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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216409 - 09/10/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

im pretty sure its as simple as this



as for the rollers, I bet tree's would make great rollers

as for "lifting" the blocks up to set into slots, they don't have to lift them up, they just have to build the ground up around the slot, then slide the rock over a ledge so it drops DOWN into the slot

time consuming, but I still dont' see how it would be hard.  These people had all day to think about this shit, they were far more in touch with physics than we are as they dealt with it everyday whereas we deal with TV's n shit.  so if my dumbass can think this shit up, surely they could


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Edited by makaveli8x8 (09/10/15 11:19 AM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22216483 - 09/10/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

>Like I said, if the great pyramid at giza had not survived to modern times, we would probably claim that they would have not been capable of building it...

Absolutely. And today the usual trolls and shills would be repeating over and over that it could not be done, impossible, etc. Since it obviously was done and was not a hoax, they shift gears and try to tell us its easy.


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22216503 - 09/10/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

they didn't even cut the stones straight so yeah it was easy, the pyrimids are much more impressive.  your just confusing me for one of those people that thinks they were idiots, humans have been around for over 3 million years, this shit is like 20,000 years old, they were  prolly making shit 2 million years ago but its all crumbled to dust


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We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22217126 - 09/10/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
im pretty sure its as simple as this



as for the rollers, I bet tree's would make great rollers

as for "lifting" the blocks up to set into slots, they don't have to lift them up, they just have to build the ground up around the slot, then slide the rock over a ledge so it drops DOWN into the slot

time consuming, but I still dont' see how it would be hard.  These people had all day to think about this shit, they were far more in touch with physics than we are as they dealt with it everyday whereas we deal with TV's n shit.  so if my dumbass can think this shit up, surely they could





When your dealing with 20 ton stones that technique becomes far less effective...

Here's some examples:

·Roger Hopkins and Mark Lehner teamed up with a NOVA crew to conduct an obelisk erecting experiment; they successfully erected a 25-ton obelisk in 1999. They also managed to tow it a short distance.-wikipedia (Erecting the stone was not hard, but they had issues towing it)

·In 1997, Julian Richards teamed up with Mark Witby and Roger Hopkins to conduct several experiments to replicate the construction at Stonehenge for NOVA's Secrets of Lost Empires mini-series. They initially failed to tow a 40-ton monolith with 130 men but after adding additional men towing as well as some men using levers to prod the megalith forward, they succeeded in inching it forward a small distance-wikipedia

·In a 2001 exercise in experimental archaeology, an attempt was made to transport a large stone along a land and sea route from Wales to Stonehenge. Volunteers pulled it for some miles (with great difficulty) on a wooden sledge over land, using modern roads and low-friction netting to assist sliding, but once transferred to a replica prehistoric boat, the stone sank in Milford Haven, before it even reached the rough seas of the Bristol Channel.-Wikipedia

And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.

It's not impossible, I'm sure they could have done it with the methods described, and maybe they did.

…but it still blows my mind.

Though I still feel civilization is MUCH older and was much more advanced than the accepted history believes it to be.

It seems bizzare to go from caveman or nomadic Hunter/gathers to gobekli tepe builders with almost nothing in between.

The Egyptian pyramids are less mysterious (but still mind blowing) because they had that 7000 years to learn how to do this, they didn't just "pop-up" out of the last glaciation as skilled builders...


-E. Borodin


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22217445 - 09/10/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

[And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.




that's all assumptions we really have no idea what any ancient civilization had, all we know is what survived.


the way they date shit is highly in question as well, its entirely possible it was built before the last glaciation.  from what I remember they use the surroundings to date shit, that's an entirely shitty way to date stuff, all that indicates is the last time it was messed with


also the cases you shown on moving heavy objects basically proves they could do it.  all cases showed they could be moved.  the people using the low friction netting, from what little ive read on this, that would spread the fucrum points all over the place making it harder to move it, rollers are far more effective and is the most likely way they did it and none of those people even attempted to do it that way, so im 100% confident it can be done that way.  im sure it was more than one thing used to do it but id bet anything it involved tree's.


