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Offlinemusiclover420
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Registered: 11/06/12
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Alternatives to Politicians
    #22193152 - 09/05/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Seems like we really should re organize our legal system to try and fight corruption and or stupid politicians in general.

Seems to me like the only reason we needed politicians in the first place is becouse there are to many people for us all to play a direct role in our government.

But with the internet we could have online open votes and stuff, there are tons of possibilities and I am sure we could come up with a better alternative...

Any thoughts?


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineBitter Cactus
reformed bad boy
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193160 - 09/05/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:knowwhatnevermind:


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinemusiclover420
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Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22193169 - 09/05/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:

Anyone have some real input?


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineAchillita
Back to the basics
Male


Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193202 - 09/05/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'd imagine using the internet for the voting would easily be corruptible(also easy to fraud), and many people would argue that it'd take away the poor vote as they won't always have access to the internet to vote.

But in reality it could be done pretty easily, but since the internet is a new technology we won't see it happen for maybe 50 years or so. Also doing so would probably have to rewrite our constitution to some extent and change the fact that we are a Republic.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Achillita]
    #22193334 - 09/05/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah my first thought with internet corruption would be propaganda and media.

All you would have to do is campaign really hard to change enough opinions in favor of your own, wouldn't be much different then how it is now though :shrug:

The poor thing came to mind for me as well, but they could just go use a library computer or something assuming they want to vote.

I think it could be done pretty easily too and if done right could be a major improvement over current systems.

Just a thought, thanks for your input Achillita.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193393 - 09/05/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Just stop the legal bribery and problem solved. People try to work the wrong end, stopping the pols from giving quid pro quo. If they can't accept bribes they have no quo to give any quid for. Publicly financed campaigns and no contributions of any kind.

Elect trump, he's so rich no one could afford to bribe him.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22193410 - 09/05/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Elect trump, he's so rich no one could afford to bribe him.




:rofldrunk:

I saw a video of him saying "what is so bad about China anyways" :paranoid: I will not be surprised if he turns the US into a military dictatorship


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
Other


Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193418 - 09/05/15 04:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:llamastare:


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InvisibleCowb0yNeal00
Other


Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 11,059
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193425 - 09/05/15 04:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Seems like we really should re organize our legal system to try and fight corruption and or stupid politicians in general.

Seems to me like the only reason we needed politicians in the first place is becouse there are to many people for us all to play a direct role in our government.

But with the internet we could have online open votes and stuff, there are tons of possibilities and I am sure we could come up with a better alternative...

Any thoughts?



mushrooms for the masses


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Offlinemusiclover420
psychonaut
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Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22193458 - 09/05/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Shrooms and Aya for the masses.

Quote:

It's a big fucking game and the sad truth is that most of us suck at it.




Isn't that the whole point of the game though? To learn and progress/ get better at it.

I do agree that corruption will always manifest at our current state, I have faith we will overcome it though shrug:

Only time will tell... Greed is what drives all of the class ism in the world, all we have to do is overcome selfishness which is slowly happening.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Invisibledionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad
Female

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22193463 - 09/05/15 04:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We need to just draw lots. Every eligible U.S. citizen over the age of 25 entered into the dreaded "political lottery." Similar to jury duty but drafted into 2-4  years of public service.This goes for local level and federal seats. Most people DO NOT want that level of power but these are the kind of people we actually need; they'll have a better understanding of "with great power comes great responsibility."

I also like the idea of using the internet (and library computers)for voting on legislative measures. The easiest way to do this would probably be just to require the use of an identification number to register one's vote. Drivers license ID#, Walkers ID, social-security number, etc.

I would remove the role of legislation from politicians and have their role turn into one of implementation/enforcement. The people have voted to dismantle the...I don't know...EPA. The politicians role would then be to come up with how to dismantle the organization efficiently. I think a more "direct democracy" approach would encourage people to become more involved with the process; because they would no longer be able to take comfort in a so-called "representative" speaking and acting on their behalf. They either need to speak up or shut up.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: dionysiandame]
    #22193486 - 09/05/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

That is definitely another cool idea.

I have talked with friends a lot of the subject of how people with certain mental disorders tend to be drawn towards being politicians.

I forget exactly which one but most politicians display signs of of having it. Something about power and attention though, and being able to deceive people.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193516 - 09/05/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:

But with the internet we could have online open votes and stuff, there are tons of possibilities and I am sure we could come up with a better alternative...

Any thoughts?



In any system you'll be able to think about, the equivalent of politicians will pop up. There will always be a small group of people that puts forth opinions that turn into proposals that can be voted for, opinion leaders who influence the masses and people who fill in the gaps between democratically agreed policy points and actual policies.

You can do away with today's politicians and expect a better system to pop up, but the reverse is more likely to happen: a direct democracy without a political layer will create a vacuum in which new key players will emerge, but uncontrollably, and before you know it you'll have a Fourth Reich on your hands.


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Invisibledionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad
Female

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193522 - 09/05/15 04:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
:thumbup:

That is definitely another cool idea.

I have talked with friends a lot of the subject of how people with certain mental disorders tend to be drawn towards being politicians.

I forget exactly which one but most politicians display signs of of having it. Something about power and attention though, and being able to deceive people.




I think it's Narcissist Personality Disorder. Narcissists are highly charismatic people capable of gaining popularity and traction through the careful manipulation of their image, combined with doling out measured amounts of abuse when necessary, and creating "society" around themselves based on triangulation. They're also adept liars and capable of using people to reach their aims with a lack of conscience that can be overwhelming to the "average" person.

