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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8] 1
#22206763 - 09/08/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said:
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What the Egyptians did was amazing, but gobekli tepe should have been impossible...
why was it supposed to be impossible? the pictures im looking at look super primitive and they didn't even cut their stone straight
Again, only because this was a Epipaleolithic–Neolithic 'transition' site, *I was not accurate when I said it was a Neolithic site, I'm still learning this as well* ,Quote:
Epipaleolithic" is a term used for the "final Upper Palaeolithic industries occurring at the end of the final glaciation which appear to merge technologically into the Mesolithic".[1] The period is generally dated from 20,000 BP to about 10,500 BP, having emerged from the Palaeolithic era. [2] The term is sometimes used as a synonym of "Mesolithic". When a distinction is made, "Epipaleolithic" stresses the continuity with the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic as we understand it today, whilst "Protoneolithic" stresses a subsequent transition to the Neolithic-wikipedia
there are large stone pillar circles  , These pillars are huge, most of the site has yet to be excavated, but the site is huge as well, and looking into what Epipalaeolithic had in terms of accumulated knowledge as well as technology, it seems near impossible to build a gobekli tepe, now, it WAS built by humans, I study known archeological facts not wild UFO speculation, I think there are cultures that were far more advanced then we give them credit, and it seems like these people, comming out of the last ice age, already had accumulated knowledge, suggesting civilization is FAR older than we believe it to be, I'm interested in science, I'm indifferent to alien theories.
The temple was built 11,500 years ago, 700 hundred years before the pyramid at giza, so I still think what the Egyptians did was amazing, but this is incredible, how did they move and lift those giant stone pillars? What tools were used to carve these things, where did the engineering knowledge come from? And so on... I think it's remarkable..
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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I think the stone work is actually quite intricate, (keep in mind these carvings are 7,000 years older than the pyramid at giza, and have been in the ground for a LONG time)
-E. Borodin
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makaveli8x8
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those pillars don't look that big tho, they are shorter than a ladder.... ive seen far bigger stone in other works. Those pillars could easily be moved with rope, horses, long lines of people, or with a couple magic sliders
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makaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22206936 - 09/08/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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is it just me or does it look like the floor is poured cement, and the base to the big pillar offcenter right looks poured cement as well?
that would explain a lot, for example the carvings are sticking out, which means they either shaved all the stone around the engravings which would have taken FOREVER, or they used a different tactic like poured cement/stone.
If it was poured cement, after 10,000 years or whatever, it might be hard to tell that it was made like that. I mean I don't know how they say its stone and not poured is what im getting at, what methods are they using to determine that and would 10,000 years affect their results
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Shroomslip]
#22206941 - 09/08/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shroomslip said:
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Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
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Shroomslip said: The vonyich is one of the things I want answers to the most. Possible it was just some fantasy novel type shit, but it's intriguing anyways.
The vonyich manuscipt is a legitimate artifact. The vonyich manuscipt has been confirmed to be dated from the 1400s I believe, and has yet to be deciphered....so I'm not sure I understand the fantasy novel comment
Another indecipherable object is The Phaistos Disc
 Yves Duhoux (1977) dates the disc to between 1850 B.C. and 1600 B.C. (MMIII) on the basis of Luigi Pernier's report, which says that the Disc was in a Middle Minoan undisturbed context. Jeppesen (1963) dates it to after 1400 (LMII-III). Doubting the viability of Pernier's report, Louis Godart (1990) resigns himself to admitting that archaeologically, the disc may be dated to anywhere in Middle or Late Minoan times (MMI-LMIII, a period spanning most of the second millennium B.C.). J. Best suggests a date in the first half of the fourteenth century B.C. (LMIIIA) based on his dating of tablet PH 1.-Wikipedia
I'm very interested in anagrams and cryptography, so these objects have fascinated me, these unbreakable codes.
-E. Borodin
As in, it's possible it was just someone who was really bored making stuff up for the sake of making it up. It's filled with pictures of plants that don't exist. It could've just been a total work of fiction made purely for entertainment. I'd love to know what it says though.
Ok, I see what you mean.
