Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Topicals   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
unexplained ancient artifacts
    #22195993 - 09/06/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=78SM_X3Xti8

·The Baigong Pipes
·Stone spheres of Costa Rica
·Roman dodecahedron
·Gold "air-planes of south America
·The London Hammer

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196141 - 09/06/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The Roman dodecahedrons really caught my attention, what possible function could these things have?

Plutarch, the Greek historian claimed they were an astronomical device, but I still fail to understand how they would be used.

They said these things were often found with treasure and valuables, though I don't think they were purely decorative, I think they must have had some function...

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/dodecah.php#.VexOAeDnbmw
There's some interesting thoughts in the link above...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 49 minutes
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196183 - 09/06/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People often underestimate our ancestors. Every time we gain some new technology and it becomes basic to virtually everyone, everyone looks back on those who didn't have it and sees them as being primitive. Cars replaced horses, horses replaced walking. Gun replaced bow, bow replaced spear. You'll see it over and over again. Because their technology didn't hold up to ours, we automatically assume that they were as undavanced in every facet.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22196274 - 09/06/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
People often underestimate our ancestors. Every time we gain some new technology and it becomes basic to virtually everyone, everyone looks back on those who didn't have it and sees them as being primitive. Cars replaced horses, horses replaced walking. Gun replaced bow, bow replaced spear. You'll see it over and over again. Because their technology didn't hold up to ours, we automatically assume that they were as undavanced in every facet.




And this is a mistake as well.

Another issue I see is academics holding onto the accepted dogma even when we find a site like gobekli tepe...the site shows evidence of ritual use dating back to the 10th-8th millennium BCE, and includes massive stone structures with intricate raised carvings of animals.

We accept history as being fairly accurate, when in reality it's fairly filled with uncertainties, unknowns, and inaccuracies.

The London Hammer was interesting as well, though there may be other explanations in that case...

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/06/15 09:15 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196674 - 09/06/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
We accept history as being fairly accurate, when in reality it's fairly filled with uncertainties, unknowns, and inaccuracies.




Well, that's hardly disputed among historians, isn't it? I don't really see how the things you brought to the fore point at widespread scientific dogma; could you elaborate?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196682 - 09/06/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There's some interesting shit that happened back in the day that we may never understand. If the library of Alexandria hadn't been destroyed we might know about some of this stuff. I suspect the church was involved.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196721 - 09/06/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I was interested in an artifact from far more recent times as well(early 15th century), the The Voynich manuscript.

I first heard of the Voynich manuscript from terence mckenna, but what interested me more than his speculations on its origins was the unknown writing system in which it was composed. Several people have tried to decode, I think some one at Yale ran it through cryptography software and still could not decode it.

It may have been translated in recent times, I'm not sure, but as far as I know, it still has yet to be deciphered.

...there is a bizzare history behind it as well, but the facts are disputed and unclear.

The Antikythera mechanism interest me as well:

The Antikythera mechanism (/ˌæntɨkɨˈθɪərə/ ant-i-ki-theer-ə or /ˌæntɨˈkɪθərə/ ant-i-kith-ə-rə) is an ancient analog computer[1][2][3][4] designed to predict astronomical positions and eclipses for calendrical and astrological purposes,[5][6][7] as well as the Olympiads, the cycles of the ancient Olympic Games.

...the instrument has been dated either between 150 and 100 BCE,[5] or, according to a more recent view, at 205 BCE-Wikipedia

That's an incredibly complex piece of technology, yet history would tell you people of that time would have only been able to produce much more primitive devices, this thing has cogs and gears that are as intricate as most fine modern watches.

Some things out there may be hoaxes, but there's plenty of mystery in several of these confirmed objects and sites as well.

Our picture of human history seems to be vastly distorted, yet nobody is concerned about correcting this.

The Solutrean hypothesis suggest that when the ice sheet was around central Spain that these people could have followed the ice sheet into north America, possibly meeting and mixing with those who crossed the Bering land bridge, forming the Clovis culture. There is some stone tool comparisons and other archeological evidence to support this theory, though none of it conformational.

If we want to truly understand history we are going to have to rewrite it if the evidence suggests that our current views were incorrect, and there's a lot of backlash and hostility towards trying to revise the accepted notions regarding humans on this planet living during far distant past time periods...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 49 minutes
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196737 - 09/06/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The vonyich is one of the things I want answers to the most. Possible it was just some fantasy novel type shit, but it's intriguing anyways.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22196738 - 09/06/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
We accept history as being fairly accurate, when in reality it's fairly filled with uncertainties, unknowns, and inaccuracies.




Well, that's hardly disputed among historians, isn't it? I don't really see how the things you brought to the fore point at widespread scientific dogma; could you elaborate?





I suppose ideas such as Neolithic era people were incapable of advanced stone work and construction, they were supposed to be Hunter gatherers at that point...but then look at gobekli tepe.

They say the first to make it to america did so by the Bering land bridge around 16,500–13,000 years ago, while there is building evidence to suggest that that several others may have been there first .

I elaborated some in my last post, but it seems like dogma when they are holding onto these beliefs in face of contradictory evidence...

I mean there are many other examples, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/06/15 11:14 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196745 - 09/06/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You haven't explained the rest of those, we are supposed to google them ourselves? The dode is probably a symbol, perhaps religious.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: nicechrisman]
    #22196785 - 09/06/15 11:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
There's some interesting shit that happened back in the day that we may never understand. If the library of Alexandria hadn't been destroyed we might know about some of this stuff. I suspect the church was involved.




Do you think if our internet were somehow destroyed it would be analogous to the destruction of the library at alexandria?

I attempt to make metaphors so I may better understand how these events may have felt to these people or impacted them.

Also had barbarians not laid waste to the pelloponesian peninsula and shortly after the Roman empire causing the dark ages, from about 500 A.D to 1300 ad (though the actual dates are disputed), 8 hundred years where very little was accomplished and the prior knowledge had become lost...we may have been 800 years more advance had that not happened.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196792 - 09/06/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Again, that doesn't make for scientific dogma. The things you mention are absolutely fascinating and obviously, they aren't fully understood - that's what makes them so interesting. Sure, the Antikythera mechanism is exceptional in both its purpose (whatever it exactly is) and its manufacturing. But no serious historian or archaeologist would call ancient Greek civilization 'primitive'. The concept that people in ancient societies would somehow be unintelligent or incapable of dealing with complex concepts is really not a part of mainstream science and it hasn't been for decades. I always get the feeling that people who blame scientists for being dogmatic are really raging against a prejudice rather than reality.

Quote:

Some things out there may be hoaxes, but there's plenty of mystery in several of these confirmed objects and sites as well.



I think many, if not most, of these tantalizing artifacts are certainly not hoaxes. However, many of the explanations that have been connected with them are extremely disputable. It seems inherent to human imagination that in the lack of an overwhelmingly obvious and well-founded explanation, some people manage to come up with the most fantastic stories and the proceed to claim that these explanations are as good as any other - even if they involve assumptions that are at odds with other, well-established and well-supported theories. But a lack of clarity on the purpose, history or context of mysterious artifacts doesn't mean that all of our knowledge about human history is doubtful.

These artifacts serve as a reminder that the boundary of knowledge is still there to be pushed, and even though some things are well within those boundaries, there will always be things close to it that we want to understand better. It doesn't mean we need to rewrite our knowledge of human history in its entirety. It just signifies the incremental nature of scientific analysis and the undisputed fact that this also involves revising aspects that were disputed or speculative in the first place.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22196796 - 09/06/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You haven't explained the rest of those, we are supposed to google them ourselves? The dode is probably a symbol, perhaps religious.





I figured some would already know what these things were, and it would be review and waste of space for me to go into detail on every object, but I'll gladly write something up if you think it would improve the thread.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196813 - 09/06/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I suppose ideas such as Neolithic era people were incapable of advanced stone work and construction, they were supposed to be Hunter gatherers at that point...but then look at gobekli tepe.



But who says that the established view is that hunter-gatherers would be stupid or incapable of performing complex tasks? The interesting thing about gobeleki is that it seems to be at the very dawn of the more complex forms of organization that we associate with an agricultural lifestyle, excess food production (freeing up manpower for essentially non-food producing work) and the associated practice of division of labor. It's at the edge of our current understanding of the transition of a hunter-gatherer society to a farmer society. It doesn't undermine our concept of that transition, but offers food for thought and evidence of how that transition may have taken place. In fact, it seems perfectly in line with how we imagine society may have evolved, and it gives us the opportunity to refine that image.

Quote:

I mean there are many other examples, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.



I do, but I think the dogma you blame scientists for having is really a misunderstanding on your (and others) part of how science builds knowledge. Proposing ideas and the falsifying them is essential to this process, so some degree of rigidity is essential in building reliable knowledge. This isn't dogma, it's carefully managed progress.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22196848 - 09/06/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Again, that doesn't make for scientific dogma. The things you mention are absolutely fascinating and obviously, they aren't fully understood - that's what makes them so interesting. Sure, the Antikythera mechanism is exceptional in both its purpose (whatever it exactly is) and its manufacturing. But no serious historian or archaeologist would call ancient Greek civilization 'primitive'. The concept that people in ancient societies would somehow be unintelligent or incapable of dealing with complex concepts is really not a part of mainstream science and it hasn't been for decades. I always get the feeling that people who blame scientists for being dogmatic are really raging against a prejudice rather than reality.

Quote:

Some things out there may be hoaxes, but there's plenty of mystery in several of these confirmed objects and sites as well.



