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Shroomslip
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Adolin]
#22199524 - 09/06/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Depends on the platform they're on and how stealth it is. Nukes on the ground are mostly stationary, this is largely why the nuclear arsenal is so large, to ensure we will have the capability to strike back, should they try and just take out that option from the beginning.
So you have to factor that into the cost. A handful of missiles up there, or countless down here. Which is really more expensive to build/maintain?
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22199547 - 09/06/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lol it's all good man... We will still defend you if you ever need it. We love you and we love freedom. Including your choice not to piss on us if we're on fire <3
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Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Adolin]
#22199552 - 09/06/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gresh said: it seems unecessary to me, and too costly.
we can nuke like 3-8 cities with 1 minuteman ICBM in 8 minutes. and we have a couple dozen of em at least
so why have space weapons? sure, they would give us a better first-strike capability, but is 3 less minutes of nuke transit-time worth billions of dollars?
If those 3 minutes can guarantee zero retaliation then its worth every penny. The space platform would also be ideal for missile defense shields as it could immediatly target ballistic missles instead of merely being an early detection system that gives us the 10 minutes we need to get ours in the air for retaliation.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Adolin




Registered: 06/28/11
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22199560 - 09/06/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomslip said: Depends on the platform they're on and how stealth it is. Nukes on the ground are mostly stationary, this is largely why the nuclear arsenal is so large, to ensure we will have the capability to strike back, should they try and just take out that option from the beginning.
So you have to factor that into the cost. A handful of missiles up there, or countless down here. Which is really more expensive to build/maintain?
i have no idea which would be more costly. but we also have the SSBN subs, and there is really no defense against them and they're neigh-impossible to detect
i can only speculate though, im no expert it just seems extremely expensive and risky to send weapons like that into orbit
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22199573 - 09/06/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wouldn't be that hard to knock out the global positioning system with a few well placed missiles. China's already demonstrated that ability years ago. Knocking down a few nuclear armed satelittes isn't that big of a jumped. Honestly when your at the level of thermonuclear weapons in the Megaton range there is no stepping up capabilities anymore. You're already at a level where triggering any response is a guaranteed extinction level event. What's the point of mass drivers and low orbit nuclear strikes at that point? There isn't any.
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Ellis Dee
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Wouldn't be that hard to knock out the global positioning system with a few well placed missiles. China's already demonstrated that ability years ago. Knocking down a few nuclear armed satelittes isn't that big of a jumped. Honestly when your at the level of thermonuclear weapons in the Megaton range there is no stepping up capabilities anymore. You're already at a level where triggering any response is a guaranteed extinction level event. What's the point of mass drivers and low orbit nuclear strikes at that point? There isn't any.
A major benefit of using orbital based mass drivers as opposed to nuclear weapons is that we'll actually use them. And with no nuclear fallout there will be no international outrage either.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22199630 - 09/06/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't think there's gonna be outrage over using weapons that can level entire cities in a single shot?
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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i say we test that theory on n. korea.
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: rackem]
#22199641 - 09/06/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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China's totally not gonna declare war on the states in that scenario. You seem to have a very tenuous grasps on geopolitics.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Wouldn't be that hard to knock out the global positioning system with a few well placed missiles. China's already demonstrated that ability years ago. Knocking down a few nuclear armed satelittes isn't that big of a jumped. Honestly when your at the level of thermonuclear weapons in the Megaton range there is no stepping up capabilities anymore. You're already at a level where triggering any response is a guaranteed extinction level event. What's the point of mass drivers and low orbit nuclear strikes at that point? There isn't any.
It's not hard to base a point of attack without GPS either. Given what a nuclear warhead can actually do, you have an even wider margin of error than with the usual dumb bombs.
As for the rest, you tell me. I dunno. Orbiting platforms are no less unnecessary than the terrestrial based ones. It's just a giant dick waving contest. Regardless of the platform used, any nuclear war would pretty much end our species.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: China's totally not gonna declare war on the states in that scenario. You seem to have a very tenuous grasps on geopolitics.
China is totally surrounded by regional rivals. China doesn't even have the capacity to become a regional hegemon for that reason.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22199653 - 09/06/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So essentially you agree with me. Not only would orbital stations be considerable more taxing on the states finances they would also be more vulnerable by quite a wide factor in comparison to terrestrial installations. So again, what's the point?
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Registered: 06/02/09
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Ellis Dee]
#22199661 - 09/06/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: China's totally not gonna declare war on the states in that scenario. You seem to have a very tenuous grasps on geopolitics.
China is totally surrounded by regional rivals. China doesn't even have the capacity to become a regional hegemon for that reason.
They're regional rivals are gnats in comparison to their capabilities. The states hold on power is already on a irreversible decline as it is
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Shroomslip
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What's the point of any of it? Using them is pointless. You don't "stop" anything. All you do is make sure they get fucked up as well and as we fuck each other up, we ensure no one will survive on this planet.
Like I said, it's a giant dick waving contest. Having nukes in space means you have a bigger dick than nukes on Earth. It's also harder to fire a non-gps guided bomb from a point on Earth to another point on Earth, than it is to calculate a firing plan from space to a point on Earth. You have to factor in much more (some may even be incalculable) for Earth to Earth than you do space to Earth.
You can also get away with much smaller missiles. Rockets are highly ineffective methods of travel due to the fuel needs. When you don't have to overcome Earth's gravity to begin with, you need a fraction of the fuel, thus a much simpler and smaller missile.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: China's totally not gonna declare war on the states in that scenario. You seem to have a very tenuous grasps on geopolitics.
China is totally surrounded by regional rivals. China doesn't even have the capacity to become a regional hegemon for that reason.
They're regional rivals are gnats in comparison to their capabilities. The states hold on power is already on a irreversible decline as it is
Would you call South Korea, Japan, Singapore, India, Vietnam, and Taiwan gnats? Even the smallest of the Asian tigers, Singapore, has a substantial military capability and is a serious regional power.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Bodhi of Ankou
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Shroomslip]
#22199698 - 09/06/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But they're just out there unarmoured and unprotected. A single hypersonic missile would take them out before anyone could even react.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Shiithead]
#22199703 - 09/06/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shiithead said: Lol it's all good man... We will still defend you if you ever need it. We love you and we love freedom. Including your choice not to piss on us if we're on fire <3
I defend me muffin
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
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Re: Should we militarize outer space? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22199716 - 09/06/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I stuffin the muffin while riskin the biscuit.
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Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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Shroomslip
Architekt



Registered: 11/25/12
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: But they're just out there unarmoured and unprotected. A single hypersonic missile would take them out before anyone could even react.
That's why I said it would depend on how stealth they are. Space is pretty big. It's not hard to imagine they could hide it out there somehow. We still have issues finding fixed points on the ground with much higher foot prints, and the surface of the Earth is constantly monitored to a great deal higher of a percentage than the sky is.
Is it vulnerable? Sure, if you make it obvious or easy to find. If you figure out a way to make it extremely difficult or impossible to spot, you've just grown your dick exponentially.
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With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way. I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today. Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear. I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear. You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Taiwan and Singapore are essentially aligned with China already and it's much more complicated then simple military numbers. National alligences play a significant role in regional power structures. Either way the states would be laid waste to. Every power out there has spent the last 6 decades devolping the capabilities to knock out rival superpowers in one fell stroke. Dropping a 90 ton rock from orbit on N.Korea would not be met with compliance from any rival state out there.
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