Unfortunately, many societies consider narcissistic traits to be desirable, even admirable, until they end up over the barrel because of it. Whether believing in "change" that was never going to come or buying into wars delivered with half-truths or outright falsehoods,or economic policies that will deliver the opposite of what is promised; most people will shrug and say "What do you expect? No one expects politicians to tell the truth." because in the end, it isn't actions that matter but words. And Narcs tend to be very very good with words.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: Stonehenge]
    #22193535 - 09/05/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Just stop the legal bribery and problem solved. People try to work the wrong end, stopping the pols from giving quid pro quo. If they can't accept bribes they have no quo to give any quid for. Publicly financed campaigns and no contributions of any kind.





or we could start electing people instead of reptilians

Quote:

Elect trump, he's so rich no one could afford to bribe him.





lol.


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Invisibledionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad
Female

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: koraks]
    #22193537 - 09/05/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:

But with the internet we could have online open votes and stuff, there are tons of possibilities and I am sure we could come up with a better alternative...

Any thoughts?



In any system you'll be able to think about, the equivalent of politicians will pop up. There will always be a small group of people that puts forth opinions that turn into proposals that can be voted for, opinion leaders who influence the masses and people who fill in the gaps between democratically agreed policy points and actual policies.

You can do away with today's politicians and expect a better system to pop up, but the reverse is more likely to happen: a direct democracy without a political layer will create a vacuum in which new key players will emerge, but uncontrollably, and before you know it you'll have a Fourth Reich on your hands.





I may be naive, but I actually think allowing people to feel MORE empowered will actually limit the ability of fringe groups whether to the "left" or the "right (I hate those terms. We need to find better ones.). We have to remember that MOST extremist platforms, even the Third Reich, did/do not form out of a vacuum. The German people pre-Third Reich were disenfranchised, angry, and facing very tough economic times, which created a perfect storm for the rise of the NSDAP.

The people felt powerless. They reacted to this feeling of powerlessness with devastating results. We're seeing something similar occurring in Greece right now as well as in some portions of the U.S.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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Invisibledionysiandame
Mischievous Maenad
Female

Registered: 08/27/13
Posts: 324
Loc: Samothrace
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193551 - 09/05/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
Quote:

musiclover420 said:
Shrooms and Aya for the masses.

Quote:

It's a big fucking game and the sad truth is that most of us suck at it.




Isn't that the whole point of the game though? To learn and progress/ get better at it.

I do agree that corruption will always manifest at our current state, I have faith we will overcome it though shrug:

Only time will tell... Greed is what drives all of the class ism in the world, all we have to do is overcome selfishness which is slowly happening.




I don't know, some people are just fucking evil. Even among those who have taken psychedelics you can find more than a handful that are just fucked up assholes. lol

My opinion is that until the singularity things will continue to actually get worse and more complicated over time. I'm sure you've heard the saying that it's always darkest before the dawn.

Humanity is such a state of momentum that our fucked up ways aren't going to change until the time comes that reality changes so much that our past ways couldn't even function if we tried.

Not to say any of this is "bad". It is what it is. But utopia isn't going to come via a change of government policy; whether that be our current form of government or some other form that might be erected. As long as their are rules their will be corruption. IMO

But yeah in the meantime the best we can do is to continue to stand up for our rights and push the power structure to meet our demands. And the only way to do that IMO is through rebellion/protest or self-sustainability. For as long as your life is dependent on a job you are a slave.

I do have faith in humanity. I don't have faith in the law.




I used to think "Utopia" would have been Roddenberry's Federation.

Sometimes I still feel that way. When I'm alone at night.

And have had a few drinks.

And have finished reading a crap load of Star Trek fanfic.


--------------------
He (Dionysos) keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions. :psychsplit:
Yes! And their brains are releasing adrenaline, dopamine, even dimethyltryptamine from the pineal gland! This has serious educational value! Thanatophobia and this N.D.E. is giving us euphoric altered awareness! Don't you see, Princess? We were all born to die! – Finn the Human
Pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot. BBHMM.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: dionysiandame]
    #22193567 - 09/05/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm afraid you are indeed naive. Sympathetic, but naive. A power vacuum will give rise to fractions that will fill that vacuum. Distributed, unstratified democracy will break up any decision making power and the masses will be too slow to stop any ambitious fraction that gains momentum. Improving government is always a good idea, but destabilizing it by doing away with politicians is just a silly, naive and dangerous thought. It will first result in unprecedented inertia, followed by growing dissatisfaction and finally an autocracy as some power hungry dimwit rises to the occasion.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
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Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: musiclover420]
    #22193598 - 09/05/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We're so deep in the shit it's almost impossible to shut it down without it causing some major chaos, it's gonna take like some kind of catastrophe of apocalyptic proportions to take it down, to take us all down.

Another alternative tho would be to educate the masses, to encourage free thinking, true independence, the reason politics even exist is cuz we can't take care of ourselves, that's why alcohol is legal and dangerous drugs flood the streets, so the politicians have more reason to pass these laws that restrict our freedoms even more.

It's all about control, thus we either learn to control ourselves or we learn to take it in the butt.


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: zZZz]
    #22193622 - 09/05/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you are in politics you are a poitician.


--------------------


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Alternatives to Politicians [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22193640 - 09/05/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This song sums up my feelings on "utopia", I tried to find lyrics but couldn't so here is the song:


Ekoostik Hookah - Utopia

Quote:

I'm sure you've heard the saying that it's always darkest before the dawn.




That is a good way of summing it up, lets hope we make it through the night :wink:

Or maybe dawn has already come and we are just riding out the aftermath of the night :shrug:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you are in politics you are a poitician.





Pooitician's aye? :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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