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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinesoldatheero
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Thought Experiment
    #22195315 - 09/06/15 12:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Do you agree that anything that can happen will happen?

If so then could you not apply this to your own being and conclude that after your existence in this body (or as this body) than you must be born again in the future?

“It is not more surprising to be born twice than once.” Voltaire

Why do so many consider the concept of reincarnation to be some supernatural, illogical and unlikely phenomenon? It seems to me that there must be some sort of mental block of which makes the idea seem so impossible or outlandish. Why is it so possible for people to conceive that they have lived many lives?

Reality by virtue of it being real is existence itself. Clearly it has the capacity to cause your being as here you are. Given an infinite amount of time it is absolutely certain that you will in fact exist again in the "future" after this life. Since you will have no consciousness in the interim it will be as if no time had past and you will experience a ceaseless continuum of consciousness, just like you do every night which you go to sleep.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22195389 - 09/06/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey, diddle, diddle,
The cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon;
The little dog laughed
To see such sport,
And the dish ran away with the spoon.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22195457 - 09/06/15 01:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Simple. Conceiving of something does not give it validity.


--------------------


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22195504 - 09/06/15 01:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE

DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH

LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH DEATH

LIFE LIFE DEATH DEATH LIFE LIFE DEATH DEATH LIFE LIFE

DEATH LIFE DEATH LIFE DEATH LIFE DEATH LIFE DEATH LIFE

DEATHLIFEDEATHLIFEDEATHLIFEDEATHLIFEDEATHLIFE

DLEIAFTEH!!!
LDIEFAETH!!!


--------------------
:hank:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22195772 - 09/06/15 05:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Do you agree that anything that can happen will happen?





No, that is not the case.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22196565 - 09/06/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Do you agree that anything that can happen will happen?




It's something I've considered, but no I don't agree.

Quote:

If so then could you not apply this to your own being and conclude that after your existence in this body (or as this body) than you must be born again in the future?




What do you mean by 'you'? Are you proposing that an identical physical configuration of me must arise elsewhere/when which will produce or 'tune in to' or whatever a similar consciousness again, or is there some other piece behind the scenes you're speaking of?

I think it also depends on what you mean by 'anything.' Are you speaking to any potential branching configuration of events in our universe, or the BIG anything--any possible configuration of universes with potentially differing properties in a multiverse?  In the former case, I'm not convinced that things work that way (reincarnation). I cannot speak to the latter and whether a stable universe exists wherein reincarnation is the way of things.

Quote:

Why do so many consider the concept of reincarnation to be some supernatural, illogical and unlikely phenomenon? It seems to me that there must be some sort of mental block of which makes the idea seem so impossible or outlandish. Why is it so possible for people to conceive that they have lived many lives?




Perhaps because they don't understand what that thing is which traverses lifetimes and no one has produced a satisfying explanation.

Quote:

Reality by virtue of it being real is existence itself. Clearly it has the capacity to cause your being as here you are.




okay

Quote:

Given an infinite amount of time it is absolutely certain that you will in fact exist again in the "future" after this life. Since you will have no consciousness in the interim it will be as if no time had past and you will experience a ceaseless continuum of consciousness, just like you do every night which you go to sleep.




Why 'you'? Why does it have to be about retaining my cohesion as an entity?



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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22196584 - 09/06/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Somewhere in your house, I'd be willing to bet
There's a picture of that grinning hippy from Tibet - the Dalai Llama

He's a lovely, funny fella, he gives soundbites galore
But let's not forget that back in Tibet, those funky monks used to dick the poor, yeah

And the Buddhist line about future lives is the perfect way to stop the powerless rising up, I reckon
And he tells the poor they will live again, but he's rich now so it's easy for him to say





--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: ballsalsa]
    #22197626 - 09/06/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Simple. Conceiving of something does not give it validity.




This is an argument using logic, there are such things as logical proofs. You do not even argue against my logic here instead you just make the claim "it has no validity" and this is not really an argument now is it.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22197644 - 09/06/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If reality has caused you to come into being once than there is no reason to simply assume it will not cause it to happen again. The perspective that you should only live once is therefore not the default "null hypothesis" unless you give a justified, logical reasoning for this. So I ask, what specific reason do you have to assume that you will not be born again in the future?


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22198053 - 09/06/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Quote:

Simple. Conceiving of something does not give it validity.




This is an argument using logic, there are such things as logical proofs. You do not even argue against my logic here instead you just make the claim "it has no validity" and this is not really an argument now is it.





Well, OK then. Conceive of jumping off a 5 story building without a parachute nor any cushioning and then do it and make us all of us believers in the process.


--------------------


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22198295 - 09/06/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well thought experiments are nice and glad..the movement of the weather is a cure for the common disorder of Pills..or psychology, the nature of weather is a hidden Succubus..which moans and wines her desires through the air of our temporal nature..and then we as us give the Beef...which is in the radion of Poker..or the Good Shlocking..in which Wild Bill hutchinsins/Hickock is the lay of the greats.. which is a knowing becoming business..and the meaning of life is to give into the effects of the weather..or make decisions that are Prosperous.. The most living being on this planet is the Moth..and that is a Nascent Nexus..of the term for Serial Killers(I Work FBI, Lately)..We have the power now..to stop the programming..of Serial Killers..and Burglars or murderers... the nexus is on the paint so to speak..we do not need an offended system to hire us to incarcerate people..The Logic of the Loam..is a one up, to the tell of the butterfly..and the movie going saints..it is a last call to the unloving moments of the long lasting Djinn(Which is Poker)..and that Wild Bill Died..as a man Sublimely, into and out of Patients..which in a N(55)eutronium.. 

