered my love to experiment.
I have a few commercial agar formulas as well as experience mixing my own. Typically, for fungi, I would mix antibiotics in the agar to ward off invaders. How necessary is this with B+ spores, Golden Teacher Spores, and Argentina Spores?
*My bad, won't happen again. *
Edited by Kalistis (09/07/15 12:20 PM)
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22201788 - 09/07/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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this is mycology, not horticulture.
don't use any antibiotics, you want contaminantes to grow out if they are present. otherwise you will create dirty grain spawn. when you spot contaminates, you transfer your culture away from them to a new clean plate.
there is nothing wrong with spore syringe to agar.
I would highly highly recommend you indeed do start with agar.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Munchauzen]
#22201838 - 09/07/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If your background is in biology, I highly doubt you'll find any aspect of agar work frustrating at all. People here are more than helpful when it comes to answering questions about whether a plate looks like it's fucked.
Money is a concern to us all, but if it isn't a huge concern to you I recommend you try everything at once. Once you dive into this hobby it's a long time before you get tired of it, so instead of obsessively checking your growth every ten minutes like I did you might find it helpful to start with making your agar plates one day, then inoculating them the next, then making your PF cakes the next day, then inoculating them the next, and then you'll have plenty of things to check on and your eggs will be spread among more baskets.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22202383 - 09/07/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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ya can never have too much on the go in my book. Then you find than instead of being frusterated at how slow things seem, you actually find them moving to fast. More is always more.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22202401 - 09/07/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the advice! I'm more than accustomed to starting multiple projects in order to distract me from becoming impatient. My primary concern is that I'll start spinning too many plates at once (pun not intended but it applies!) and that I won't have anyone to help me out when I need help. I'm so used to bouncing ideas off colleagues and working in an environment where monkey can see...then monkey can do. Online forums are great, but man, wouldn't I love to run some of my questions past a colleague while I pour my agar and he shows me his progress. Clearly, the worst that is going to happen is that I'll fail and I really don't mind given I learn so much along the way.
I'm also clearly pretty dumb when it comes to using online forums. I'm worried I'll write something that will put me under fire so, I'm rather hesitant to even ask in the first place. Even after reading the rules. Turns out book smarts and college degrees don't buy you internet smarts.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22202413 - 09/07/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't worry about posting in mush cult. If you're semi literate and don't argue with the advice you're given, you will be way ahead of the curve. With agar its never a concern about having too many plates. Put ones you're not ready to deal with in the fridge. In fact its good to have a lot going at once, especially when hunting for genetics.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22202469 - 09/07/15 02:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah, and keep in mind that everyone who hangs out in mush cult answering questions is doing for the express purpose of helping people, because that's what they enjoy doing. If you have a response that's so curt and matter-of-fact that frankly it borders on dickish, that's because you've probably been helped by someone who posts answers dozens of times a day, repeats themselves often and just wants to help as many people as they can. People were constantly misinterpreting my explanations, dry humor and sometimes short responses, so I changed my title to "really nice guy" so people would understand that I'm not an asshole. Other users haven't done so, mostly because they've got cooler stuff to put in their titles, so don't hesitate to ask any stupid question without fear of your head getting bitten off.
If that doesn't work for you, the Noob Forum is a place where it's expressly forbidden to disrespect people, so if you're more comfortable in the kind of environment where assholes get banned fast then you're always welcome there as well. Nobody's going to kick you out for asking more advanced questions there, either.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Psilicon]
#22203955 - 09/07/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can handle myself around assholes... I just don't want to be one. 
Here's what my research has helped me decide on so far for my first grow:
1. Syringe to agar for first to test for contaminants and increase yield. 2. Grain inoculation- I'm very interested in this method: http://www.shroomery.org/9665/Cybers-WBS-myco-bag-Tek
By happen chance, I have a copious amount of bird seed and millet on hand. Before today I was considering freezing it to prevent it from being invaded by bugs before I had a chance to use it all. Sounds like it's a cosmic perfect storm of sorts, if you ask me!
But can I do it with wedges? Will it increase my chances of contamination vs. using syringes?
3. I'd like to use a monotub as my first fruiting chamber since I work a lot and can't commit to more labor intensive methods. 4. I'm actively investigating substrates for my tub. I've found this link to be very informative but I welcome advice: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4532477
I still have a ways to go before I get started but I'd say I'm off to a good start. What do you think?
As usual, my boyfriend thinks I'm insane. But then again, I think he's just happy my dermestid beetle colony died off after a mite infestation and I decided to not keep them.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22203988 - 09/07/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I heard we were talking about assholes in here. Nice to meet you.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204018 - 09/07/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I couldn't have timed that better myself. Well done, Sir!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204035 - 09/07/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bags can be tricky if you don't have a flow hood. Not impossible but tricky. If your plan is to use agar wedges to inoculate your best bet would be to colonize a grain master then use that to inoculate the bag. Or you could use a liquid inoculate like LI or LC to inoculate the bag.
Of course sealing said bag etc is also going to factor in. I suggest starting with jars which are sufficient for most people. Use bags if you are needing to run two dozen tubs a month.
I like to do small grain masters (pints) and use one of those to G2G 6 quarts. A plate could easily do 4 pint masters which could be then expanded to 24 quarts of grain pretty quickly. That is gonna be enough to do 4 66 quart monos which should be enough. When starting i would not recommend going bigger than that anyway. Then you will have lots of clone material and a few pounds to munch on while you get more comfortable.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204041 - 09/07/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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One more vote for agar, by the way. I would've started with it before anything else if I'd known what it really boiled down to. I don't even know if that was a pun or not.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204118 - 09/07/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: One more vote for agar, by the way. I would've started with it before anything else if I'd known what it really boiled down to. I don't even know if that was a pun or not.
On a scale from bad to good, I'd give that pun a solid medium.
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Inocuole]
#22204162 - 09/07/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see. Thank you for the clarity PastyWhyte. It's difficult to measure how far my materials will take me without have going there. The amount of information truly is overwhelming. I don't need to go big, but would rather like to learn multiple elements of one method correctly. I realize there are a dozen ways to skin a cat, but I'm neither broke nor desperate for the final yield, so I'd like to learn!
I appreciate each and every one of you for taking your time to help me out. I've spent hours reading contributors posts and articles from this site. Shroomery is an amazing resource!
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204193 - 09/07/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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However, there is a chance I'll be in the research phase with the supplies for 20 different methods on hand for the rest of my life at this rate. Home Depot, Amazon, and the local hydroponics shop at every happy I found this hobby. If love is measured on use, than my debit card feels absolutely worshiped.
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Ajahn Don
Stranger


