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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Trump [Re: Astral Pain]
    #23700744 - 10/02/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Astral Pain said:


Black Lives Matter Vandalizes Trump International in DC – Liberal Media COMPLETELY IGNORES

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/clinton-supporters-vandalize-trump-international-hotel-washington-dc/




That's because its simple vandalism


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23700818 - 10/02/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Well, I can't say you're wrong without presuming to be the arbiter of fairness for society.  I'm not that.  I do think that having such a high percentage of society paying nothing in federal income tax is far from fair, though.




most of them are giving the federal government an interest free loan.  Is there no value to that?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700843 - 10/02/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, that has a value, but it's unlikely that the value of that loan exceeds the cost to process the refund.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #23700870 - 10/02/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

value is subjective.  a poor person needs the money that they loaned the government just to scrape by.  A rich person is merely inconvenienced by the taxes the government actually keeps from them.

In other words, if i have $100, and I loan you $20, i just sacrificed something of great value.  I'll probably have to skip a couple meals if you don't pay me back promptly.  if by contrast, you have $10,000,000, and you drop $5000 on the ground, you've lost something of very little value, and you probably wouldn't even notice if you didn't pay close attention.


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Edited by ballsalsa (10/02/16 04:47 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700889 - 10/02/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Then why does the poor insist on loaning the government money?  It's a choice, after all.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23700898 - 10/02/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

the same reason that the rich pay they taxes that they do: In order to preserve all the benefits of living in the U.S., of which there are many.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700907 - 10/02/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

But the poor don't pay income tax, and they don't have to have them taken out of their checks.


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700914 - 10/02/16 04:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What loans are you talking about? Are we talking about payroll withholdings that are ultimately
refunded?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23700926 - 10/02/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
But the poor don't pay income tax, and they don't have to have them taken out of their checks.




but most of them do, and that should say something


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23700933 - 10/02/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

yes, that is the premise for Enlil's argument that most people don't pay federal income taxes


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Edited by ballsalsa (10/02/16 05:02 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700934 - 10/02/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Most people are stupid.:shrug:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23700942 - 10/02/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

maybe, or maybe most people are vaguely altruistic, or that most people have  a hard time saving anything and they like to receive a chunk that the gov't saved for them


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23700955 - 10/02/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The former is absurdly idealistic and the latter confirms my hypothesis


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23700976 - 10/02/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

poor people are paid less, and charged more, for virtually everything.  Is it surprising that it is harder to save money when you have very little?  When you have very little money, one small thing, like an old car breaking down for instance, can wipe out all of your savings. At least if the government already has it, no circumstances can force your hand into spending it.  as an added bonus, you get to help grease the wheels that keep america rolling at no cost (though no profit either)

Edit: Why does the reason matter?


Edited by ballsalsa (10/02/16 05:14 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23701017 - 10/02/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It only matters in this discussion because I hypothesized that most people are stupid.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
    #23701065 - 10/02/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so then explain to me again why the people who gain the most benefit from living in america shouldn't pay taxes in proportion to the benefit enjoyed


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23702041 - 10/02/16 11:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Here's the sentimental hunting heritage Trump campaign ad


WARNING: This is like kryptonite for Libs


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23702110 - 10/03/16 12:23 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
so then explain to me again why the people who gain the most benefit from living in america shouldn't pay taxes in proportion to the benefit enjoyed



Because it makes more sense to tie the amount of required contribution to the amount a person costs the government.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #23702173 - 10/03/16 12:49 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

so a disabled, and chronically ill veteran without private medical insurance, and who has 7 kids should pay the highest tax rate then?


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23702408 - 10/03/16 04:04 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Agreed, but to tackle something as monstrous as the deficit, I think all will need to pitch in more. The American public
are demanding 1st world infrastructure, healthcare, and other programs at extremely low tax rates. The middle class on up is guilty
of demanding what it refuses to pay for. It would be really nice if we could find all the money we need to fix the budget and
start improving our situation in McMansions or in the ghetto, but the numbers don't pan out. Neither the top 1% nor the impoverished
have the money stashed away to make the problems of the 100% go away.

And yes, Trump follows the tax code (I assume on faith b/c of the IRS audits, Trump isn't sharing), but individuals such as Trump
have their interests represented extremely well in the tax code. Taking as much as possible from the gov't while contributing
as little as possible might be good business, but the voting public will decide for themselves whether such an attitude is "just" or
befitting someone who conceitedly demands the helm.




    You are making a lot of sense. Economics is not my strong point. But I remember as far back as the late 70's thinking this deficit is completely insane, and the interest were supposedly paying on it. Since then we just add more zeros to the end of the equation. That's why I sort of quit worrying about it, but at some point the shit is going to hit the fan. I don't when or how. My only conclusion is that China probably won't attack us, because they own us.


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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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