The Nexus of this topic is usually, like styling your hair..or making jibber jabs with James Bond..but the motion of the ocean is a currency..and we are all slaves to it..in which we trade our pride..for the price of a Kentucky donut. 

We are necessarily slaves...and we are necessarily free at the same time..life is boundless to the slaves of the mourning..and the rising sun in the east..it is a boundless adventure indeed..and the moment i seek a woman..i know im going to come..and that is honest comeuppance.. which in a news speak..is probably left better to be classifed as a species of outgoing behaviour..the hermit is a true little Dermit.. or Giant in the Graded fields of Able..and Cain..it is a true trust that we have with the Bible..and the elementary knowlegde of the one Supreme Lord..this is like saying that if i have typed this long into and out of the causm..into and out of the states of mind..or comparison..into and out of the common causm..and therein you will find that you are a nexus in and of your selves..

this means obviously that we have choice..you theoretically..could recite,
a number 6...over and over and over again..to get the point of the tangential revelation, but you would never have to carry the burdon farther than your common attainment..or free will or choice..so if something is going to happen..we have to make it happen..and that is the logic of the Transporter..we are here determining out fate..in and out of


Edited by BrendanFlock (09/06/15 05:17 PM)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22198327 - 09/06/15 05:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Everything will happen eventually..we know then therein that we are everything right now..so therein everything happens everyday of your life..luckily we can change and create ourselves..into and out of the moment; Participle, is in the honest Participaction..or hone(4)st union of stuff..or things like the Mummy movie..he seems evil..but he has to jump into a mirrored gate scroll to turn into a Hydra..and that is the relegation of Evil on Earth..this is the Scroll in which we play our lives..and we release into war and becoming into heavens..for the military soldiers..of the Vikings..and the hanging men..who want to kill themselves..and go to Heaven, with God on their behalf!


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22198335 - 09/06/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Peace is honest...i think that if you find peace of mind..than you can attain to these types of philosophies..


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #22198365 - 09/06/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Well, OK then. Conceive of jumping off a 5 story building without a parachute nor any cushioning and then do it and make us all of us believers in the process.




What are you talking about? It's not about what one could imagine or conceiving of whatever one imagines and than arbitrarily saying it is true no matter how illogical and impossible. It is about forming a logical argument, if one thing is true than from that we infer another thing to be true and so on.

What you said is just an logical impossibility so I do not understand how you think what you said is a rebuttal. I take it you are just being absurd since you have no real argument against what I am saying. Or to confirm what I have called you out on in other treads you seem to think the only method of inquiry into the truth is through scientific experiment.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22199719 - 09/06/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
if one thing is true than from that we infer another thing to be true and so on.





but how can you tell if something is true to begin with?  What makes your subsequent inferences true?


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22200011 - 09/06/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What do you mean by 'you'? Are you proposing that an identical physical configuration of me must arise elsewhere/when which will produce or 'tune in to' or whatever a similar consciousness again, or is there some other piece behind the scenes you're speaking of?





No it does not have to be another physical body identical to yours now. My perspective is that a person is not the body but is the experience of being or that experience of I AM which is not the body itself. It is just consciousness being conscious of itself which as human beings just so happens takes place in relation to the body - experiencing the body.

Quote:

I think it also depends on what you mean by 'anything.' Are you speaking to any potential branching configuration of events in our universe, or the BIG anything--any possible configuration of universes with potentially differing properties in a multiverse?  In the former case, I'm not convinced that things work that way (reincarnation). I cannot speak to the latter and whether a stable universe exists wherein reincarnation is the way of things.




We are all apart of and within the ONE everything that exists, the distinction between the atoms that make up your skin and the atoms that make up the air outside of your skin is within the human mind and its conceptions. We are all one with reality itself, the average human mind sees and experiences itself as the body and that I believe is why this idea of life after death seems so inconceivable. After your body dies does reality stop existing? Of course not, so if it does not stop existing and it is the cause of your being than what reason is there to believe that it will not cause you to experience that I AM again after this life?

“I do not need spiritual enlightenment to know that I am one with the universe. That is just good physics.” -  George Wald, a Nobel laureate in biology


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


Edited by soldatheero (09/06/15 11:14 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22200045 - 09/06/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

what reason is there to believe that it will not cause you to experience that I AM again after this life?




Whatever you think you are in particular is just as temporary as the body. I think you know this, but such an understanding is just no fun.

Trans-personal reincarnation is just as nutty as sky daddy and other mystic religious ideas.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: Rahz]
    #22200146 - 09/07/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Whatever you think you are in particular is just as temporary as the body. I think you know this, but such an understanding is just no fun.




No because I am not talking about what you think you are but what you are.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: soldatheero]
    #22200247 - 09/07/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Without the particulars, memory, personality etc. there is no "you". That is clearly what you are implying, that the particulars are transferred from one body to another. Without that reincarnation isn't very special. I've been reincarnated billions of times. I'm the squirrels in your back yard, the bugs on your windshield, the hot babes in your dreams. Ok, not the hot babes in your dreams.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Thought Experiment [Re: Rahz]
    #22200411 - 09/07/15 01:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No, no I am certainly not! I am talking about just that awareness, your consciousness being conscious of itself. Consciousness of consciousness means self awareness. You can have moments of consciousness in which you forget who you are and that certainly does not mean that you no longer exist. Personality and self identity are effects of that self-awareness and not the other way around.

Your future self will not care whether or not it remembers the past it really doesn't make a difference, its not like you will exist any less whether or not you remember "who you are" or not you are still going to feel pain and pleasure and exist in the moment.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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