There's a connection mckenna made, ed Kelley told John Dee he fell asleep in a tomb and awoke with a bizzare book and a vile of red powder. If mckenna was right and Dee sold the voynich manuscript to Rudolph II, than its possible that Kelley did just find this thing. Though ed Kelley is said to have had no ears, generally they remove the ears of con-men and thieves so if an earless person comes around you know not to trust them. so Dee and Kelley could have made this thing with the intention of fetching a high price for it...Though it has been run through computers at Yale and could not be translated...one debunker showed how using a graph of letters and a cardboard sheet with randomly spaced holes supperimposed over the graph of letters, then you write the letters in the cut out holes on another paper, it creates a "language" that doesn't mean anything and can not be translated ...though if this was the case why does there appear to be so many similairties to known languages?
It is a true mystery with a bizzare history, dating tells us it's from around 15 century, and while John Dee (13 July 1527 – 1608 or 1609) was not alive in the 1400s, which punches a hole in the Dee as the author theory, he could have had an old book from the 1400s with blank pages that he filled in, paper was not produced in industrial quantities and older books may have been used if available....maybe ed Kelley really did find it, and I'm sure that Kelley and Dee sold it to Rudolph through a third party, but the book itself would still been a mystery, if it was Dee and Kelley where did they get it? If it was nit Dee then where did this thing come from? I've heard it had connection to the alchemists Roger bacon, but I'm not sure if that's accurate either...
An interesting mystery regardless.
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As for the gobekli tepe post response, those pillars are 6-18feet tall, the tallest are 18 feet in height and weigh 16 tons, this is 7000 years before the pyramid at giza, predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel. Gobekli tepe is Dated to be 11,500 - 12,000 years old.
-E. Borodin
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Ezuma
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22206951 - 09/08/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dunno to me it just looks like kinda a dumb candle holder, though I guess we've got lots of dumb designs now. My money would be on it being just some sort of bizarre instrument for some sort of astronomy based pseudo science maybe, or simply decorative. Either way though, not particularly mysterious
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makaveli8x8
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maybe its just a board game like monopoly
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22206992 - 09/08/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said:

is it just me or does it look like the floor is poured cement, and the base to the big pillar offcenter right looks poured cement as well?
that would explain a lot, for example the carvings are sticking out, which means they either shaved all the stone around the engravings which would have taken FOREVER, or they used a different tactic like poured cement/stone.
If it was poured cement, after 10,000 years or whatever, it might be hard to tell that it was made like that. I mean I don't know how they say its stone and not poured is what im getting at, what methods are they using to determine that and would 10,000 years affect their results
I'm certain they are carved stone, though I can't find any information as to the type of stone.
Gobekli tepe is said to have been intentionally buried under sand and abandoned, so it's been under ground for a LONG time, which may create that appearance...still as I said before, those pillars are 6-18feet tall, the tallest are 18 feet in height and weigh 16 tons, this is 7000 years before the pyramid at giza, predating the discovery of metals, pottery or even the wheel. Gobekli tepe is Dated to be 11,500 - 12,000 years old.
...and that blows my mind!
Also, They should have had no prior engineering or masonery knowledge at that point, yet they built this large intricate temple, with massive stone blocks... if civilization is only as old as they say, then gobekli tepe holds some mysteries...I think civilization is MUCH older than we think it is...
-E. Borodin
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makaveli8x8
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yah it takes the perfect circumsatances for things to be preserved enough for us to find them. even then under the best, there's still going to be a limit to how long things can last. then you have retards messing with it over time, natural disasters, ect.
the most interesting thing is how all of these carvings and drawings aren't massively fucked with to be honest. like if civilization fell apart today, everyone would go around drawing dicks on all the great works we have, yet all the pictures I ever see of these ancient drawings and shit, none of them have been graffti'd up or messed with both before it was forgotten and after it was found, just seems a bit odd.
another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather, they have no aspirations to make artifacts. so whats interesting is, what suddenly makes people want to build shit, instead of just continue to hunt. most likely easier lives, having the time and wealth. so not only are we finding these old buildings, but that also means a lot of shit happened long long before they got built as well. like those people in the congo could go another 50,000 years and still not build anything due to the constant struggles
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Stonehenge
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22208292 - 09/08/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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>another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather
All of Africa was like that when Europeans came over. They would still be like that if no one had discovered them.