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22218231 - 09/10/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:

[And you must keep in mind Gobekli tepe is a pre-pottery Neolithic (PPNA/ppnb), epipaleolithic era site, so they had no wheel, no pottery, only simple stones and sticks...they were 7000 years BEHIND the Egyptians technologically and in terms of engineering and  megalith moving.

this means we went from being cave-men and nomadic Hunter/gathers to building gobekli tepe...they should have had no accumulated knowledge on engineering, stone carving or megalith moving.




that's all assumptions we really have no idea what any ancient civilization had, all we know is what survived.


the way they date shit is highly in question as well, its entirely possible it was built before the last glaciation.  from what I remember they use the surroundings to date shit, that's an entirely shitty way to date stuff, all that indicates is the last time it was messed with


also the cases you shown on moving heavy objects basically proves they could do it.  all cases showed they could be moved.  the people using the low friction netting, from what little ive read on this, that would spread the fucrum points all over the place making it harder to move it, rollers are far more effective and is the most likely way they did it and none of those people even attempted to do it that way, so im 100% confident it can be done that way.  im sure it was more than one thing used to do it but id bet anything it involved tree's.




I don't think these are assumptions, I mean ultimately they are, but they are the facts at hand according to academia and science as of now, we supposedly went from cave dwellers and nomads to gobekli tepe builders, straight out of the last glaciation.

(Re:Megalith moving) They could have done it that way, though in every example I listed they failed )don't worry there's other examples where people haven't, I just didn't list them).  I think ancient man would had devised some better method, when your dealing with 10-70 ton stones that method becomes very ineffective, it often fails, and if you slip a 20 ton rock off the rollers, how in God's name would you get it back on them? Specially without the pully or the wheel, meaning one mistake (mistakes are frequent with this method) and you have a 20 ton stone stuck in a random place and it never gets to be part of the temple, had they done it this way you would expect to see at least some failed attempts laying about...

Your right, I think these civilizations are much older than we know, when the glaciers melted and receded, there were floods, who knows how many pre-glaciation cities are sitting under water right now (assuming they exist)...who knows how many just have not been found yet, or just have not been recognized, they find suspected ruins all the time...

I think civilizations being far older than we believe explains all these archeological anomolys, and it does it without aliens or time-travelers...

-E. Borodin


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Offlinemakaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218265 - 09/10/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

studing what you find and assuming because you didn't find something that scientifically makes it a fact they didn't have something is what I would call morons.

science, when it comes to history, is the worst kind of science we have


half the reason they assume most of that bullshit is because they have it stuck in these timelines for when they assume man pushed a wheel, when man lite a fire, ect ect.  they act like those dates are set in stone and refuse to listen to anything else.  Its like the age of the sphinx, regardless of if its true or not, they refuse to believe any different that the age may be different than they thought, even after they started finding other things in the ocean dating before it, which already puts it into question.

point is they are hard headed as fuck, that isn't science its ego's and its really all shit based on assumptions


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22218384 - 09/10/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I saw a show on tv years ago attempting to convince people it was easy to build the pyramids and that it could easily have been done in 20 or 30 years. It was totally fake. They started with a block of stone which you could see that all the faces showing were cut clean and flat, it was a regular cube. Then, they cut it free from the last bit of stone it was connected to, I could not see if that part was fake, probably was too, took them a few minutes. After they got it free it was perfect on all sides.

Then, they put in on log rollers, they had a flat road already built to the site they were going to put it. They dragged it on the rollers and pushed it in place. They timed it and crowed that it proved their theory. Proved it to the sheep maybe but not to anyone with a brain in their head.