Registered: 07/05/15
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22204429 - 09/07/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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iSmkGrnBud
Psychonaut



Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 891
Loc: Your subconscious
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Ajahn Don]
#22204440 - 09/07/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would highly recommend agar as well. It seems everyone here has already steered you in the right direction. I'm excited to see what you can bring to the table.
-------------------- iSmkGrnBud's Teks iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds  The Noob Forum's List of Teks “The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,674
Last seen: 15 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
#22204472 - 09/07/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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TO AGAR. THAT IS THE ANSWER!
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Kalistis

Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 2,265
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: spirit_shadow] 1
#22210326 - 09/09/15 12:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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And to agar I shall go! I can't believe I just spent my entire day researching and driving around town like a mad woman. Actually, I can.
Here's a list of the supplies I have gathered so far: 4 66 qt Sterilite Ultra Latch- Clear Bins 1 88 qt Sterilite Container for my SAB Presto 23qt Pressure Cooker Ball Quart Mason Jars * I considered purchasing plastic, but I keep tripping on putting plastic in an autoclave - I know they could tolerate the heat, but I worry about the oil and chemicals in the plastics. Is this crazy? 5 gallon bucket with lid
¼ Pound Potato Dextrose Agar ¼ Pound Malt Extract Agar Falcon Petri Dishes 100 x 20mm - I have too many to count Inoculation loops - I already had both sterile disposable and reusable double ended. 50 pounds of Wild Bird Seed - Organic and local! No sunflower seeds. Mostly red and yellow millet, milo, cracked corn.
Vermiculite- I have this on hand, but I haven't decided if I am going to use it yet. Perlite- I have this on hand, but don't currently plan on using it. I bought a drill bit that drills BIG HOES. I felt kinda manly in the power tool section for a minute, but like a big loser when all I left with was a bit with an adapter to drill a 1¼ inch hole. There is always next week.
Miscellaneous items like nitrile gloves, ear-loop masks, 70% Isopropyl alcohol, duct tape, disposable sterile gowns, disposable surgical blades etc.
I want a blow torch. My boyfriend gave me a partly terrified, partly turned on look during dinner this evening when I mentioned I wanted one. I am totally buying one on my next day off.
I haven't decided on substrate for my monotubs just yet, no have I picked up any polyfil. I also haven't decided on where I am going to store my tubs. That's were I could use some advice:
I live in a fairly agreeable climate, but it is far too warm right now. By the time I am ready to transfer the grain that may change. Fall temps can range between 65 and 85. My house is fairly small, but very bright. There are minors in the home, but they are never left unattended in the home. I also frequently take on gardening and household projects, so there is no curiosity in my new hobby. My garage has a window that also allows in a fair amount of light, but I am concerned about FAE with the door closed. The yard itself is well shaded and could work out nicely, but I do have dogs. I also worry about contaminants and critters breaking into the tubs. I priced some small portable greenhouses, but once again I was worried that I wouldn't get good FAE in a closed tent. I don't want to hook-up fans or misters. That seems overboard. Do the tubs smell particularly bad? Recommendations?
So how have I done so far? As always, I graciously accept your experienced wisdom!
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: First Cultivation- To Agar or Not to Agar? That is the question. [Re: Kalistis]
#22210344 - 09/09/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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cracked corn is more of a concern than sunflower seeds in WBS. it'll turn the whole thing into a starchy mess. sunflower seeds just don't hold much water. have fun sorting it out.
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