The dode probably had astronomical, astrological and religious meanings.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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makaveli8x8
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Stonehenge]
#22208345 - 09/08/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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lots of parts of the congo still are like that and surely other parts of Africa, they don't even have running water. that's the only reason I even know about it cuss some dude building water wells over there cuss he's like .0001% pigmeat or something and identifies them as family, and writes books and makes movies and yah he seems to be cashing in quiet well but I guess he's gotta make a living at the same time but it still leaves a funny taste in my mouth, so conflicted nice guy tho.
anyways imagine our society 50,000 years from now if it ended today. about the only thing that would still be standing is the statue of liberty. can you imagine what some fk's would think of that after they dug that thing up or found it at the bottom of the ocean. like omg a giant fucking person holding a dildo what does it mean
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22213316 - 09/09/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
another interesting thing is how there are still parts of the world today where all they do is hunt and gather, they have no aspirations to make artifacts. so whats interesting is, what suddenly makes people want to build shit, instead of just continue to hunt. most likely easier lives, having the time and wealth. so not only are we finding these old buildings, but that also means a lot of shit happened long long before they got built as well. like those people in the congo could go another 50,000 years and still not build anything due to the constant struggles
When you said what happened that made them build, it was agriculture, suddenly there was planting and harvest of crops instead of hunting and gathering randomly, which created surplus food supply, and you very well can't carry next year's food supply around on your back or haul it from place to place, so the people settled, and with food not being a concern, and the population becoming sedentary, you get building massive temples, what else really did they have to do? And with sedimentary populations and temples comes government and working people's in trades involving things other than finding the next meal, with agriculture comes "civilization".
Nomadic people's would be after your grain supply or stored food, specially during winter months, so as a means to protect it you get armies, eventually walls go around the city, now you have walled cities with government in place and standing armies, and with that comes emperialistic conquest and attempted world domination...maybe one day we will have a civilization worthy of the name.... we are half divine incarnation and half marauding ape, and all too often when a marauding ape gets the power of standing armies, the desire for conquest, and eventually atomic weapons, it's hard to see how the divine incarnation in him will triumph, desire for material objects feeds the ape not the divine, and in modern culture you must be like junkies running dry when it comes to your lust for material goods, the Egyptians had slaves build the pyramids, modern culture turns you into slaves by exploiting your desire for material objects, which is why I put civilization in quotation above, we are going to work ourselves to death, destroy the land with toxic waste, and possibly destroy all life on earth with nuclear war-fare....
All because of agriculture.
Not to say there are not many positive results of civilization, we will eventually run out of resources or our star will supper-nova, so if we don't develop inter-stellar travel and find a new home (much like a virus moving from cell to cell, or a parasite consuming and destroying everything and then moving to the next planet, I'm not saying anything negative about humanity this time though, I'm just commenting on what humans colonizing other planets resembles) so technological development is a MUST or extinction is certain...
The ultimate goal of humanity should be to develop interstellar travel before we run out of resources or the star dies...
I'm getting way to off topic..
The short answer is, it was agriculture that made them decide to build.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22213377 - 09/09/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: lots of parts of the congo still are like that and surely other parts of Africa, they don't even have running water. that's the only reason I even know about it cuss some dude building water wells over there cuss he's like .0001% pigmeat or something and identifies them as family, and writes books and makes movies and yah he seems to be cashing in quiet well but I guess he's gotta make a living at the same time but it still leaves a funny taste in my mouth, so conflicted nice guy tho.
Part of this is because the world bank will offer developing countries loans, but they have huge interest, most countries pay of the initial loan but are forever debted by the interest, and with no money to give the international monetary fund or world bank they must give them their resources, so these countries have given all their money to the world bank, and the world bank says "you still owe us pay the fuck up" so they give away all their natural resources...you always hear people say the first world consumes the majority percentage of resources, those are not our resources, those countries were scammed by "financial hit men" and bled dry (there's a documentary called "let's make money" that goes in depth on the topic)
These people are not just lazy, or they just couldn't get it together, the world bank the IMF scammed them into be permanently unable to develop, and if other nations are not developing we can stay on top. Every luxury you enjoy in the first world deprives those in the third world.