I think many, if not most, of these tantalizing artifacts are certainly not hoaxes. However, many of the explanations that have been connected with them are extremely disputable. It seems inherent to human imagination that in the lack of an overwhelmingly obvious and well-founded explanation, some people manage to come up with the most fantastic stories and the proceed to claim that these explanations are as good as any other - even if they involve assumptions that are at odds with other, well-established and well-supported theories. But a lack of clarity on the purpose, history or context of mysterious artifacts doesn't mean that all of our knowledge about human history is doubtful.

These artifacts serve as a reminder that the boundary of knowledge is still there to be pushed, and even though some things are well within those boundaries, there will always be things close to it that we want to understand better. It doesn't mean we need to rewrite our knowledge of human history in its entirety. It just signifies the incremental nature of scientific analysis and the undisputed fact that this also involves revising aspects that were disputed or speculative in the first place.




Damn, that was a really good response.

I suppose I only see there being some form of dogma just due to the hostility in challenging the accepted norms, some scientists have built their careers around the their us they accept as being correct, and when a person challenges the accepted theories there is always plenty backlash.

Rewriting of human history may have been an extreme statement, perhaps "modify existing history and fill in the gaps according to the new evidence" would have more appropriately described my sentiment.

I still believe there is far more that we do not know when it comes to man's time on this planet...and pretending to have it generally figured out may be detrimental to actually understanding what really happened. If you look through the view of the accepted theories you would rather dismiss the anomalies than incorporate them into or alter your views. If you look at it through no filters at all, saying I know nothing and I assume nothing, now let's sit down and build the story based off of what is at hand, we would probably actually gain a better representation of our past...

thank you for you input, I think you made really  points and arguments.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22196876 - 09/06/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for your kind words! I think we're probably really talking about the same thing. I can see how the inherent rigidity of scientists can come across as dogma - and arguably, some people (and therefore scientists too) are dogmatic. But I don't believe science is systematically dogmatic. If scientists come across as rigid when their theories (or the ones they subscribe to) are being challenged, in my experience it's usually because they have a relatively good overview of the evidence and the methods used in collecting and interpreting that evidence, and they are cautious of new ideas that still have little evidence and/or doubtful research/analytical methods associated with them. But if these new ideas have sufficient face validity, I believe that there will always be people who will keep investigate them seriously. If that results in sufficient evidence, then these ideas will be included into the main body of knowledge. Despite what many people outside academia believe, there are no really effective ways for individual scientists or groups of scientists to systematically and definitively suppress new knowledge from being created.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22196902 - 09/06/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I suppose ideas such as Neolithic era people were incapable of advanced stone work and construction, they were supposed to be Hunter gatherers at that point...but then look at gobekli tepe.



But who says that the established view is that hunter-gatherers would be stupid or incapable of performing complex tasks? The interesting thing about gobeleki is that it seems to be at the very dawn of the more complex forms of organization that we associate with an agricultural lifestyle, excess food production (freeing up manpower for essentially non-food producing work) and the associated practice of division of labor. It's at the edge of our current understanding of the transition of a hunter-gatherer society to a farmer society. It doesn't undermine our concept of that transition, but offers food for thought and evidence of how that transition may have taken place. In fact, it seems perfectly in line with how we imagine society may have evolved, and it gives us the opportunity to refine that image.

Quote:

I mean there are many other examples, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.



I do, but I think the dogma you blame scientists for having is really a misunderstanding on your (and others) part of how science builds knowledge. Proposing ideas and the falsifying them is essential to this process, so some degree of rigidity is essential in building reliable knowledge. This isn't dogma, it's carefully managed progress.




Gobekli tepe also was not a living center, a town or a city, it was a temple built in the middle of nowhere essentially, a gathering point for several cultures, as the stone animal reliefs depict animals not native to the region, perhaps it does symbolize the point when Neolithic  transitioned to agriculture, but at the same time the accepted theories say these people were not in possession of the tools necessary to build a gobekli tepe at that time, so something must be altered.

Your correct on what the scientific theory is supposed to be, but science is full of humans, interested in further their careers, obtaining grants and funds as well as recognition and credit. A good deal of scientists are money hungry grab-tailing weasels, but I think I'm starting to let too much of my subjectivity alter my view, I wish the scientists would catch themselves when they do the same. The scientific method as you described is great, but as I said before, some of these guys have built their entire careers on these theories, and will fight tooth and nail to preserve the incorrect views as well as their position as an "expert" in the community...the humans are flawed not the science.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22196916 - 09/06/15 11:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Thanks for your kind words! I think we're probably really talking about the same thing. I can see how the inherent rigidity of scientists can come across as dogma - and arguably, some people (and therefore scientists too) are dogmatic. But I don't believe science is systematically dogmatic. If scientists come across as rigid when their theories (or the ones they subscribe to) are being challenged, in my experience it's usually because they have a relatively good overview of the evidence and the methods used in collecting and interpreting that evidence, and they are cautious of new ideas that still have little evidence and/or doubtful research/analytical methods associated with them. But if these new ideas have sufficient face validity, I believe that there will always be people who will keep investigate them seriously. If that results in sufficient evidence, then these ideas will be included into the main body of knowledge. Despite what many people outside academia believe, there are no really effective ways for individual scientists or groups of scientists to systematically and definitively suppress new knowledge from being created.




I suppose my last post was unnecessary, I should have read this before I posted it.

Koraks said:
there are no really effective ways for individual scientists or groups of scientists to systematically and definitively suppress new knowledge from being created

Again good point, I can't argue with you there, because there will be backlash, but ultimately the evidence will counter it.

Thanks again for your input!

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22196986 - 09/06/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
You haven't explained the rest of those, we are supposed to google them ourselves? The dode is probably a symbol, perhaps religious.




The YouTube link at the top of the initial post is a seven minute video describing every object listed in great detail, that's where I generated the list from, I figured people would watch the video than discuss the objects, but maybe I'm overestimating some people.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22197070 - 09/06/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're right, science is a human affair and therefore subject to human flaws. Let's hope the method itself and the many scientists with an ambition to actually do the right thing will help to keep it on track.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22197073 - 09/06/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
The vonyich is one of the things I want answers to the most. Possible it was just some fantasy novel type shit, but it's intriguing anyways.




The vonyich manuscipt is a legitimate artifact. The vonyich manuscipt has been confirmed to be dated from the 1400s I believe, and has yet to be deciphered....so I'm not sure I understand the fantasy novel comment

Another indecipherable object is The Phaistos Disc

Yves Duhoux (1977) dates the disc to between 1850 B.C. and 1600 B.C. (MMIII) on the basis of Luigi Pernier's report, which says that the Disc was in a Middle Minoan undisturbed context. Jeppesen (1963) dates it to after 1400 (LMII-III). Doubting the viability of Pernier's report, Louis Godart (1990) resigns himself to admitting that archaeologically, the disc may be dated to anywhere in Middle or Late Minoan times (MMI-LMIII, a period spanning most of the second millennium B.C.). J. Best suggests a date in the first half of the fourteenth century B.C. (LMIIIA) based on his dating of tablet PH 1.-Wikipedia

I'm very interested in anagrams and cryptography, so these objects have fascinated me, these unbreakable codes.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22197075 - 09/06/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
You're right, science is a human affair and therefore subject to human flaws. Let's hope the method itself and the many scientists with an ambition to actually do the right thing will help to keep it on track.




Agreed.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22197076 - 09/06/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=78SM_X3Xti8

·The Baigong Pipes




naturally occuring like the Navajo pipes


·
Quote:

Stone spheres of Costa Rica




carved by people

Quote:

·Roman dodecahedron




bronze casting, probably just decorative

Quote:

·Gold "air-planes of south America




stylized, zoomorphic depiction of some kind, probably a bird


Quote:

·The London Hammer




cementation of a more modern hammer such as was produced in the 1800s into an
existing rock layer by soluble minerals in that rock


now they're explained
-E. Borodin




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22197088 - 09/06/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Gobekli tepe also was not a living center, a town or a city, it was a temple built in the middle of nowhere essentially, a gathering point for several cultures, as the stone animal reliefs depict animals not native to the region, perhaps it does symbolize the point when Neolithic  transitioned to agriculture, but at the same time the accepted theories say these people were not in possession of the tools necessary to build a gobekli tepe at that time, so something must be altered.







stone can be used to carve and shape stone


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22197267 - 09/06/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for explaining it all pris. Some op's expect others to do the research, can't be bothered to make a one paragraph explanation of what they are talking about.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAdolin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22197379 - 09/06/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

·The Baigong Pipes




i wonder why there are just so few pictures, and none of them are of the same pipe? and all of the pictures are really shitty quality? seems sketch to me

i wonder if they are still being studied or anything


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasked
The Nutter
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 8,979
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Adolin]
    #22197409 - 09/06/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

very cool thread guys.  Loving all the intricate responses


--------------------
.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22197428 - 09/06/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I really don't see how the Baigong Pipes are that mysterious. Its crazy that people see these same things and jump to 'ancient aliens' and shit like that


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Adolin]
    #22197482 - 09/06/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gresh said:
Quote:

·The Baigong Pipes




i wonder why there are just so few pictures, and none of them are of the same pipe? and all of the pictures are really shitty quality? seems sketch to me

i wonder if they are still being studied or anything





it's because china wont allow any studies to be done and it's still only a minor tourist attraction


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAdolin
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,292
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22197662 - 09/06/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

what a bunch of tightasses


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Adolin] * 1
    #22197667 - 09/06/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

sorry man...

