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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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starfire_xes said: Actually, after listening to 8 years of Obama, I could've sworn it was Bush was the source of all things fucked in the US.
Bush killed the dinosaurs.
You haven no idea how the real world works anymore. Your simplistic ideas about payments and whatnot has evaporated. Things dont work like that anymore.
I still have my sense of humor along with knowing full well how the world works.
When did your sense of humor die?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
#23596809 - 08/31/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I've never seen Fal claim that the debt will be repaid.
He claims it "can" be repaid.
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Maroon
Stranger

Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 1,897
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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It's reagans fault, it's bushs fault, it's clintons fault, it's bushs fault , it's going to be clintons fault....... Anyone notice a cycle???
The last president to enact real authority was jfk when he threatens to limit the bankers power so they could not enslave the world in unfair money creating policies.
What happened to him shortly after?
It's not the presidents as everyone after JFK has not truly embraces the position and cowered to bankers wants and needs.
Who has oversight of this federal reserve that's got every citizen held hostage over faked debt?
-------------------- UNDENIABLE PROOF A MODERATOR (Enlil) USES FRAUDULENT POSTS TO SUPOORT HIS OPINIONS. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23596771#23596771 anyone can verify my original post in its unedited format. This proves the length the disinfo whores will go to defend pseudo theories. What quack jobs. Time to get out of moms basement. One must ask why they would be complicit in crimes against humanity? Is debt based money really worth whoring out your credibility for?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23596899 - 08/31/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: Yes, the Treasury does own the gold, that still doesn't answer my question.
The reason the Treasury bought so much gold is because the dollar used to be on a gold standard.
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qman said:
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Enlil said:
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qman said:
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Enlil said: The debt will never be paid. That's the reality, and you might as well get used to it. Gold standard or not, the debt will climb
I keep telling that to Fal, he keeps on insisting higher taxes would solve that issue.
I've never seen Fal claim that the debt will be repaid.
He claims it "can" be repaid.
Enlil is correct. I've never said the debt will be paid off, I simply said it can be paid off. Congress simply needs to raise more in taxes than it spends.
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qman said: My contention is that a gold standard might be established during/after the crash to restore confidence in the financial system.
Who says there's no confidence in the financial system? Only if debt/GDP goes off the charts will people will lose confidence in the financial system. But we've seen this kind of debt/GDP ratio before and we pushed it down before the tax cuts of the 80's.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Trump [Re: Maroon]
#23596905 - 08/31/16 09:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maroon said: Who has oversight of this federal reserve that's got every citizen held hostage over faked debt?
Debt is the result of the President and Congress spending more than they take in. It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Federal Reserve.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 15 minutes
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Money is debt
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Maroon
Stranger

Registered: 08/25/15
Posts: 1,897
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Well who creates more money than they have to spend in the first place? And how can interest ever be paid in full on this manufactured money
And what branch has oversight of it since you are convinced it's govts fault
-------------------- UNDENIABLE PROOF A MODERATOR (Enlil) USES FRAUDULENT POSTS TO SUPOORT HIS OPINIONS. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23596771#23596771 anyone can verify my original post in its unedited format. This proves the length the disinfo whores will go to defend pseudo theories. What quack jobs. Time to get out of moms basement. One must ask why they would be complicit in crimes against humanity? Is debt based money really worth whoring out your credibility for?
Edited by Maroon (08/31/16 10:09 AM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 15 minutes
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Re: Trump [Re: Maroon]
#23597063 - 08/31/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fal, have you read The Creature From Jekyll Island?
Its a little preachy, but pretty good nonetheless. Im about halfway through it.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 8 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Trump [Re: Maroon]
#23597072 - 08/31/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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A poor candidate (who don't take the corporate money) will never compete with a rich candidate for President. Not in our "democracy" in the TV and media era. And the people who think you could do it just on the internet are spending way too much time on the internet.
The National Debt has seemed hopeless to me since the 70's particularly with the interest payments involved. But we just keep adding more zeros on the end of the number and it has gone on for another generation, but it can't go on forever. We do have enough ICBMs to blow up the world 500-1000 times , but we wont use them because we aren't Islamic millennial extremists. At some point, under pressure, we are going to have to tell the Chinese, OK you bought us, come in and run half the country. They don't want to destroy us because they own us, and they paid fair and square. The people whose biggest fear is a world government, need to realize we sold our country to the world. while we were spending half our GNP being the world's policeman, which never seemed to have the economic benefits we were promised.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Money is debt 
No, money is not debt. The fractional reserve system allows money to be created as debt, but that money is taken back out of existence when the debt is paid off.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: Yes, the Treasury does own the gold, that still doesn't answer my question.
The reason the Treasury bought so much gold is because the dollar used to be on a gold standard.
Quote:
qman said:
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Enlil said: The debt will never be paid. That's the reality, and you might as well get used to it. Gold standard or not, the debt will climb
I keep telling that to Fal, he keeps on insisting higher taxes would solve that issue.
I've never seen Fal claim that the debt will be repaid.
He claims it "can" be repaid.
Enlil is correct. I've never said the debt will be paid off, I simply said it can be paid off. Congress simply needs to raise more in taxes than it spends.
Quote:
qman said: My contention is that a gold standard might be established during/after the crash to restore confidence in the financial system.
Who says there's no confidence in the financial system? Only if debt/GDP goes off the charts will people will lose confidence in the financial system. But we've seen this kind of debt/GDP ratio before and we pushed it down before the tax cuts of the 80's.