They had expert stone masons cut the block before the demonstration started, probably using modern tools. They were a short distance from the site and the real pyramids used up their nearby stone fast and had to bring it in from farther and farther away. The ancients had no hard level roads unless they painstakingly built them too. No mention of that in the program. Also no mention of the fact it becomes many times harder to do as you go up the levels, second level was 10 times as hard, third, much more and so on. Also  the fact that many stones used in the pyramids were much larger than the one in the demo which was maybe 5' on a side, a baby stone compared to many others.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22218627 - 09/10/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

so they proved it could be done and your saying it proves that it can't be?  because your assuming ancient civilizations would be to stupid to clear a path first, but smart enough to build the thing?  we know someone built it and it wasn't us, so im confussed at what your suggesting?  That they had magical powers and floated it there?  also if they cut 1 side flush on tv, why would you assume the other 3 sides couldn't be done?  perhaps they just didn't want to spend 30 minutes cutting stone to make it a bit more enertaining


--------------------
We were sent to hell for eternity :hellfire: Ø:omgawesome:h®
We play on earth to pass the time :foreheadslap:

Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.


Edited by makaveli8x8 (09/10/15 08:34 PM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #22220561 - 09/11/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
studing what you find and assuming because you didn't find something that scientifically makes it a fact they didn't have something is what I would call morons.

science, when it comes to history, is the worst kind of science we have


half the reason they assume most of that bullshit is because they have it stuck in these timelines for when they assume man pushed a wheel, when man lite a fire, ect ect.  they act like those dates are set in stone and refuse to listen to anything else.  Its like the age of the sphinx, regardless of if its true or not, they refuse to believe any different that the age may be different than they thought, even after they started finding other things in the ocean dating before it, which already puts it into question.

point is they are hard headed as fuck, that isn't science its ego's and its really all shit based on assumptions




It's not the science that is flawed, it's the scientists defending their careers and the theories that brought them to their expert status in the field...

Here's a scientific flaw, mckenna said something similar which I'll try to remember so bare with me,he said
"If we measure the electric voltage running through a wire, and you get like 3.3volts one time, then 4 volts, then 3.8 volts, and then 12000 volts, the scientist will discard the anomalous reading, saying "now that can't be right" and he will move on...
Now, if you look at the sky 1000 times, and on one of those occasions you see an object the size of a city block floating by, you want to look into that time that happened, that's where the interest should be, in these anomolous events(-I'll quote the idea to mckenna, but since I could not find it transcribed I had to write this from memory, but it should be fairly close to what mckenna said)

...and science has always had the preference of ignoring the anomaly in preference of the standard, which is its fatal flaw.

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220571 - 09/11/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, most scientists will (usually correctly) attribute this to an error in the setup of the experiment or equipment failure. Some will look into it further and find out the exact cause of the error and learn something from it. None of them are likely to find anything truly groundbreaking, but lessons will usually be learned. I don't think this is a systematic flaw in science.

And I'm stepping over the incorrect lingo of measuring the current through a wire in volts, which betrays a lack of insight into physics. But that's inconsequential in this case.


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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22220578 - 09/11/15 07:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
I saw a show on tv years ago attempting to convince people it was easy to build the pyramids and that it could easily have been done in 20 or 30 years. It was totally fake. They started with a block of stone which you could see that all the faces showing were cut clean and flat, it was a regular cube. Then, they cut it free from the last bit of stone it was connected to, I could not see if that part was fake, probably was too, took them a few minutes. After they got it free it was perfect on all sides.

Then, they put in on log rollers, they had a flat road already built to the site they were going to put it. They dragged it on the rollers and pushed it in place. They timed it and crowed that it proved their theory. Proved it to the sheep maybe but not to anyone with a brain in their head.

They had expert stone masons cut the block before the demonstration started, probably using modern tools. They were a short distance from the site and the real pyramids used up their nearby stone fast and had to bring it in from farther and farther away. The ancients had no hard level roads unless they painstakingly built them too. No mention of that in the program. Also no mention of the fact it becomes many times harder to do as you go up the levels, second level was 10 times as hard, third, much more and so on. Also  the fact that many stones used in the pyramids were much larger than the one in the demo which was maybe 5' on a side, a baby stone compared to many others.





Ha! I never thought of that! Log rollers on deserts sand? Sounds pretty difficult to me, they would have found a better way...

If a 20 ton block slips off the log rollers, how in God's name do you get it back on?
Every failure would be a monument stone represented by all the random blocks in random places that had slipped off the rollers...

I think they had to have found a much better way to do it, it just may not be obvious for whatever reason, if it was, there would be no mystery.

