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OfflineFrog
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Thief
    #2219557 - 01/05/04 03:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I was talking to a friend tonight. I was helping her move. I pulled a printer down off of her closet shelf, and asked her if it worked. She said yes, and that if I wanted to borrow it, go ahead, because she had a printer from work that she "took".

Here's what bothered me:

I know about karma. I also know what the bible teaches. I think about how where ever we choose the "low road", we will be paying for it somewhere in the future, or we may have to come back and learn the lessons that we didn't learn. Everything we do impacts us, whether in this life or in the next.

Do you steal? Not many people think that it's stealing when they take something from their place of employment. Entitlement?

Or how about this....

Is this stealing? Would this affect you? You move into a new apartment, and you plug the cable line into your T.V., and you discover that you have "free" cable. Do you keep the free cable? Do you call the cable company and notify them that you are receiving free cable and want to switch to being billed?

Are you a thief? Are you borrowing? Are you entitled? Do you even think about it?


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219621 - 01/05/04 03:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

karma, the bible?

ehh, no objective truth to that stuff, its all your personal psychology, friend.

north america was stolen from its natives, are you giving anything back to them?

corporations make mass profit off theft constantly, is stealing from them truly theft?


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and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219623 - 01/05/04 03:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That's not the point, pos. Not for the purposes of this thread. Buddy.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219632 - 01/05/04 03:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

capitalism functions through the fucking-over of people who supply labour.

sometimes not, but many times - yes.

do you dig? thats my point, in a land of thieves does theft even exist? theft laws only exist to protect the thieves = the rich.

sure, not all rich are thieves, but many are.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219642 - 01/05/04 03:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm talking about taking things that don't belong to you.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219646 - 01/05/04 03:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

duhh, really? so-am-I.

what is your belief on the word "belong" based on? property is a pretty fucked up concept, which, in the western hemisphere, among other regions, is completely based on THEFT, well, not really theft, but violent robbery actualized through murder.

im thinking big, try to keep up.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219647 - 01/05/04 03:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How about this: Two wrongs don't make a right.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219649 - 01/05/04 03:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, the problem with that is that the other guy keeps doing wrong and doesnt give a fuck about your pithy morality.

if you want to stay human, you have to choose sides.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219653 - 01/05/04 03:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say it depends on your intentions. and morals.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219657 - 01/05/04 04:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It's not my problem that someone else is fucking with his karma. I'm only responsible for my karma.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219676 - 01/05/04 04:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with shroomism. Ive stolen alot of books, I did this because I was aware that the corporation I was stealing from makes massive profits, and that I am poor.

I am also aware that if I steal books from them I save money (say..20 bucks) , and that if I take these new books and sell them to a independant used book store they, and I, make a profit

they = 10 bucks

me = 10 bucks, (thats 30 overall)

then I go to an independant cafe and spend 10 bucks on fair trade coffee, I am helping them, and the indegenous farmers of ecuador make a profit.

then I go see some live music performed by a local band, and spend the rest, --- helping them profit.

so in conclusion, my act of "theft" is actually an act of capital re-distribution. I take from the rich, and give to the not-rich.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219677 - 01/05/04 04:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I also play modern robin hood


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219727 - 01/05/04 04:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Stealing is wrong, no matter what your motives. You are creating your own karma. I'm sorry for you.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinenubious
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219730 - 01/05/04 04:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'd feel that the free cable would be karma's way of giving back :wink:


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219734 - 01/05/04 04:34 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

you are trapped within your own dogma, created by a religious heirarchy with one motive - control of the populous.

your belief stays inside your head and doesnt go anywhere else, dont worry about me, my life is ruled by my belief, and I am able to see the bigger picture without the use of fantasy.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219735 - 01/05/04 04:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

and anyways, Karma is related to intent, not action, but the intent behind the action,

remember what Krishna said to Arjuna before his epic battle?

hmmmmmmmmm?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: nubious]
    #2219737 - 01/05/04 04:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nubious said:
I'd feel that the free cable would be karma's way of giving back :wink:




No, because you're not "getting back" what you think belonged to you in an honest way.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219738 - 01/05/04 04:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I was hanging out talking to this guy and another guy came up and asked us if we wanted to go eat some robin hood almond butter. I thought that was a really cool thing to call it, I laughed, he made my day a little brighter. I didn't have any almond butter, but boy it would have tasted so good.. The only thievery I perform is.. well, I used to steal lots of bagels from this one dumpster. I've actually stolen a lot of food from dumpsters outside big grocery stores and stuff. I wonder how I'll pay for that in my future... I shudder to imagine the spirits protecting dumpster food. And I'm not talking about the acne-covered dickheads on the fastrack to corporate success.. I'm thinking more about the guardian spirits.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Thief [Re: Frog]
    #2219742 - 01/05/04 04:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ok I gotta play devils advocate.
so say you just got kidnapped and beaten and dropped into the middle of the forest with your hands bound and after days and days of wandering you find the occasional pool of water and then you stumble across a store, labeled Satan's House of Bread and other Foodstuffs, and you go in and beg with the man for a free piece of bread or you will starve and he just laughs at you.. now they charge 50 bucks a loaf and they usually throw away a bunch of bread when the store closes which is in 15 minutes..so you are at the point of starvation.. and stealing one loaf of bread from this major greed and fear based corporation which is partly responsible for your not being able to get bread for free in the first place... you are dying of starvation.. is it bad karma to steal that loaf?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Thief [Re: Positronius]
    #2219743 - 01/05/04 04:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
you are trapped within your own dogma, created by a religious heirarchy with one motive - control of the populous.

your belief stays inside your head and doesnt go anywhere else, dont worry about me, my life is ruled by my belief, and I am able to see the bigger picture without the use of fantasy.




I don't believe what I believe because of someone's creation of a religious heirarchy, whateverthefuck that means.

I believe what I believe because of what's inside me. And you don't see the bigger picture, my friend. You, my friend, are short-sighted. You are acting on your impulses based on the "here and now". You don't see the big picture.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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