"it was all aliens... Woo0oO000ooooo"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22197716 - 09/06/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:ancientaliens:


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22197757 - 09/06/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The roman dodechahedron is the most interesting, not because I think its got any association with aliens or any of the conspiracy type theories, but because its interesting to speculate what it was used for.
Candle holder theory doesn't make much sense based on its shape.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 2 minutes, 14 seconds
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Ezuma]
    #22198033 - 09/06/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

all these things have reasonable and likely explanations. Lol the gold airplanes - obviously they are birds. The fact this guy included those doesn't inspire much faith that he knows what has and hasn't been explained.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 2 minutes, 14 seconds
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koods]
    #22198045 - 09/06/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cementation of a more modern hammer such as was produced in the 1800s into an
existing rock layer by soluble minerals in that rock




just looking at it you can tell it is some kind of stalagmite type rock.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koods]
    #22198058 - 09/06/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

These ancient aliens type shows are pretty amusing I recall one where a crappy wooden toy bird was being described as 'proof the Egyptians had the power of flight' which in turn somehow proved ancient aliens gave them that knowledge
:facepalm:
I wonder what % of viewers actually take these kinds of things at face value and believe them...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 49 minutes
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22198193 - 09/06/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

Shroomslip said:
The vonyich is one of the things I want answers to the most. Possible it was just some fantasy novel type shit, but it's intriguing anyways.




The vonyich manuscipt is a legitimate artifact. The vonyich manuscipt has been confirmed to be dated from the 1400s I believe, and has yet to be deciphered....so I'm not sure I understand the fantasy novel comment

Another indecipherable object is The Phaistos Disc

Yves Duhoux (1977) dates the disc to between 1850 B.C. and 1600 B.C. (MMIII) on the basis of Luigi Pernier's report, which says that the Disc was in a Middle Minoan undisturbed context. Jeppesen (1963) dates it to after 1400 (LMII-III). Doubting the viability of Pernier's report, Louis Godart (1990) resigns himself to admitting that archaeologically, the disc may be dated to anywhere in Middle or Late Minoan times (MMI-LMIII, a period spanning most of the second millennium B.C.). J. Best suggests a date in the first half of the fourteenth century B.C. (LMIIIA) based on his dating of tablet PH 1.-Wikipedia

I'm very interested in anagrams and cryptography, so these objects have fascinated me, these unbreakable codes.

-E. Borodin



As in, it's possible it was just someone who was really bored making stuff up for the sake of making it up. It's filled with pictures of plants that don't exist. It could've just been a total work of fiction made purely for entertainment. I'd love to know what it says though.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22198206 - 09/06/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I quite liked mckenna's theory about the voyonich manuscript, that it was made specifically to capitalize on a craze for the occult and alchemy. I suspect that might be true or partly true


Edited by Ezuma (09/06/15 04:47 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Ezuma]
    #22198263 - 09/06/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
The roman dodechahedron is the most interesting, not because I think its got any association with aliens or any of the conspiracy type theories, but because its interesting to speculate what it was used for.
Candle holder theory doesn't make much sense based on its shape.





why doesnt it make sense? not everything back them was purely function, there were
a lot of aesthetics associated with functional objects as well. given that some of
the photos I've seen have some of the sides blocked off it suggests that the
blocked side was meant to face a wall while it reflected light into a room


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLackToast
Stranger
Registered: 08/28/10
Posts: 217
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Ezuma]
    #22198362 - 09/06/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Im the type to easily fall for bullcrap shows that show crazy notions being the only possible explination.I imagine there were 50 foot giants who walked around moving masive objects. and aliens rode dinosaurs, And the comets that started the ice age was actually sent by aliens, from a giant space cannon they held on the moon. And they planted a bunch of crops and wildlife. And theyre are totally invisble gnomes that run around.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: LackToast]
    #22206075 - 09/08/15 08:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Stone spheres of Costa Rica



carved by people




These were anomalous objects because their use is mysterious, they were obviously man made, we just don't know why man made them.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206097 - 09/08/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

·Roman dodecahedron



bronze casting, probably just decorative




These were often discovered with treasure and peoples valuables, so they May have been the ancient equivalent of a Fabergé egg, these we also found made of stone, and the near identical structure of these objects suggest that they may have been more than decoration, for if they were decoration you would expect to see artistic additions and modifications to the original design, "Plutarch, the famous Greek historian reportedly identified the dodecahedron as a vital instrument for zodiac signs", though he never explains how...

The mystery here, again, is, what are these for?

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206128 - 09/08/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

·Gold "air-planes of south America



stylized, zoomorphic depiction of some kind, probably a bird




Have you ever seen an insect or a bird with its wings on the bottom?



All of these have the wings on their underside, they are all aerodynamic to a degree beyond decoration, and scale models which were giving motors flew perfectly.

I'm not a fan of ancient aliens, I honestly despise that program, I don't think aliens had anything to do with this, I think ancient man was far more advanced then we give them credit for...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206131 - 09/08/15 08:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

As for the London Hammer, I assumed it was a fake or a modern object that somehow was invaded in stone.

I can't say about the pipes in China, I don't know enough about them...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206168 - 09/08/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Gobekli tepe also was not a living center, a town or a city, it was a temple built in the middle of nowhere essentially, a gathering point for several cultures, as the stone animal reliefs depict animals not native to the region, perhaps it does symbolize the point when Neolithic  transitioned to agriculture, but at the same time the accepted theories say these people were not in possession of the tools necessary to build a gobekli tepe at that time, so something must be altered.







stone can be used to carve and shape stone






These are intricate carvings, that likely would have required tools more advanced than shaped stones, but since I'm not a stone mason, I can't say with certainty...

This site was constructed in the Neolithic, we were said to be  nomadic Hunter gatherers at that time,with little to no tools, no agriculture to support a workforce, they did not have any of the essentials needed for a project like gobekli tepe...

Man must have been more technologically advanced than we believed him to be in ancient times...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206208 - 09/08/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see how that wouldn't have been possible with stone tools. The Egyptians built the pyramids including their many intricate carvings with stone and wooden tools as well.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22206219 - 09/08/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Thanks for explaining it all pris. Some op's expect others to do the research, can't be bothered to make a one paragraph explanation of what they are talking about.




The link in the initial post is for a short (7 minute) video where every object is described in detail, I generated the list from this video, so I expected people would watch the video and discuss the objects, why would I have to waste all the time and space explaining every object when I posted a very short video to do just that?

...and yes, if your in a thread about ancient objects, I'm going to assume that you know something about ancient objects...and in case you don't, I posted a link to the film detailing, it's the VERY TOP of my first post...I hardly consider a 7 minute film "research", it takes seven minutes of your time. Again maybe I'm overestimating some people, but I assume the people reading these things a knowledgeable to the point where I would not have to waste all the time and space reviewing the objects detailed in the link, that was the point of the link and the source of the list of objects. I did not just randomly select these objects, the list is from the short film, linked at the top of the first post.

I'm sorry that your so opposed to having to do any research...
When I'm reading a thread and I don't know something being discussed, I actually enjoy looking it up, doing a little research and learning something new, I figured due to the nature of my topics the readers would have this same enthusiasm.

...and for those who don't, I linked the short video explaining every object in detail at the top of my initial post.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 2 minutes, 14 seconds
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22206232 - 09/08/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

they are all aerodynamic to a degree beyond decoration




How does this prove they are airplanes? I think it proves they are birds, which are more aerodynamically optimized


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206233 - 09/08/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

the thing about those gold airplanes is that they mostly all have tail wings, birds only have a tail, not tail "wings".  Some of them look a lot like birds, others sort of like bugs.  the 2 in the middle almost look like they are fakes tho thrown in and hoping nobody questioned if they were authentic


thing is the head on all of them resemble animals, so that throws everything into question.  if they were advanced enough to make planes, and these were copys of them, why have animal heads?

it would make sense if they were recreating something they saw that they didn't make, or it was a toy and given animals heads for kids I guess, but why would kids need gold toys.  have they found any other gold toys at all?


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22206241 - 09/08/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I don't see how that wouldn't have been possible with stone tools. The Egyptians built the pyramids including their many intricate carvings with stone and wooden tools as well.




The Egyptians were not a stone age culture, they were far out of the Neolithic, and had more advancements in technology. I also feel we underestimated the Egyptians technological capabilities.

At the time gobekli tepe was built, we were said to have little more than pointy rocks on sticks, we had no agriculture so you could not feed a work force, and gobekli tepe was a BIG site...

What the Egyptians did was amazing, but gobekli tepe should have been impossible...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koods]
    #22206285 - 09/08/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

they are all aerodynamic to a degree beyond decoration




How does this prove they are airplanes? I think it proves they are birds, which are more aerodynamically optimized




Birds and insects all have their wings on the top of their body, , the gold figures all have wings on the bottom,and birds and insects don't have vertical tail stabilizers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabilizer_(aeronautics)

Plus the aerodynamics of a plane a very specific, any small error will cause failure.

These objects are all confirmed artifacts, no fakes are pictured.

I've seen the animal and insect representations of the culture said to have produced these artifacts, they look like birds and insects...These do not...

I'm not saying what it means, I'm just saying we are missing something when it comes to human history, humans must have been far more technologically advanced than we give them credit for...


-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206315 - 09/08/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

koraks said:
I don't see how that wouldn't have been possible with stone tools. The Egyptians built the pyramids including their many intricate carvings with stone and wooden tools as well.