-E. Borodin
Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/09/15 05:26 PM)
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makaveli8x8
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actually your leaving out 1 potential outcome, we get help from someone/something that helps us leave earth. but they get here and see what we've done to this planet and realize we don't deserve saving
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22213448 - 09/09/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: actually your leaving out 1 potential outcome, we get help from someone/something that helps us leave earth. but they get here and see what we've done to this planet and realize we don't deserve saving
I don't think there is going to be an easy way out, we all pray that we can steam ahead full speed destroying nature and depleating our resources and that at the last minute aliens from zeta reticuli will swoop down in shining golden discs and save us...
Or the mainstream religious folks think that the rapture will occur, and God will come down and save us...
Like mckenna said (he said something to this effect any way) we can keep doing what we are doing but it won't bring the guy from Galilee, and it won't bring friendly aliens from arcturus...so we can gas tel Aviv and bomb Baghdad, and destroy the environment and poison the seas, and all its going to do is leave a bigger mess for us to clean up..
-E. Borodin
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makaveli8x8
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were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive. not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons
edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction
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Beanhead
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22213571 - 09/09/15 06:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Azul maya
I want to create unique colours too
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NotTheDevil
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: Beanhead]
#22213601 - 09/09/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most people really underestimate stone work. With nothing but stone and stone tools you can carve anything that can be carved. Think "Statue of David" levels of carving ability. The only significant differences are that stone tools wear out faster and don't cut as quickly as metal ones. The detail that can be achieved however depends far more on the artist than on the materials available for their tools.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22215995 - 09/10/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive. not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons
edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: were much better off accepting what we have, appreciating it, and try to preserve it, rather than rape it and say oh but we'll just fly to another planet some day......that's being neive. not only are we going to ruin the planet faster, we may never leave this planet for hundreds of different reasons
edit; not to mention 99% of the shit were doing to ruin this planet isn't even related/used towards advancing in that direction
Exactly! If we are going to destroy our planet it should at least be as a means of achieving the space-travel to find new ones...
We are looting the future for resources...
It's a race, we must develop inter-stellar travel before one of 3 things happens ·Before the sun super-novas ·Before our planet is devoid of resources ·Or before other destruction, such as a nuclear war killing all life on earth, or a plague driving us to extinction, or a meteorite strike or other natural disaster...
This world may be like a sand mandala, a beautiful intricate creation that looks like it should be preserved, but in the end is destined to be destroyed, it came about, existed, and ended, seemingly for no reason at all...
Since know one knows why we are here or what we are supposed to be doing here it's hard to pick the right coarse of action...
I just make sure that all my actions are peaceful, motivated by love and compassion, and are always striving to remain on the positive end of the spectrum, I only know enough to know that if something is positive in existence, it's probably the correct path...
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: unexplained ancient artifacts [Re: NotTheDevil]
#22216021 - 09/10/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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NotTheDevil said: Most people really underestimate stone work. With nothing but stone and stone tools you can carve anything that can be carved. Think "Statue of David" levels of carving ability. The only significant differences are that stone tools wear out faster and don't cut as quickly as metal ones. The detail that can be achieved however depends far more on the artist than on the materials available for their tools.
I don't know enough about masonry or stone carving to say one way or the other...but:
Building something like that takes engineering skill, these people should have had no prior accumulated knowledge in that area.
(Gobekli tepe) during the first phase, pre-pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), circles of massive T-shaped stone pillars were erected. More than 200 pillars in about 20 circles are currently known through geophysical surveys. Each pillar has a height of up to 6 m (20 ft) and a weight of up to 20 tons. They are fitted into sockets that were hewn out of the bedrock-Wikipedia
How we're the lifting these 20 ton stones?
People say they can be dragged with ropes and rollers, but every experiment I have seen where modern people tried to recreate these techniques they either failed, or succeeded with so much difficulty that it seems very illogical that that was how these people were moving these things.
I think human civilization is FAR older than we think, ans these people were far more advanced than we can imagine...
Like I said, if the great pyramid at giza had not survived to modern times, we would probably claim that they would have not been capable of building it...
There's more that we don't know about human history than we do.
-E. Borodin
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