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qman
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
#23595527 - 08/30/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: No reputable economist supports a return to the gold standard.
That might be true, but a return to some sort of gold standard won't be by choice, it could be by necessity.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


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Post deleted by EnlilReason for deletion: No need to get personal
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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see, that's just narrow minded.
no one gives a fuck about me or you. nobody gives a fuck about much, but what they need to record for themselves to progress themselves, to learn and to achieve, for themselves. don't act like you don't do the same.
plus, i'd be willing to bet i'd survive better than a drunk.
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qman
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
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Thats entirely disputable. You assume advantages to being a drunk, advantages that simply dont exist. You're beholden to the idea of a drunk more then you're beholden to the idea of anything.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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lol
right. i assume advantages. you assume advantages.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


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Post deleted by EnlilReason for deletion: No need to get personal
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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neither do yours. that's why they're called assumptions. they needs be clarified before they can be not assumptions.
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Crumist
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23595594 - 08/30/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:That might be true, but a return to some sort of gold standard won't be by choice, it could be by necessity.
What necessity? Gold is only useful in electronics and chemistry. It isn't of any use in the TEOTWAWKI situation many gold bugs have in mind. I used to (still am actually) drawn to the idea of the incredibly dense and tangible store of wealth bullion provides, and there is a whole industry that drives up the price of precious metals every time there is uncertainty in the markets. But if you look at it rationally these metals have little to no inherent worth.
I don't see how basing the USD on gold (wildly speculative, as noted) would reduce our trade deficit. Or confer any advantage really, but then again these kind of discussions make my head hurt.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23595617 - 08/30/16 09:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Hmm, under a gold standard the price of gold is fixed, what difference does it make if people want to hoard their cash (backed by gold) or invest it?
So let's be clear... You want the Government to make it illegal to own gold so that they can control the price, correct?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:That might be true, but a return to some sort of gold standard won't be by choice, it could be by necessity.
What necessity? Gold is only useful in electronics and chemistry. It isn't of any use in the TEOTWAWKI situation many gold bugs have in mind. I used to (still am actually) drawn to the idea of the incredibly dense and tangible store of wealth bullion provides, and there is a whole industry that drives up the price of precious metals every time there is uncertainty in the markets. But if you look at it rationally these metals have little to no inherent worth.
I don't see how basing the USD on gold (wildly speculative, as noted) would reduce our trade deficit. Or confer any advantage really, but then again these kind of discussions make my head hurt.
I not here to educate you on the history of the gold standard and the economics behind it.
Gold has been used for thousands of years as a storage of wealth, why does the Federal Reserve hold over 8,000 tons of gold if it has "no inherent worth"? Why have all the world's central banks been on a gold buying spree the past 5 years?
The US has $20 trillion in debt that can never be paid back with today's units of currency, every developed economy in the world is in the same predicament, there may be a day and time when bonds will have to be backed by gold before anyone decides to buy them!
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Hmm, under a gold standard the price of gold is fixed, what difference does it make if people want to hoard their cash (backed by gold) or invest it?
So let's be clear... You want the Government to make it illegal to own gold so that they can control the price, correct?
It doesn't have to be that way.
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Crumist
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23595695 - 08/30/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not all developed nations are debtor nations. I would guess the "gold buying spree" is sales talk of the "sell overpriced precious metals to paranoid people for cool cash" industry. You may well be right (and therefore a potentially quite wealthy man) about the return to a gold standard, but we aren't there yet.
As it stands, the invisible, intangible, and corrupt mechanisms that set the price of the USD and Euro are seen as more stable than the supply and demand of any precious metal.
The US debt (or trade deficit) situation isn't any more or less hopeless with gold in the equation. I fail to see the connection.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23595796 - 08/30/16 10:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So let's be clear... You want the Government to make it illegal to own gold so that they can control the price, correct?
It doesn't have to be that way.
It does if you want the price of gold to be fixed. Otherwise, gold is worth what the market is willing to pay.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23595822 - 08/30/16 10:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: why does the Federal Reserve hold over 8,000 tons of gold if it has "no inherent worth"?
The Treasury owns the gold, not the Fed.
Quote:
qman said: The US has $20 trillion in debt that can never be paid back with today's units of currency
Of course it can. Maybe not in a single year, but it can be paid back over time if the US Government collects more in taxes than it spends.
Quote:
qman said: there may be a day and time when bonds will have to be backed by gold before anyone decides to buy them!
Sure, if the US debt/GDP goes too high, but we're not there yet:
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: why does the Federal Reserve hold over 8,000 tons of gold if it has "no inherent worth"?
The Treasury owns the gold, not the Fed.
Quote:
qman said: The US has $20 trillion in debt that can never be paid back with today's units of currency
Of course it can. Maybe not in a single year, but it can be paid back over time if the US Government collects more in taxes than it spends.
Quote:
qman said: there may be a day and time when bonds will have to be backed by gold before anyone decides to buy them!
Sure, if the US debt/GDP goes too high, but we're not there yet:

Yes, the Treasury does own the gold, that still doesn't answer my question.
You and I both know the current debt will never be paid back with today's currency units, so enough of the fantasy land rhetoric.
"but we're not there yet"
Just wait until we have another recession and tax revenue starts tanking as deficits start exploding higher, it's just a matter of time.
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Enlil
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Re: Trump [Re: qman] 1
#23596734 - 08/31/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The debt will never be paid. That's the reality, and you might as well get used to it. Gold standard or not, the debt will climb until the economy finally crashes.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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qman
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Quote:
Crumist said: Not all developed nations are debtor nations. I would guess the "gold buying spree" is sales talk of the "sell overpriced precious metals to paranoid people for cool cash" industry. You may well be right (and therefore a potentially quite wealthy man) about the return to a gold standard, but we aren't there yet.
As it stands, the invisible, intangible, and corrupt mechanisms that set the price of the USD and Euro are seen as more stable than the supply and demand of any precious metal.
The US debt (or trade deficit) situation isn't any more or less hopeless with gold in the equation. I fail to see the connection.
"Not all developed nation are debtor nations"
Give a list of the one's with a surplus.
"sales talk"
Central banks being net buyers of gold in recent years is documented fact, for many years central banks were net sellers of gold.
When a country is losing it's gold reserves from trade deficits or debt they let the currency adjust to stop the outflow, this is basic logic.
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qman
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Re: Trump [Re: Enlil]
#23596747 - 08/31/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: The debt will never be paid. That's the reality, and you might as well get used to it. Gold standard or not, the debt will climb until the economy finally crashes.
I keep telling that to Fal, he keeps on insisting higher taxes would solve that issue.
My contention is that a gold standard might be established during/after the crash to restore confidence in the financial system.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Trump [Re: qman]
#23596759 - 08/31/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've never seen Fal claim that the debt will be repaid.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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