The Egyptians were not a stone age culture, they were far out of the Neolithic



You're correct, my remark was uninformed. The Egyptians did use bronze tools.
I also don't contest that they were technologically very advanced. The precision with which they built their monuments is astounding.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22206338 - 09/08/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
the thing about those gold airplanes is that they mostly all have tail wings, birds only have a tail, not tail "wings".  Some of them look a lot like birds, others sort of like bugs.  the 2 in the middle almost look like they are fakes tho thrown in and hoping nobody questioned if they were authentic


thing is the head on all of them resemble animals, so that throws everything into question.  if they were advanced enough to make planes, and these were copys of them, why have animal heads?

it would make sense if they were recreating something they saw that they didn't make, or it was a toy and given animals heads for kids I guess, but why would kids need gold toys.  have they found any other gold toys at all?




They are not toys, I'm guessing they discovered this knowledge about aerodynamics, and to preserve the information cast it in gold, like a scale guide, if your building a plane do it to these EXACT specifications and it will fly, they were preservation of the information, maybe even scale models used to aide construction...

the plane dead center in that photograph has front propellers and a tail stablizer...you can wind up a propeller, just like the rubber band cardboard air-plane toys, but builds to human scale, perhaps they would launch off of a cliff, then release the rope winding the propeller, they would achieve flight beyond gliding with the tension powered front propeller, but they would need a cliff to launch from...

I think the gold representations were meant to be used the exact way they were used in the modern test, you build it by the exact specifications and measurements as the gold model, only scaled up.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCwL6-L1kk
So just like the test described in the link above, you build it by the exact dimensions as the gold model, only you scale it up, it could have been a guide for ancient plane builders...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206366 - 09/08/15 09:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



the more you look at them the more it looks like its representing a person.  this one looks like those rings people put around their necks to lengthen the neck.  then the posts coming out of the face looks like face modifications.  not sure about the 4 posts at the tail tho



again if you look, its a face with the mouth wide open, these faces could be masks as well, people wore masks a lot for some reason.

the loops on the wings of this one sure is odd tho.  maybe the wings represent a persons ears, and those are holes from ear modification



from the side it looks ALOT like a statue of a person


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22206381 - 09/08/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

koraks said:
I don't see how that wouldn't have been possible with stone tools. The Egyptians built the pyramids including their many intricate carvings with stone and wooden tools as well.




The Egyptians were not a stone age culture, they were far out of the Neolithic



You're correct, my remark was uninformed. The Egyptians did use bronze tools.
I also don't contest that they were technologically very advanced. The precision with which they built their monuments is astounding.




I agree, even with the accepted known Egyptian technology It seems near impossible...

I'm still learning as I go here as well, but is is fascinating stuff!


-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206388 - 09/08/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
the thing about those gold airplanes is that they mostly all have tail wings, birds only have a tail, not tail "wings".  Some of them look a lot like birds, others sort of like bugs.  the 2 in the middle almost look like they are fakes tho thrown in and hoping nobody questioned if they were authentic


thing is the head on all of them resemble animals, so that throws everything into question.  if they were advanced enough to make planes, and these were copys of them, why have animal heads?

it would make sense if they were recreating something they saw that they didn't make, or it was a toy and given animals heads for kids I guess, but why would kids need gold toys.  have they found any other gold toys at all?




They are not toys, I'm guessing they discovered this knowledge about aerodynamics, and to preserve the information cast it in gold, like a scale guide, if your building a plane do it to these EXACT specifications and it will fly, they were preservation of the information, maybe even scale models used to aide construction...

the plane dead center in that photograph has front propellers and a tail stablizer...you can wind up a propeller, just like the rubber band cardboard air-plane toys, but builds to human scale, perhaps they would launch off of a cliff, then release the rope winding the propeller, they would achieve flight beyond gliding with the tension powered front propeller, but they would need a cliff to launch from...

I think the gold representations were meant to be used the exact way they were used in the modern test, you build it by the exact specifications and measurements as the gold model, only scaled up.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCwL6-L1kk
So just like the test described in the link above, you build it by the exact dimensions as the gold model, only you scale it up, it could have been a guide for ancient plane builders...

-E. Borodin




Sorry about all the typos, I don't have tome to do it now, but I'll correct the.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22206392 - 09/08/15 09:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What the Egyptians did was amazing, but gobekli tepe should have been impossible...




why was it supposed to be impossible?  the pictures im looking at look super primitive and they didn't even cut their stone straight


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206405 - 09/08/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, we frankly don't have a clue how they did it exactly, e.g. achieving the high accuracy in alignment. It would be very interesting to witness them at work if just for a day, to see how they managed the workforce, how different specialists would have been active in different places of the building site, what instruments they used, etc. Fact is that very little information or artifacts have been passed down or dug up that say anything about how they constructed their monuments. Which is a pity really; it seems they really found the purpose (i.e. religious, social) far more important than the method.

I think this illustrates the usefulness of documenting accurately and in a long-term stable way how our present-day technology works. Even technology as recent as a few decades ago sometimes is almost a mystery to today - case in point are the tape recorders used to record the imagery of the initial exploration of the surface of the moon. The documentation of this equipment was lost by NASA, quite nearly making the resulting and unique images inaccessible to mankind. This just goes to show how quickly our collective memory can fade.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22206425 - 09/08/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



when I look at this picture I see something that might be hard work and time consuming but it doesn't look anything nearly as impressive as the pyrimids.  it just looks like heavy shit and lots of hammer chisel work.  none of the cuts are straight.  they prolly didn't even cut those top edges


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206481 - 09/08/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Coin, all I asked was a paragraph explaining what it was, kind of like what pris did. I did not ask for a detailed explanation of each one. I don't like clicking links or watching u tube videos that often turn out to be long. I want to see at a glance if its something I'm interested in.

mac, many cultures put human carvings at the front of their ships. Some used animal figures, from that we get the expression 'figure head' or someone who does nothing but stands out in front.

Why couldn't hard stone like flint or granite be used to carve softer stone? I would not discount the possibility of aliens having landed in the past, or in recent times, lol. Lots of eye witnesses and sober people who swear to it.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8] * 1
    #22206763 - 09/08/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

What the Egyptians did was amazing, but gobekli tepe should have been impossible...




why was it supposed to be impossible?  the pictures im looking at look super primitive and they didn't even cut their stone straight




Again, only because this was a Epipaleolithic–Neolithic 'transition' site, *I was not accurate when I said it was a Neolithic site, I'm still learning this as well* ,
Quote:

Epipaleolithic" is a term used for the "final Upper Palaeolithic industries occurring at the end of the final glaciation which appear to merge technologically into the Mesolithic".[1] The period is generally dated from 20,000 BP to about 10,500 BP, having emerged from the Palaeolithic era. [2] The term is sometimes used as a synonym of "Mesolithic". When a distinction is made, "Epipaleolithic" stresses the continuity with the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic as we understand it today, whilst "Protoneolithic" stresses a subsequent transition to the Neolithic-wikipedia


there are large stone pillar circles , These pillars are huge, most of the site has yet to be excavated, but the site is huge as well, and looking into what Epipalaeolithic had in terms of accumulated knowledge as well as technology, it seems near impossible to build a gobekli tepe, now, it WAS built by humans, I study known archeological facts not wild UFO speculation, I think there are cultures that were far more advanced then we give them credit, and it seems like these people, comming out of the last ice age, already had accumulated knowledge, suggesting civilization is FAR older than we believe it to be, I'm interested in science, I'm indifferent to alien theories.

The temple was built 11,500 years ago, 700 hundred years before the pyramid at giza, so I still think what the Egyptians did was amazing, but this is incredible, how did they move and lift those giant stone pillars? What tools were used to carve these things, where did the engineering knowledge come from? And so on...
I think it's remarkable..


-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206798 - 09/08/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



I think the stone work is actually quite intricate, (keep in mind these carvings are 7,000 years older than the pyramid at giza, and have been in the ground for a LONG time)

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206898 - 09/08/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

those pillars don't look that big tho, they are shorter than a ladder....  ive seen far bigger stone in other works.  Those pillars could easily be moved with rope, horses, long lines of people, or with a couple magic sliders


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22206936 - 09/08/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



is it just me or does it look like the floor is poured cement, and the base to the big pillar offcenter right looks poured cement as well?

that would explain a lot, for example the carvings are sticking out, which means they either shaved all the stone around the engravings which would have taken FOREVER, or they used a different tactic like poured cement/stone.

If it was poured cement, after 10,000 years or whatever, it might be hard to tell that it was made like that.  I mean I don't know how they say its stone and not poured is what im getting at, what methods are they using to determine that and would 10,000 years affect their results


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22206941 - 09/08/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

Shroomslip said:
The vonyich is one of the things I want answers to the most. Possible it was just some fantasy novel type shit, but it's intriguing anyways.




The vonyich manuscipt is a legitimate artifact. The vonyich manuscipt has been confirmed to be dated from the 1400s I believe, and has yet to be deciphered....so I'm not sure I understand the fantasy novel comment

Another indecipherable object is The Phaistos Disc

Yves Duhoux (1977) dates the disc to between 1850 B.C. and 1600 B.C. (MMIII) on the basis of Luigi Pernier's report, which says that the Disc was in a Middle Minoan undisturbed context. Jeppesen (1963) dates it to after 1400 (LMII-III). Doubting the viability of Pernier's report, Louis Godart (1990) resigns himself to admitting that archaeologically, the disc may be dated to anywhere in Middle or Late Minoan times (MMI-LMIII, a period spanning most of the second millennium B.C.). J. Best suggests a date in the first half of the fourteenth century B.C. (LMIIIA) based on his dating of tablet PH 1.-Wikipedia

I'm very interested in anagrams and cryptography, so these objects have fascinated me, these unbreakable codes.

