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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Hillary supporters assault Trump-supporting woman and steal Trump signs in Lemoore, CA area
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/video-california-woman-beaten-trump-yard-sign/
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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the hair pulling Hills.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Nothing new is happening.
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Why do you guys personally attack me? Is enil ever gonna do his fucking job? We can't discuss the issues when you guys constantly make it about me... 
^ typical conservative loony post.
see the irony? intentional irony....you don't see anyone going around saying shit like the above shit, do you...only you do -- it just has "libtard" or "progressive" as the title, instead of "cuckservative"
Bam! Nailed it. I hope HU understands this.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Quote:
Peteyboy said: The bully mentality...it's pretty typical of the left and of the right. Both sides are corrupt as hell and don't give two shits about any one of us on here. Instead of arguing about these details, we should all be working together to repel Globalism and the elite Globalists that have created an environment in which the government is no longer "of the people and for the people" but is now against its own people. This is happening on a global scale. We need to take our country back from these theives then we can start hashin out issues like health care and the likes. Unfortunately, until we all come together to defeat this power structure, none of this arguing even matters, because our Country will continue to be raped and pillaged from the inside out and the top down. There is only one candidate talking about the world stage in this manner. That's Donald Trump, sure he's not the perfect candidate, but quite frankly who is? Nobody is perfect, nor will you ever have a candidate that you fall in line with 100%. As much as I support Trump, there are things I disagree with. But he is the only Anti-Globalism Pro America candidate in the race. This earns my vote, his message, the populist movement, that all earns my vote. I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt, and give him the chance to folow through on what he says hes gonna do. The alternative is 8 more years of country wrecking policies on steroids. And I think it's fair to say we can NOT sustain another 8 yrs of this horse crap we have all had to deal with.
I was with you all the way until you said Trump is the guy to fix anything. The only thing he wants as President is more money for himself, and corresponding tax cuts for the rich. He's contradicted himself on just about everything else he's said, so we just can't trust him.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: the top ten percent pays about 70% of all federal income taxes, anything else is just liberal tripe
Another dead horse to flog. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23638993#23638993
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23640570#23640570
Very good reminder. 
Mod edit: removed personal attack.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Enlil (10/02/16 01:32 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: the top ten percent pays about 70% of all federal income taxes, anything else is just liberal tripe
Another dead horse to flog. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23638993#23638993
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23640570#23640570
I'm trying to figure out what your point is. Are you saying that people who make more should pay more because they can afford to? Or are you saying they should pay more because they use more government money? Or are you not saying they should pay more?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil] 1
#23700329 - 10/02/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They should pay more because they disproportionately reap the benefits of American society compared to their tax burden.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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By "reap the benefits", you mean that they make more money? Or you mean that they cost the taxpayers more money? Or both?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Most, if not all, of those quotes have long been debunked. You're basically relying on Klan literature.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
#23700378 - 10/02/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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They make more money and are thus able to make fuller use of the resources available to Americans in general. Yet their tax burden doesn't reflect this disparate wealth advantage
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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That depends on how you look at it. Your argument is premised on an outcome-determinative analysis. People who have had better outcomes owe more of the burden under that argument. Others might see it as an opportunity-determinative analysis. Under that analysis, government provides more opportunity to the poor than to the rich.
For me, I'm not sold on the argument you're propounding. I do believe that income tax has to be progressive as a practical matter, but that isn't the same as saying that a heavily progressive tax represents the "fair share" that each should pay.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil] 1
#23700449 - 10/02/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:I'm trying to figure out what your point is. Are you saying that people who make more should pay more because they can afford to? Or are you saying they should pay more because they use more government money? Or are you not saying they should pay more?
Not ballsalsa, but Id say people who make more money should pay a larger % of their income in taxes, both because they can afford to do so and because their large income can be co-related to their much greater utilization of public goods. Trump('s company) may pay sales tax and payroll taxes, as do all his smaller competitors. Unlike some of his competitors, Trump weasles out of federal income tax, just as an example. Overall Trump likely has a lower overall tax burden (before factoring in likely gov't subsidies) thanks to tricky accounting and lawyering. Trump also gets extra utilization out of the public infrastructure (and grants like perhaps Sec. 8).
In other words, the working and middle class likely subsidize Trump, the individual, to the tune of tens of thousands of SNAP beneficiaries, and it seems rather apparent to me that he probably hasn't ever felt what hunger feels like.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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plus it would help "lower the debt."
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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He doesn't "weasel" out of paying taxes. He follows the tax code.
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands." - Judge Learned Hand
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Agreed, but to tackle something as monstrous as the deficit, I think all will need to pitch in more. The American public are demanding 1st world infrastructure, healthcare, and other programs at extremely low tax rates. The middle class on up is guilty of demanding what it refuses to pay for. It would be really nice if we could find all the money we need to fix the budget and start improving our situation in McMansions or in the ghetto, but the numbers don't pan out. Neither the top 1% nor the impoverished have the money stashed away to make the problems of the 100% go away.
And yes, Trump follows the tax code (I assume on faith b/c of the IRS audits, Trump isn't sharing), but individuals such as Trump have their interests represented extremely well in the tax code. Taking as much as possible from the gov't while contributing as little as possible might be good business, but the voting public will decide for themselves whether such an attitude is "just" or befitting someone who conceitedly demands the helm.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
#23700714 - 10/02/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That depends on how you look at it. Your argument is premised on an outcome-determinative analysis. People who have had better outcomes owe more of the burden under that argument. Others might see it as an opportunity-determinative analysis. Under that analysis, government provides more opportunity to the poor than to the rich.
For me, I'm not sold on the argument you're propounding. I do believe that income tax has to be progressive as a practical matter, but that isn't the same as saying that a heavily progressive tax represents the "fair share" that each should pay.
That might be the least combative response i've ever gotten out of you Enlil.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Well, I can't say you're wrong without presuming to be the arbiter of fairness for society. I'm not that. I do think that having such a high percentage of society paying nothing in federal income tax is far from fair, though.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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