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Offlinefuckaname
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3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong?
    #22201329 - 09/07/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, I'm relatively new to micology and have never grown my own mushrooms before. I tried once long ago without a pressure cooker and failed due to contamination. I did plenty of stalking on the forums and learned what I believe is a lot in that time. But since I've bought the pressure cooker I've attempted 3 times with 4 different spores/syringes from 2 different verified vedors and have not had a successful growth in jars yet.

The process that I planned on using is wbs tek, followed by grain to grain transfer, and ultimatley spawn to bulk with coco coir.

In the last 3 grows I've had a 0% contamination rate since using the pressure cooker. So I know that's not the problem.
The first of the last 3 times, I simmered the bird seed without knowing at the time how easy it was to over soak them that way. And after sitting for day with a 2.5cc injection you could see water pooling on the bottom. I pretty much just gave up on those and ordered 2 more syringes. After about 5 weeks, maybe 25% of the very top of the substrate (the dryest part) is colonized. But I have little hope for the bottoms due to there being stagnent water present.

The last 2 tries were done at the same time a day apart, and instead of simmering the seeds all I did was soak them in hot tap water.

1/2 was soaked for 12hrs and the following half was soaked for 24 hours in the hope that I would find which one has the better moisture content. I let stand in a strainer in the fridge (cool air to help dry) for about 2-4 hours each to make sure they were completely dry on the outside and then continued the rest of the sterilization process. I added about 1-2 tablespoons of completely dry bird seed before pressure cooking in the hope it would absorb excess moisture. And let sit 48 hours after completing.

Each jar was given only 1.5cc this time to avoid adding too much water and then put in a bin with a small space heater set very low. Temperature ranges from 75-90 degrees. The jars that were soaked for 12 hours show some moisture on the bottom of the jar but no pooling at all, and the 24hr soaked jars have about 1/2-1tsp of stagnent water at the bottoms. Very little compared to the first jars.

The jars have been sitting about 11 days with absolutely no sign of any type of growth so far.

I'm at the disadvantage of not knowing what I'm dong wrong at this point, and I'm not sure where to progress from here. I had hoped to do the wbs to make grain transfers easy but am wondering if theres maybe an easier route like brf and vermiculite cakes, then breakng them apart or blending them into paste. 

I've grown my own personal supply of weed for years and love having just a couple plants growing, and thought I would find a great hobby in growing mushrooms as well due to not being able to get any from anywhere other than cow fields. But I'm now at an impass where I really need to decide if this is going to work or if I should stop wasting money on it.

So my questions are...

What am I doing wrong?

Is there an easier, more beginer friendly way to colonize the jars than wbs tek?

Is there a more effective ways you have of heating small spaces?

And any other tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for such a long winded post. Any other information that's needed I'd be happy to provide.
And thanks in advance to anyone who decided to reply.





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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201347 - 09/07/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Space heater, and putting jars in a tub to colonize is a huge no no

You want 68-72f but 65-75 works. 75+ you want the AC on. Under 65 you want to heat the whole room. Space heaters or heating blankets are the no1 noob mistake.
If you must incubate because you're under 65f then build a tub in a tub incubator do not use a space heater or heating blanket.

If you have an oil filled radiator type space heater that's acceptable if placed on the other side of the room than your jars.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22201356 - 09/07/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

wait...why are space heaters such a bad idea? Too hot?


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201358 - 09/07/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My house is 73 degrees so I don't think that's too low. I could definitely just put in a cabinet  which may gets 76-80 at mostover the fridge if that's better. I have a min/max temp reader and theyve never gotten over 92 degrees at any point. Would that be enough to ruin the spores in there, or could they still spawn if places somewhere appropriate?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22201363 - 09/07/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're using a lot of spore solution.  I usually go for about three drops per quart, if I'm inoculating directly.  If you're having trouble drying your grain, then try using a shorter soak and a quick simmer.  After they're hot, dump them through a sieve or strainer and then as soon as they quit dripping spread them on something to steam dry.  People use towels, newspapers, aluminum foil, baking sheets--all kinds of stuff for it.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Psilicon]
    #22201365 - 09/07/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And yes, a cabinet in a 73F house is pretty ideal.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201367 - 09/07/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you're house is 73 then put them on a shelf not ontop of the fridge.... If your jars get warmer than 75f out them somewhere more cool

A bookshelf is a great place if your house is within 65-75F

Fan forced space heaters make hot spots and really dry out rooms.


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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Psilicon]
    #22201372 - 09/07/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

try and find some wbs that doesn't have any corn in it. kroger brand is good stuff.


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201390 - 09/07/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Is 3 drops per quart really enough? Most things I read said to use 1-2cc's with a lot of people favoring 2. I just went with the middle amount, but that's a pretty big difference. How would you equate 3 drops out of a 10cc syringe? Or how many 1 quart jars would you do per syringe?