-E. Borodin



As in, it's possible it was just someone who was really bored making stuff up for the sake of making it up. It's filled with pictures of plants that don't exist. It could've just been a total work of fiction made purely for entertainment. I'd love to know what it says though.




Ok, I see what you mean.

There's a connection mckenna made, ed Kelley told John Dee he fell asleep in a tomb and awoke with a bizzare book and a vile of red powder. If mckenna was right and Dee sold the voynich manuscript to Rudolph II, than its possible that Kelley did just find this thing. Though ed Kelley is said to have had no ears, generally they remove the ears of con-men and thieves so if an earless person comes around you know not to trust them. so Dee and Kelley could have made this thing with the intention of fetching a high price for it...Though it has been run through computers at Yale and could not be translated...one debunker showed how using a graph of letters and a cardboard sheet with randomly spaced holes supperimposed over the graph of letters, then you write the letters in the cut out holes on another paper, it creates a "language" that doesn't mean anything and can not be translated
...though if this was the case why does there appear to be so many similairties to known languages?

It is a true mystery with a bizzare history, dating tells us it's from around 15 century, and while John Dee (13 July 1527 – 1608 or 1609) was not alive in the 1400s, which punches a hole in the Dee as the author theory, he could have had an old book from the 1400s with blank pages that he filled in, paper was not produced in industrial quantities and older books may have been used if available....maybe ed Kelley really did find it, and I'm sure that Kelley and Dee sold it to Rudolph through a third party, but the book itself would still been a mystery, if it was Dee and Kelley where did they get it? If it was nit Dee then where did this thing come from? I've heard it had connection to the alchemists Roger bacon, but I'm not sure if that's accurate either...

An interesting mystery regardless.



--------

As for the gobekli tepe post response, those pillars are 6-18feet tall, the tallest are 18 feet in height and weigh 16 tons, this is 7000 years before the pyramid at giza, predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel. Gobekli tepe is Dated to be 11,500 - 12,000 years old.



-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEzuma
Gontish Wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 21 days
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22206951 - 09/08/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I dunno to me it just looks like kinda a dumb candle holder, though I guess we've got lots of dumb designs now. My money would be on it being just some sort of bizarre instrument for some sort of astronomy based pseudo science maybe, or simply decorative. Either way though, not particularly mysterious


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206957 - 09/08/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

maybe its just a board game like monopoly


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22206992 - 09/08/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:


is it just me or does it look like the floor is poured cement, and the base to the big pillar offcenter right looks poured cement as well?

that would explain a lot, for example the carvings are sticking out, which means they either shaved all the stone around the engravings which would have taken FOREVER, or they used a different tactic like poured cement/stone.

If it was poured cement, after 10,000 years or whatever, it might be hard to tell that it was made like that.  I mean I don't know how they say its stone and not poured is what im getting at, what methods are they using to determine that and would 10,000 years affect their results




I'm certain they are carved stone, though I can't find any information as to the type of stone.

Gobekli tepe is said to have been intentionally buried under sand and abandoned, so it's been under ground for a LONG time, which may create that appearance...still as I said before, those pillars are 6-18feet tall, the tallest are 18 feet in height and weigh 16 tons, this is 7000 years before the pyramid at giza, predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel. Gobekli tepe is Dated to be 11,500 - 12,000 years old.

...and that blows my mind!

Also, They should have had no prior engineering or masonery knowledge at that point, yet they built this large intricate temple, with massive stone blocks... if civilization is only as old as they say, then gobekli tepe holds some mysteries...I think civilization is MUCH older than we think it is...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22207171 - 09/08/15 01:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

yah it takes the perfect circumsatances for things to be preserved enough for us to find them.  even then under the best, there's still going to be a limit to how long things can last.  then you have retards messing with it over time, natural disasters, ect.

the most interesting thing is how all of these carvings and drawings aren't massively fucked with to be honest.  like if civilization fell apart today, everyone would go around drawing dicks on all the great works we have, yet all the pictures I ever see of these ancient drawings and shit, none of them have been graffti'd up or messed with both before it was forgotten and after it was found, just seems a bit odd. 

another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather, they have no aspirations to make artifacts.  so whats interesting is, what suddenly makes people want to build shit, instead of just continue to hunt.  most likely easier lives, having the time and wealth.  so not only are we finding these old buildings, but that also means a lot of shit happened long long before they got built as well.  like those people in the congo could go another 50,000 years and still not build anything due to the constant struggles


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22208292 - 09/08/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather

All of Africa was like that when Europeans came over. They would still be like that if no one had discovered them.

The dode probably had astronomical, astrological and religious meanings.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22208345 - 09/08/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

lots of parts of the congo still are like that and surely other parts of Africa, they don't even have running water.  that's the only reason I even know about it cuss some dude building water wells over there cuss he's like .0001% pigmeat or something and identifies them as family, and writes books and makes movies and yah he seems to be cashing in quiet well but I guess he's gotta make a living at the same time but it still leaves a funny taste in my mouth, so conflicted nice guy tho.

anyways imagine our society 50,000 years from now if it ended today.  about the only thing that would still be standing is the statue of liberty.  can you imagine what some fk's would think of that after they dug that thing up or found it at the bottom of the ocean.  like omg a giant fucking person holding a dildo what does it mean


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22213316 - 09/09/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather, they have no aspirations to make artifacts.  so whats interesting is, what suddenly makes people want to build shit, instead of just continue to hunt.  most likely easier lives, having the time and wealth.  so not only are we finding these old buildings, but that also means a lot of shit happened long long before they got built as well.  like those people in the congo could go another 50,000 years and still not build anything due to the constant struggles




When you said what happened that made them build, it was agriculture, suddenly there was planting and harvest of crops  instead of hunting and gathering randomly, which created surplus food supply, and you very well can't carry next year's food supply around on your back or haul it from place to place, so the people settled, and with food not being a concern, and the population becoming sedentary, you get building massive temples, what else really did they have to do? And with sedimentary populations and temples comes government and working people's in trades involving things other than finding the next meal, with agriculture comes "civilization".

Nomadic people's would be after your grain supply or stored food, specially during winter months, so as a means to protect it you get armies, eventually walls go around the city, now you have walled cities with government in place and standing armies, and with that comes emperialistic conquest and attempted world domination...maybe one day we will have a civilization worthy of the name....  we are half divine incarnation and half marauding ape, and all too often when a marauding ape gets the power of standing armies, the desire for conquest, and eventually atomic weapons, it's hard to see how the divine incarnation in him will triumph, desire for material objects feeds the ape not the divine, and in modern culture you must be like junkies running dry when it comes to your lust for material goods, the Egyptians had slaves build the pyramids, modern culture turns you into slaves by exploiting your desire for material objects, which is why I put civilization in quotation above, we are going to work ourselves to death, destroy the land with toxic waste, and possibly destroy all life on earth with nuclear war-fare....

All because of agriculture.

Not to say there are not many positive results of civilization, we will eventually run out of resources or our star will supper-nova, so if we don't develop inter-stellar travel and find a new home (much like a virus moving from cell to cell, or a parasite  consuming and destroying everything and then moving to the next planet, I'm not saying anything negative about humanity this time though, I'm just commenting on what humans colonizing other planets resembles) so technological development is a MUST or extinction is certain...

The ultimate goal of humanity should be to develop interstellar travel before we run out of resources or the star dies...

I'm getting way to off topic..

The short answer is, it was agriculture that made them decide to build.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22213377 - 09/09/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
lots of parts of the congo still are like that and surely other parts of Africa, they don't even have running water.  that's the only reason I even know about it cuss some dude building water wells over there cuss he's like .0001% pigmeat or something and identifies them as family, and writes books and makes movies and yah he seems to be cashing in quiet well but I guess he's gotta make a living at the same time but it still leaves a funny taste in my mouth, so conflicted nice guy tho.






Part of this is because the world bank will offer developing countries loans, but they have huge interest, most countries pay of the initial loan but are forever debted by the interest, and with no money to give the international monetary fund or world bank they must give them their resources, so these countries have given all their money to the world bank, and the world bank says "you still owe us pay the fuck up" so they give away all their natural resources...you always hear people say the first world consumes the majority percentage of resources, those are not our resources, those countries were scammed by "financial hit men" and bled dry (there's a documentary called "let's make money" that goes in depth on the topic)

These people are not just lazy, or they just couldn't get it together, the world bank  the IMF scammed them into be permanently unable to develop, and if other nations are not developing we can stay on top. Every luxury you enjoy in the first world deprives those in the third world.

-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/09/15 05:26 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22213397 - 09/09/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

actually your leaving out 1 potential outcome, we get help from someone/something that helps us leave earth.  but they get here and see what we've done to this planet and realize we don't deserve saving


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22213448 - 09/09/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
actually your leaving out 1 potential outcome, we get help from someone/something that helps us leave earth.  but they get here and see what we've done to this planet and realize we don't deserve saving





I don't think there is going to be an easy way out, we all pray that we can steam ahead full speed destroying nature and depleating our resources and that at the last minute aliens from zeta reticuli will swoop down in shining golden discs and save us...

Or the mainstream religious folks think that the rapture will occur, and God will come down and save us...