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220583 - 09/11/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you think it's plausible that they'd manage to haul 20 ton blocks from a quarry to the building site, but not be able to recover a block if it rolls off of its transportation mechanism? That just doesn't make sense :wink:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220593 - 09/11/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Actually, most scientists will (usually correctly) attribute this to an error in the setup of the experiment or equipment failure. Some will look into it further and find out the exact cause of the error and learn something from it. None of them are likely to find anything truly groundbreaking, but lessons will usually be learned. I don't think this is a systematic flaw in science.

And I'm stepping over the incorrect lingo of measuring the current through a wire in volts, which betrays a lack of insight into physics. But that's inconsequential in this case.




I am fairly knowledgeable in physics, The SI unit for measuring an electric current is the ampere, it sounds strange and it takes away from the point, for this was not about the electricity in the wire, it was relating to discarding the anomaly.

You always have the best responses, very few people can trip me up like that, I truly enjoy reading your replies.

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220603 - 09/11/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I aplogize for having misjudged your knowledge! And you're right, as I said it's inconsequential anyway. Although I do sometimes get a bit annoyed at McKenna's loose interpretation of established science and the conclusions he draws from it. Although his writings are inspiring, they do sometimes lack thoroughness on crucial points and that casts serious doubt on the validity of his claims. Nevertheless, it's good and commendable to remain critical of research. It's far from perfect, nor are the people who perform it.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220604 - 09/11/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Why do you think it's plausible that they'd manage to haul 20 ton blocks from a quarry to the building site, but not be able to recover a block if it rolls off of its transportation mechanism? That just doesn't make sense :wink:




I don't know enough about megalithic stone moving to know if they had a solution for this, but if a 20 ton stone slips off the rollers, it's near flat on the ground, how do you lift it? Even if you had notches cut into for sticks to pry it up, or ropes to connect to the block, there was no pulley, the people at gobekli tepe supposedly did not even ha e the wheel, so, a 20 block has slipped of the rollers, what do you do?

Again I don't know very much about moving giant rocks, but this seems like it would be an issue...

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22220618 - 09/11/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dig a trench or some cavities underneath it for example? This gives the opportunity to work on the block from the underside, e.g. put  several beams underneath that can be used to lift the block up, insert some rollers underneath it, do the same on the other side and roll the block forward onto a new set of rollers. Doesn't sound too complicated for a group of people who are used to hauling around 20 ton blocks anyway!


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220620 - 09/11/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
I aplogize for having misjudged your knowledge! And you're right, as I said it's inconsequential anyway. Although I do sometimes get a bit annoyed at McKenna's loose interpretation of established science and the conclusions he draws from it. Although his writings are inspiring, they do sometimes lack thoroughness on crucial points and that casts serious doubt on the validity of his claims. Nevertheless, it's good and commendable to remain critical of research. It's far from perfect, nor are the people who perform it.




It's all good, I enjoy an intellectual challenge, if someone knowledgeable never challenges what your saying, how do you know it stands up to scrutiny?

-E. Borodin


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220625 - 09/11/15 08:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think aliens would have a form of science.

Certain vibration frequency or frequencies are supposed to be able to lift objects or make them lighter.
  Its said to be witnessed a bunch of monks chanting a certain tone or frequency that enabled them to lift a stone. Maybe once it's lifted or under that frequency's wave its as light as a feather?
  there was someone within the last 100 years who may have created a device that was able to lift heavy objects. I believe it was shaped like an ice cream cone, maybe he had two one in each hand.. I'm sure if you googled or youtubbed ice cream cone stone lifter or something to that effect you will get some search results.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: koraks]
    #22220630 - 09/11/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Dig a trench or some cavities underneath it for example? This gives the opportunity to work on the block from the underside, e.g. put  several beams underneath that can be used to lift the block up, insert some rollers underneath it, do the same on the other side and roll the block forward onto a new set of rollers. Doesn't sound too complicated for a group of people who are used to hauling around 20 ton blocks anyway!




That's a brilliant solution, I can't believe I missed that option, yeah you are 100% correct, that would perfectly solve the problem.

-E. Borodin


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