And okay, I'll go take them from the spot above the fridge I just put them in and move them to a closet now.

Any opinions if the spores I have are still viable after being heated to 92 degrees for a very short period, no more than a few hours. Or should I just order new syringes and start over to play it safe? How many days without growth would I know for sure?


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201402 - 09/07/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I got the economy mix at walmart like a lot of people suggested but it does have A LOT of crushed corn. I dont have kroger where I live but would definitely be open to other suggestions. I know a lot of people use pennington or some name similar, but will need to do more research on others with no or very minimal crushed corn.


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InvisibleStuey1
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22201403 - 09/07/15 10:41 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You don't need to shoot so much solution in there. A few drops will work. Ditch putting them in the fridge to cool dry. Just toss them every ten minutes or so in a strainer till they feel dry on the outside. You can put them on a piece of toilet paper and if there's moisture after 15 seconds on the to then let em sit a bit more. Usually takes about 30-45 min. And if I'm seeing this right are you securing tin foil under your lids? If so you need to remove the foil and put in some sort of filter for gas exchang (sfd,tyvek,polyfill). You have an abundant amount of busted kernals. I just clean then rinse. Soak all grain in 5 gallon bucket with handful of gypsum and half a pot of weak coffee for about 18-24 hours. Then pour contents of bucket in a big pot and simmer for about 30 min. After the drying is done load them up and PC for 90 min at 15psi. Inoculate the next day after cooled.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #22201420 - 09/07/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If you're house is 73 then put them on a shelf not ontop of the fridge.... If your jars get warmer than 75f out them somewhere more cool

A bookshelf is a great place if your house is within 65-75F

Fan forced space heaters make hot spots and really dry out rooms.



:lol: I'm going to be stoked if that's why my SGFC was having issues. I don't think mine has a fan but still.


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InvisibleStuey1
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Stuey1]
    #22201423 - 09/07/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That brand of wbs used to be a different blend than what I've seen lately. Yes there is a shit ton of corn. I would suggest switching to Pennington's if wally world is your spot. I've switched to winter wheat cuz 8 55 gallon barrels was donated to me. But I've always used wbs with great success


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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201424 - 09/07/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

listen to vdg. he knows whats up. 3 drops means 3 drops.

spore syringes would be fine. jars would probably not be. a month.


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Stuey1]
    #22201425 - 09/07/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm having a brain fart now and cant remember the exact name of the material, but that's the (tyvek,poly?) envelope cut to shape secured under the lid. I had a couple layers of foil covering the top half of jars while they were pressure cooking with the lids slightly unscrewed.


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201443 - 09/07/15 10:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks munchauz. I'll just go ahead and order new syringe to play it safe then. I'd rather not wait for 30 days not knowing.
I'm gonna do more research on the 3 drops just because it's the first I've heard, although judging by the # of posts you both know far more than me.

But the way I'm imagining it, with that little of an amount I should be able to inoculate like 40-50 jars with one 10cc syringe?
Would it be safer to do around 1/2cc or will I just be wasting it?


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InvisibleStuey1
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201459 - 09/07/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The tyvec you get out of envelopes will work OK. The best thing I can tell you is to watch RR's videos called "let's grow mushrooms" its about the most beneficial collection of information that is easy to follow along. Good luck man :super:


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InvisibleStuey1
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Stuey1]
    #22201465 - 09/07/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And one jar that you inoculate has the potential to to make enough spawn to produce 100 tubs if you want through g2g. But if your not using agar then shoot up a few and continue on with your best one


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: fuckaname]
    #22201780 - 09/07/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fuckaname said:
Thanks munchauz. I'll just go ahead and order new syringe to play it safe then. I'd rather not wait for 30 days not knowing.
I'm gonna do more research on the 3 drops just because it's the first I've heard, although judging by the # of posts you both know far more than me.

But the way I'm imagining it, with that little of an amount I should be able to inoculate like 40-50 jars with one 10cc syringe?
Would it be safer to do around 1/2cc or will I just be wasting it?




I always encourage people to do as much research as they can stand to.  In specific, I'd like to point you toward Bodhisattha's microscopy the spore solution he made.  He roughly calculates the number of spores in a single syringe and it's very impressive.  Of course, don't limit yourself to what I point out or you'll rob yourself of the diversity of opinions you find here on the Shroomery.

As far as how many jars you can inoculate goes, that sounds about right to me.  But I can't say for sure because I still haven't finished a single syringe on my own.  :wink:


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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Offlinefuckaname
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Re: 3rd Failed Spawn Attempt, What Am I Doing Wrong? [Re: Psilicon]
    #22202564 - 09/07/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Just getting back on after stepping away from the computer for a while. Just wanted to say thanks for all the reply's and information that everyone provided. It definitely encouraged me to give this another try.


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