Like mckenna said (he said something to this effect any way) we can keep doing what we are doing but it won't bring the guy from Galilee, and it won't bring friendly aliens from arcturus...so we can gas tel Aviv and bomb Baghdad, and destroy the environment and poison the seas, and all its going to do is leave a bigger mess for us to clean up..


-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22213469 - 09/09/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive.  not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons

edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBeanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22213571 - 09/09/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Azul maya

I want to create unique colours too


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Beanhead]
    #22213601 - 09/09/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Most people really underestimate stone work. With nothing but stone and stone tools you can carve anything that can be carved. Think "Statue of David" levels of carving ability. The only significant differences are that stone tools wear out faster and don't cut as quickly as metal ones. The detail that can be achieved however depends far more on the artist than on the materials available for their tools.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22215995 - 09/10/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive.  not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons

edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction



Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive.  not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons

edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction




Exactly! If we are going to destroy our planet it should at least be as a means of achieving the space-travel to find new ones...

We are looting the future for resources...

It's a race, we must develop inter-stellar travel before one of 3 things happens ·Before the sun super-novas ·Before our planet is devoid of resources ·Or before other destruction, such as a nuclear war killing all life on earth, or a plague driving us to extinction, or a meteorite strike or other natural disaster...

This world may be like a sand mandala, a beautiful intricate creation that looks like it should be preserved, but in the end is destined to be destroyed, it came about, existed, and ended, seemingly for no reason at all...

Since know one knows why we are here or what we are supposed to be doing here it's hard to pick the right coarse of action...

I just make sure that all my actions are peaceful, motivated by love and compassion, and are always striving to remain on the positive end of the spectrum, I only know enough to know that if something is positive in existence, it's probably the correct path...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #22216021 - 09/10/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Most people really underestimate stone work. With nothing but stone and stone tools you can carve anything that can be carved. Think "Statue of David" levels of carving ability. The only significant differences are that stone tools wear out faster and don't cut as quickly as metal ones. The detail that can be achieved however depends far more on the artist than on the materials available for their tools.




I don't know enough about masonry or stone carving to say one way or the other...but:

Building something like that takes engineering skill, these people should have had no prior accumulated knowledge in that area.

(Gobekli tepe) during the first phase, pre-pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), circles of massive T-shaped stone pillars were erected. More than 200 pillars in about 20 circles are currently known through geophysical surveys. Each pillar has a height of up to 6 m (20 ft) and a weight of up to 20 tons. They are fitted into sockets that were hewn out of the bedrock-Wikipedia

How we're the lifting these 20 ton stones?

People say they can be dragged with ropes and rollers, but every experiment I have seen where modern people tried to recreate these techniques they either failed, or succeeded with so much difficulty that it seems very illogical that that was how these people were moving these things.

I think human civilization is FAR older than we think, ans these people were far more advanced than we can imagine...

Like I said, if the great pyramid at giza had not survived to modern times, we would probably claim that they would have not been capable of building it...

There's more that we don't know about human history than we do.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216409 - 09/10/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

im pretty sure its as simple as this



as for the rollers, I bet tree's would make great rollers

as for "lifting" the blocks up to set into slots, they don't have to lift them up, they just have to build the ground up around the slot, then slide the rock over a ledge so it drops DOWN into the slot

time consuming, but I still dont' see how it would be hard.  These people had all day to think about this shit, they were far more in touch with physics than we are as they dealt with it everyday whereas we deal with TV's n shit.  so if my dumbass can think this shit up, surely they could


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (09/10/15 11:19 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216483 - 09/10/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Like I said, if the great pyramid at giza had not survived to modern times, we would probably claim that they would have not been capable of building it...

Absolutely. And today the usual trolls and shills would be repeating over and over that it could not be done, impossible, etc. Since it obviously was done and was not a hoax, they shift gears and try to tell us its easy.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22216503 - 09/10/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

they didn't even cut the stones straight so yeah it was easy, the pyrimids are much more impressive.  your just confusing me for one of those people that thinks they were idiots, humans have been around for over 3 million years, this shit is like 20,000 years old, they were  prolly making shit 2 million years ago but its all crumbled to dust


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22217126 - 09/10/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
im pretty sure its as simple as this



as for the rollers, I bet tree's would make great rollers

as for "lifting" the blocks up to set into slots, they don't have to lift them up, they just have to build the ground up around the slot, then slide the rock over a ledge so it drops DOWN into the slot

time consuming, but I still dont' see how it would be hard.  These people had all day to think about this shit, they were far more in touch with physics than we are as they dealt with it everyday whereas we deal with TV's n shit.  so if my dumbass can think this shit up, surely they could





When your dealing with 20 ton stones that technique becomes far less effective...

Here's some examples:

·Roger Hopkins and Mark Lehner teamed up with a NOVA crew to conduct an obelisk erecting experiment; they successfully erected a 25-ton obelisk in 1999. They also managed to tow it a short distance.-wikipedia (Erecting the stone was not hard, but they had issues towing it)

·In 1997, Julian Richards teamed up with Mark Witby and Roger Hopkins to conduct several experiments to replicate the construction at Stonehenge for NOVA's Secrets of Lost Empires mini-series. They initially failed to tow a 40-ton monolith with 130 men but after adding additional men towing as well as some men using levers to prod the megalith forward, they succeeded in inching it forward a small distance-wikipedia

·In a 2001 exercise in experimental archaeology, an attempt was made to transport a large stone along a land and sea route from Wales to Stonehenge. Volunteers pulled it for some miles (with great difficulty) on a wooden sledge over land, using modern roads and low-friction netting to assist sliding, but once transferred to a replica prehistoric boat, the stone sank in Milford Haven, before it even reached the rough seas of the Bristol Channel.-Wikipedia

And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.

It's not impossible, I'm sure they could have done it with the methods described, and maybe they did.

…but it still blows my mind.

Though I still feel civilization is MUCH older and was much more advanced than the accepted history believes it to be.

It seems bizzare to go from caveman or nomadic Hunter/gathers to gobekli tepe builders with almost nothing in between.

The Egyptian pyramids are less mysterious (but still mind blowing) because they had that 7000 years to learn how to do this, they didn't just "pop-up" out of the last glaciation as skilled builders...


-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22217445 - 09/10/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

[And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.




that's all assumptions we really have no idea what any ancient civilization had, all we know is what survived.


the way they date shit is highly in question as well, its entirely possible it was built before the last glaciation.  from what I remember they use the surroundings to date shit, that's an entirely shitty way to date stuff, all that indicates is the last time it was messed with


also the cases you shown on moving heavy objects basically proves they could do it.  all cases showed they could be moved.  the people using the low friction netting, from what little ive read on this, that would spread the fucrum points all over the place making it harder to move it, rollers are far more effective and is the most likely way they did it and none of those people even attempted to do it that way, so im 100% confident it can be done that way.  im sure it was more than one thing used to do it but id bet anything it involved tree's.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22218231 - 09/10/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

[And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.




that's all assumptions we really have no idea what any ancient civilization had, all we know is what survived.


the way they date shit is highly in question as well, its entirely possible it was built before the last glaciation.  from what I remember they use the surroundings to date shit, that's an entirely shitty way to date stuff, all that indicates is the last time it was messed with


also the cases you shown on moving heavy objects basically proves they could do it.  all cases showed they could be moved.  the people using the low friction netting, from what little ive read on this, that would spread the fucrum points all over the place making it harder to move it, rollers are far more effective and is the most likely way they did it and none of those people even attempted to do it that way, so im 100% confident it can be done that way.  im sure it was more than one thing used to do it but id bet anything it involved tree's.




I don't think these are assumptions, I mean ultimately they are, but they are the facts at hand according to academia and science as of now, we supposedly went from cave dwellers and nomads to gobekli tepe builders, straight out of the last glaciation.

(Re:Megalith moving) They could have done it that way, though in every example I listed they failed )don't worry there's other examples where people haven't, I just didn't list them).  I think ancient man would had devised some better method, when your dealing with 10-70 ton stones that method becomes very ineffective, it often fails, and if you slip a 20 ton rock off the rollers, how in God's name would you get it back on them? Specially without the pully or the wheel, meaning one mistake (mistakes are frequent with this method) and you have a 20 ton stone stuck in a random place and it never gets to be part of the temple, had they done it this way you would expect to see at least some failed attempts laying about...

Your right, I think these civilizations are much older than we know, when the glaciers melted and receded, there were floods, who knows how many pre-glaciation cities are sitting under water right now (assuming they exist)...who knows how many just have not been found yet, or just have not been recognized, they find suspected ruins all the time...

I think civilizations being far older than we believe explains all these archeological anomolys, and it does it without aliens or time-travelers...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218265 - 09/10/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

studing what you find and assuming because you didn't find something that scientifically makes it a fact they didn't have something is what I would call morons.

science, when it comes to history, is the worst kind of science we have


half the reason they assume most of that bullshit is because they have it stuck in these timelines for when they assume man pushed a wheel, when man lite a fire, ect ect.  they act like those dates are set in stone and refuse to listen to anything else.  Its like the age of the sphinx, regardless of if its true or not, they refuse to believe any different that the age may be different than they thought, even after they started finding other things in the ocean dating before it, which already puts it into question.

point is they are hard headed as fuck, that isn't science its ego's and its really all shit based on assumptions


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218384 - 09/10/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I saw a show on tv years ago attempting to convince people it was easy to build the pyramids and that it could easily have been done in 20 or 30 years. It was totally fake. They started with a block of stone which you could see that all the faces showing were cut clean and flat, it was a regular cube. Then, they cut it free from the last bit of stone it was connected to, I could not see if that part was fake, probably was too, took them a few minutes. After they got it free it was perfect on all sides.