Once again, it might be restored IF people lose confidence in the system. Do you really believe we are going to have tax surpluses and start paying down the debt? This isn't the 1950's anymore.
Edited by qman (08/31/16 12:05 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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The Ecstatic said: Money is debt 
No, money is not debt. The fractional reserve system allows money to be created as debt, but that money is taken back out of existence when the debt is paid off.
So the monetary base never grows?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 15 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Money is debt 
No, money is not debt. The fractional reserve system allows money to be created as debt, but that money is taken back out of existence when the debt is paid off.
I was being flippant, but I dont think thats entirely true.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Orange Drufus thinks Hillary literally poured bleach on her email server.
"“...33,000 emails that she deleted. They’re gone. And not only deleted folks, she bleached. Which somebody said they had never even heard of. In a very expensive fashion, [she] used chemicals so nobody will ever be able to see ‘em. Who does this?”
The program to delete them is named BleachBit. What a moron.
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Trump [Re: qman] 1
#23597639 - 08/31/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:"Not all developed nation are debtor nations"
Give a list of the one's with a surplus.
Finland, Germany, China, Canada, Venezuela, South Korea, Belgium, Saudia Arabia, ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position
(The following isn't exactly true, which is scary in my mind)
For every dollar in debt owed, someone must be the creditor. It sure isn't the poor developing nations that tend to be creditors.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:"Not all developed nation are debtor nations"
Give a list of the one's with a surplus.
Finland, Germany, China, Canada, Venezuela, South Korea, Belgium, Saudia Arabia, ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position
(The following isn't exactly true, which is scary in my mind)
For every dollar in debt owed, someone must be the creditor. It sure isn't the poor developing nations that tend to be creditors.
South Korea, Venezuela, and Saudi Arabia are not developed economies.
Either way, NIIP doesn't address the key component, DEBT/GDP ratio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio
"someone must be the creditor"
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jul/15/us-debt-how-big-who-owns
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Fal, have you read The Creature From Jekyll Island?
Its a little preachy, but pretty good nonetheless. Im about halfway through it.
The guy who wrote that it is not only a conspiracy nut, but he knows NOTHING about what he's talking about. Here are a few examples:
Claim #1. The Federal Reserve is a cartel designed to eliminate competition in banking and thereby generate huge profits for its members.
Fact #1: All profits of the Fed go back to the US Treasury, except a nominal fee for member banks. Look up just how much the Chairman of the Federal Reserve makes each year and his/her net worth.
Claim #2. Banks make huge profits from the Federal Reserve because if the Fed loans money to the Government, that money is now available for people to deposit into banks, which then collect more interest on it.
Fact #2: It means EVERYONE has more money; only some of it gets deposited into banks while most of it gets spent on the economy.
Claim #3. By creating new money, existing money is diluted and the Government is making out while everyone else loses ("Inflation is a tax").
Fact #3. This is true, except everyone knows there is a ~3% inflation rate per year (on average) and people know to invest or save accordingly. Most people get a cost of living adjustment each year to their salary to adjust for this, so they're not losing money (unless they stash money in their couch).
Claim #4. Inflation allowed Governments to collect an extra 40% - 80% tax without the people knowing it.
Inflation in the US is only about 3% a year (the 40% - 80% is probably a cumulative number), and everyone knows about it.
Claim #5. The Fed allows banks to charge interest on "money" that doesn't even exist.
This allows businesses to borrow more money at lower interest rates, which helps businesses and the economy.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23597816 - 08/31/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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The Ecstatic said: Money is debt 
No, money is not debt. The fractional reserve system allows money to be created as debt, but that money is taken back out of existence when the debt is paid off.
So the monetary base never grows?
I never said that. I said the money that is created through debt gets retired when the debt is paid back. The Fed does create new money each year at a rate that keeps inflation stable around 3% per year.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Money is debt 
No, money is not debt. The fractional reserve system allows money to be created as debt, but that money is taken back out of existence when the debt is paid off.
So the monetary base never grows?
I never said that. I said the money that is created through debt gets retired when the debt is paid back. The Fed does create new money each year at a rate that keeps inflation stable around 3% per year.
That works fine until it ends up like we have today, the Fed can't force banks to extend credit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity_trap
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23597844 - 08/31/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, that's not the situation we have today.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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