Then, they put in on log rollers, they had a flat road already built to the site they were going to put it. They dragged it on the rollers and pushed it in place. They timed it and crowed that it proved their theory. Proved it to the sheep maybe but not to anyone with a brain in their head.

They had expert stone masons cut the block before the demonstration started, probably using modern tools. They were a short distance from the site and the real pyramids used up their nearby stone fast and had to bring it in from farther and farther away. The ancients had no hard level roads unless they painstakingly built them too. No mention of that in the program. Also no mention of the fact it becomes many times harder to do as you go up the levels, second level was 10 times as hard, third, much more and so on. Also  the fact that many stones used in the pyramids were much larger than the one in the demo which was maybe 5' on a side, a baby stone compared to many others.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22218627 - 09/10/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so they proved it could be done and your saying it proves that it can't be?  because your assuming ancient civilizations would be to stupid to clear a path first, but smart enough to build the thing?  we know someone built it and it wasn't us, so im confussed at what your suggesting?  That they had magical powers and floated it there?  also if they cut 1 side flush on tv, why would you assume the other 3 sides couldn't be done?  perhaps they just didn't want to spend 30 minutes cutting stone to make it a bit more enertaining


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (09/10/15 08:34 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22220561 - 09/11/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
studing what you find and assuming because you didn't find something that scientifically makes it a fact they didn't have something is what I would call morons.

science, when it comes to history, is the worst kind of science we have


half the reason they assume most of that bullshit is because they have it stuck in these timelines for when they assume man pushed a wheel, when man lite a fire, ect ect.  they act like those dates are set in stone and refuse to listen to anything else.  Its like the age of the sphinx, regardless of if its true or not, they refuse to believe any different that the age may be different than they thought, even after they started finding other things in the ocean dating before it, which already puts it into question.

point is they are hard headed as fuck, that isn't science its ego's and its really all shit based on assumptions




It's not the science that is flawed, it's the scientists defending their careers and the theories that brought them to their expert status in the field...

Here's a scientific flaw, mckenna said something similar which I'll try to remember so bare with me,he said
"If we measure the electric voltage running through a wire, and you get like 3.3volts one time, then 4 volts, then 3.8 volts, and then 12000 volts, the scientist will discard the anomalous reading, saying "now that can't be right" and he will move on...
Now, if you look at the sky 1000 times, and on one of those occasions you see an object the size of a city block floating by, you want to look into that time that happened, that's where the interest should be, in these anomolous events(-I'll quote the idea to mckenna, but since I could not find it transcribed I had to write this from memory, but it should be fairly close to what mckenna said)

...and science has always had the preference of ignoring the anomaly in preference of the standard, which is its fatal flaw.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220571 - 09/11/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, most scientists will (usually correctly) attribute this to an error in the setup of the experiment or equipment failure. Some will look into it further and find out the exact cause of the error and learn something from it. None of them are likely to find anything truly groundbreaking, but lessons will usually be learned. I don't think this is a systematic flaw in science.

And I'm stepping over the incorrect lingo of measuring the current through a wire in volts, which betrays a lack of insight into physics. But that's inconsequential in this case.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22220578 - 09/11/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I saw a show on tv years ago attempting to convince people it was easy to build the pyramids and that it could easily have been done in 20 or 30 years. It was totally fake. They started with a block of stone which you could see that all the faces showing were cut clean and flat, it was a regular cube. Then, they cut it free from the last bit of stone it was connected to, I could not see if that part was fake, probably was too, took them a few minutes. After they got it free it was perfect on all sides.

Then, they put in on log rollers, they had a flat road already built to the site they were going to put it. They dragged it on the rollers and pushed it in place. They timed it and crowed that it proved their theory. Proved it to the sheep maybe but not to anyone with a brain in their head.

They had expert stone masons cut the block before the demonstration started, probably using modern tools. They were a short distance from the site and the real pyramids used up their nearby stone fast and had to bring it in from farther and farther away. The ancients had no hard level roads unless they painstakingly built them too. No mention of that in the program. Also no mention of the fact it becomes many times harder to do as you go up the levels, second level was 10 times as hard, third, much more and so on. Also  the fact that many stones used in the pyramids were much larger than the one in the demo which was maybe 5' on a side, a baby stone compared to many others.





Ha! I never thought of that! Log rollers on deserts sand? Sounds pretty difficult to me, they would have found a better way...

If a 20 ton block slips off the log rollers, how in God's name do you get it back on?
Every failure would be a monument stone represented by all the random blocks in random places that had slipped off the rollers...

I think they had to have found a much better way to do it, it just may not be obvious for whatever reason, if it was, there would be no mystery.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220583 - 09/11/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you think it's plausible that they'd manage to haul 20 ton blocks from a quarry to the building site, but not be able to recover a block if it rolls off of its transportation mechanism? That just doesn't make sense :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220593 - 09/11/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Actually, most scientists will (usually correctly) attribute this to an error in the setup of the experiment or equipment failure. Some will look into it further and find out the exact cause of the error and learn something from it. None of them are likely to find anything truly groundbreaking, but lessons will usually be learned. I don't think this is a systematic flaw in science.

And I'm stepping over the incorrect lingo of measuring the current through a wire in volts, which betrays a lack of insight into physics. But that's inconsequential in this case.




I am fairly knowledgeable in physics, The SI unit for measuring an electric current is the ampere, it sounds strange and it takes away from the point, for this was not about the electricity in the wire, it was relating to discarding the anomaly.

You always have the best responses, very few people can trip me up like that, I truly enjoy reading your replies.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220603 - 09/11/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I aplogize for having misjudged your knowledge! And you're right, as I said it's inconsequential anyway. Although I do sometimes get a bit annoyed at McKenna's loose interpretation of established science and the conclusions he draws from it. Although his writings are inspiring, they do sometimes lack thoroughness on crucial points and that casts serious doubt on the validity of his claims. Nevertheless, it's good and commendable to remain critical of research. It's far from perfect, nor are the people who perform it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220604 - 09/11/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Why do you think it's plausible that they'd manage to haul 20 ton blocks from a quarry to the building site, but not be able to recover a block if it rolls off of its transportation mechanism? That just doesn't make sense :wink:




I don't know enough about megalithic stone moving to know if they had a solution for this, but if a 20 ton stone slips off the rollers, it's near flat on the ground, how do you lift it? Even if you had notches cut into for sticks to pry it up, or ropes to connect to the block, there was no pulley, the people at gobekli tepe supposedly did not even ha e the wheel, so, a 20 block has slipped of the rollers, what do you do?

Again I don't know very much about moving giant rocks, but this seems like it would be an issue...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220618 - 09/11/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dig a trench or some cavities underneath it for example? This gives the opportunity to work on the block from the underside, e.g. put  several beams underneath that can be used to lift the block up, insert some rollers underneath it, do the same on the other side and roll the block forward onto a new set of rollers. Doesn't sound too complicated for a group of people who are used to hauling around 20 ton blocks anyway!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220620 - 09/11/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I aplogize for having misjudged your knowledge! And you're right, as I said it's inconsequential anyway. Although I do sometimes get a bit annoyed at McKenna's loose interpretation of established science and the conclusions he draws from it. Although his writings are inspiring, they do sometimes lack thoroughness on crucial points and that casts serious doubt on the validity of his claims. Nevertheless, it's good and commendable to remain critical of research. It's far from perfect, nor are the people who perform it.




It's all good, I enjoy an intellectual challenge, if someone knowledgeable never challenges what your saying, how do you know it stands up to scrutiny?

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleabductee
Time
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/15
Posts: 2,224
Loc: Canada
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220625 - 09/11/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think aliens would have a form of science.

Certain vibration frequency or frequencies are supposed to be able to lift objects or make them lighter.
  Its said to be witnessed a bunch of monks chanting a certain tone or frequency that enabled them to lift a stone. Maybe once it's lifted or under that frequency's wave its as light as a feather?
  there was someone within the last 100 years who may have created a device that was able to lift heavy objects. I believe it was shaped like an ice cream cone, maybe he had two one in each hand.. I'm sure if you googled or youtubbed ice cream cone stone lifter or something to that effect you will get some search results.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220630 - 09/11/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Dig a trench or some cavities underneath it for example? This gives the opportunity to work on the block from the underside, e.g. put  several beams underneath that can be used to lift the block up, insert some rollers underneath it, do the same on the other side and roll the block forward onto a new set of rollers. Doesn't sound too complicated for a group of people who are used to hauling around 20 ton blocks anyway!




That's a brilliant solution, I can't believe I missed that option, yeah you are 100% correct, that would perfectly solve the problem.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220633 - 09/11/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

...unless the soil is un-digable, but how often would that happen?

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineShroomslip
Architekt
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 23,651
Last seen: 2 hours, 49 minutes
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220634 - 09/11/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not really that surprising. I mean I don't know exactly how they got them on in the first place, but it'd be reasonable to assume if they could even get them on the rollers to begin with, they could get them back on if they had to.

As I said on the first page, people often underestimate our ancestors. We have technology and stuff to make our lives easier. We hold ourselves up like we're superior simply because we have computers and robotics and what not. But that's just the evolution of technology. It wasn't really created to solve a problem, it was created because it could be created. When we do come across something we seemingly can't do, we invent technology to do it for us. We can't mass produce stuff fast enough, we make automated machines to do it. They had to look around with limited options and figure out how to do something.

If anything I think they were more advanced than we are. Randomly pick one person from like 5 B.C. and throw them into the middle of no where, watch how long they survive. Then do it to one of us. You're most likely going to see the ancestor live and us die. Another thing is to just look at some of the shit they created with the very limited technology they had. Even today we'd struggle to build the pyramids.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd have little problem getting a block back onto rollers. They also had a lot more time to waste on figuring out solutions to these problems. They didn't really need a 9 to 5 job just to keep a home and keep from starving.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleabductee
Time
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/15
Posts: 2,224
Loc: Canada
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: abductee]
    #22220661 - 09/11/15 08:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've recently seen some pictures of stone spheres on mars, there was also a mass not far away that could be seen as two figures clung together and mummyfied by sheer heat. I think they were comparing it to some sphere's found here on earth and Theorized as possibly being part of some extinctional event. ( yes I believe i'm creating words) lol


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: abductee]
    #22220674 - 09/11/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

abductee said:
I think aliens would have a form of science.

Certain vibration frequency or frequencies are supposed to be able to lift objects or make them lighter.
  Its said to be witnessed a bunch of monks chanting a certain tone or frequency that enabled them to lift a stone. Maybe once it's lifted or under that frequency's wave its as light as a feather?
  there was someone within the last 100 years who may have created a device that was able to lift heavy objects. I believe it was shaped like an ice cream cone, maybe he had two one in each hand.. I'm sure if you googled or youtubbed ice cream cone stone lifter or something to that effect you will get some search results.




Do you know about coral castle in Florida? This little eastern European man built a megalithic stone garden, and would often say exactly what you are saying...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1vyB-O5i6E
In the clip above the description says "a frog is levitated using a 10 tesla magnetic coil using diamagnetism" (the frog is full of water, so it can float, like at coral castle he used a very porous stone, I'm sure he submerged the stones in water then subjected them to similar fields.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle

www.youtube.com/watch?v=veM5nZNBoW8
Aero-Acoustic Levitation of Ping-Pong Ball, this is another method that may be modified in some way to move objects, but as of now a ping-pong ball (3g?) is the best we can do...

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220694 - 09/11/15 08:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The first ping-pong link I posted was terrible, sorry, this one is much better.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt-WoKdP2wQ

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleabductee
Time
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/15
Posts: 2,224
Loc: Canada
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220702 - 09/11/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'll check out coral castle, i'm not sure if I heard of that one, i'm going to check out your link. I've seen the ping pong ball experiment, still really cool. I imagine there's advancements to this that we haven't seen yet.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220710 - 09/11/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...unless the soil is un-digable, but how often would that happen?

-E. Borodin



Even still; if they managed to quarry 20 ton rocks, then I imagine they would have been able to carve out a niche underneath a slipped rock to put them into a position to move it again. Really, it's amazing that people managed to move rocks this big back then, but since it happened just about all over the world, it's obviously something that groups of people are quite capable of doing. It would have been awesome to watch them do it from an archaeological viewpoint. Very interesting indeed!

Quote:

I'm sure he submerged the stones in water then subjected them to similar fields



Nah, I don't think so really. Sounds like an overly complex solution and he'd need to construct like a 2000000T magnet around a piece of rock, which just doesn't make sense.
Also, the video of the aucoustic levitation as you probably know relies on a completely different mechanism and one that would be equally problematic in scaling it up. It sounds much more logical that he'd move the rocks in a similar way as the Egyptians are theorized to have done it: on some kind of bearing, and lifting them with some kind of hoisting apparatus. These things sound pretty doable for a very clever man; the other methods are really beyond the abilities of one dude in the first half of the 20th century.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleabductee
Time
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/15
Posts: 2,224
Loc: Canada
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220741 - 09/11/15 08:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i'm watching a video on coral castle mystery solved. Its pretty basic, he used a tripod type hoist. there's video of him using it and the pully's are still in the shed at coral castle. His little electric device was just a simple electromagnetic powered thing. he used it to power two light bulbs, but when he stopped cranking it the light went out.lol i'm baked, but here's the video


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: abductee]
    #22221568 - 09/11/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Moving a large stone, some were over 50 tons, across sand using tree trunks as rollers is a monumental task. Its not easy as people who have no concept of doing stuff like that might think. Its much harder than it sounds because the rollers sink into the sand and will not turn. They have to be on a flat hard surface to move and the surface has to be capable of supporting the giant load. The rollers all have to be the same diameter or you run into problems and they will get ground up during the process and need to be replaced often.

Then there is the problem of putting them on higher levels which makes it much more difficult.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemakaveli8x8
Stranger
Male User Gallery
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22221612 - 09/11/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

there most likely wasn't even sand there when it was built..........also have you heard of wood planks?  anything you can think of can be worked around, they had time, lots of time, to think about shit.  it was time consuming, hard work, but that's exactly what those people had, they had LOTS of time, and lots of people to work, which most likely included slaves.

instead of the 130 trying to simulate what they did, it could have been in reality 500 or 1000 people who were actually moving them.  doing the actual work requires strength and numbers and time, them being able to do it, easy


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22222369 - 09/11/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
...unless the soil is un-digable, but how often would that happen?

-E. Borodin



Even still; if they managed to quarry 20 ton rocks, then I imagine they would have been able to carve out a niche underneath a slipped rock to put them into a position to move it again. Really, it's amazing that people managed to move rocks this big back then, but since it happened just about all over the world, it's obviously something that groups of people are quite capable of doing. It would have been awesome to watch them do it from an archaeological viewpoint. Very interesting indeed!

Quote:

I'm sure he submerged the stones in water then subjected them to similar fields



Nah, I don't think so really. Sounds like an overly complex solution and he'd need to construct like a 2000000T magnet around a piece of rock, which just doesn't make sense.
Also, the video of the aucoustic levitation as you probably know relies on a completely different mechanism and one that would be equally problematic in scaling it up. It sounds much more logical that he'd move the rocks in a similar way as the Egyptians are theorized to have done it: on some kind of bearing, and lifting them with some kind of hoisting apparatus. These things sound pretty doable for a very clever man; the other methods are really beyond the abilities of one dude in the first half of the 20th century.




Cutting a niche into a smaller rock may be fine, a rock in excess of tons would snap the prying polls, all of these techniques are time tested and work, I'm not arguing that, but when you are reaching 20+ ton stones the effectiveness of these techniques is massively reduced....the "stone of the pregnant woman" at baalbek (Lebanon) weight is estimated at around 1650tons, even with modern equipment we could not move that....


And generally I would agree, there's nothing to the coral castle thing, the coral castle guy was known for making outrageous claims about the secrets of the Egyptians and has tons of research into magnetism and the earths the magnetic field, and since I recalled the diamagnetic levitation of the frog, I thought, wouldn't it be crazy if he had to use coral stone because it had to stay wet when these diamagnetic fields were being applied...but yeah, in reality he probably did it with pulleys of some type, though he probably would have needed more than his single tripod pulley, and we still don't know how he carved these things, well nobody saw him do it, keep in mind that little 120 lb 5'4" man built and carved  that entire complex by himself, so even if he didn't have Any special secrets, that's still pretty damn impressive.

(the pyramids went up FAST, it only took 20-30 years to build the great pyramid, thats faster than you think could have been possible using the methods described, so, is it not possible or even probable that they had devised a technique for moving megaliths that we have yet to discover? There has to be an easier way to cut, carve, and transport megalithic stones with ease accuracy and precision...Or maybe not, but I think even with modern tools the great pyramid would have been a monumental task...

From Asia, to Egypt and other parts of Africa to south America and Mexico we see these intricate megalithic structures, all built by people with little more than trees and ropes...in the case of gobekli tepe we came out of the last glaciation as skilled builders moving 20+ ton megaliths...

I don't know, but to me it seems like we may be missing a piece of the picture, and I'm still confident that there's far more that we don't know, and may never know, about our history.

-E. Borodin


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22222409 - 09/11/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Different theories propose the use of levers, wood sleds or long ramps to move the stones into place. Each of these theories has its problems. For instance, for a ramp to help bring a block to the top of the pyramid at a plausible angle, it would have to be a mile long. -ask.com


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Topicals   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Incredible Ancient Artifacts from Ecuador
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Cannashroom 10,261 62 02/21/11 10:15 AM
by Ozymandihash
* Ancient finds that boggle our minds
( 1 2 all )
Apostle 3,758 22 12/16/10 03:42 PM
by Salomon
* Ancient Aliens
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Bitter Cactus 5,624 63 02/13/14 04:46 PM
by Pyramid Scheme
* So now that the show Ancient Aliens is over...
( 1 2 3 4 all )
morrowasted 8,812 61 06/16/10 03:55 PM
by Sophistic Radiance
* The Egyptian Ouroboros and the Enigma of Our Fractal Reality crackawebsta 2,900 7 11/03/10 12:49 PM
by crackawebsta
* therefore fuck ancient aliens
( 1 2 3 4 all )
robbyberto 6,507 71 09/01/11 01:33 PM
by Kada
* The Coso Artifact proof of intelligent life before us?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
LoveOverAll 8,136 97 02/08/10 10:49 AM
by koppie
* Ancient megalithic structures- only three possibilities?
( 1 2 3 all )
Moonshoe 3,390 59 11/20/13 06:55 PM
by koods

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
6,362 topic views. 4 members, 60 guests and 59 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.054 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 14 queries.