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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime?
    #22192416 - 09/05/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I was outside smoking my hemp/tobacco cigarette. The thoughts came to me, "You can not have a crime with out a victim" or "Drug use is a victimless crime". Then the idea came, "Is drug use a self inflicted crime?". Technically it must be right? At least in the United States. Is the government holding the standpoint of you the drug users are the victims?

As a Libertarian I believe drug use is a victimless crime. However I have come to discover different such sorts about this subject. Such as "Common law" and "Statutory" law.

Victimless crime :
"A victimless crime is a term used to refer to actions that have been made illegal but which do not directly violate or threaten the rights of any other individual. It often involves consensual acts, or solitary acts in which no other person is involved. No one is calling for help from the police. For example, in the United Kingdom, current victimless crimes include prostitution, gambling, and recreational drug use. Edwin Schur and Hugo Bedau state in their book Victimless Crimes: Two Sides of a Controversy that "some of these laws produce secondary crime, and all create new 'criminals' many of whom are otherwise law-abiding citizens and people in authority.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime

Common law :
"Common law (also known as case law or precedent) is law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals that decide individual cases, as opposed to statutes adopted through the legislative process or regulations issued by the executive branch."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

In this country since most drugs are illegal, when a illegal drug is used it has to be considered a self inflicted crime. You must be the victim, this is the assumption. Otherwise it could not be illegal. Right? This is not a statement of facts. It's out of my sheer thought.

Statute law :
"A statute is a formal written enactment of a legislative authority that governs a state, city or country.[1] Typically, statutes command or prohibit something, or declare policy.[1] Statutes are laws made by legislative bodies and distinguished from case law which is decided by courts, and regulations issued by government agencies.[1] Statutes are sometimes referred to as legislation or "black letter law." As a source of law, statutes are considered primary authority (as opposed to secondary authority)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute

Now I'm pretty shot-out on the entire drug war conversation and almost entirely on this subject in general. It's like beating a dead horse, but the idea, the thought and terminology of the phrase "Self inflicted crime" just made me think a little bit. The idea which I oppose that there might be a victim theoretically or even legally speaking, I found it a interesting thought and I wanted to share it with you guys.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
    #22192429 - 09/05/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't read most of the post but you clearly have never met a hard drug addict.

They lie, cheat, steal, they will fuck over anyone and everyone to get their drug. For a lot of meth and heroin users fucking over people is just part of their day. They cannot control it I have lost phones from withdrawing heroin addicts before.


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22192467 - 09/05/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I didn't read most of the post but you clearly have never met a hard drug addict.

They lie, cheat, steal, they will fuck over anyone and everyone to get their drug. For a lot of meth and heroin users fucking over people is just part of their day. They cannot control it I have lost phones from withdrawing heroin addicts before.




That conclusion is faulty considering you don't know me. On top of not even reading the entire-post is even more non substantive.

For the sake of your consideration, to inform you, I have been good friends with meth users and hardcore pill heads. I have seen these people many times take a pill and shoot it up threw a needle, consensually. Some eventually out of addiction, nevertheless still consensually.

These same friends have gone to Walmart, stolen items.. then returned them to the same Walmart. Was very sad to watch.


Edited by Dr.Wongburger (09/05/15 12:35 PM)


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OfflineDetached
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Dr.Wongburger] * 1
    #22192489 - 09/05/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Drug use itself is a victimless crime but the consequences of addiction always have implications with other crimes.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Detached]
    #22192544 - 09/05/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Detached said:
Drug use itself is a victimless crime but the consequences of addiction always have implications with other crimes.



I think thats a jump. 10% of the people who have tried heroin become addicts. So only 10% have a chance of causing harm to others

And I think if you rape, cheat, and steal, you should be charged with those crimes separately. Addiction should be treated with rehab, and instead of spending thousands of dollars trying to keep all the most fucked up people in a stone building, we should give them a fresh start and treat them for their crimes separately


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OfflineThe Moose
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Detached]
    #22192548 - 09/05/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I feel this is similar to saying anger is a self inflicted crime.

I got myself pissed (got high) but that doesn't make anger a crime because I decked somebody (dumb shit you do while high). There are more consequences but really its more of the choices you make - which may be impaired but not everybody makes great choices when pissed either.


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Invisibleimpatientguy
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Detached]
    #22192552 - 09/05/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty much what detached said

And I guarantee that more than 10 percent of people who try heroine get addicted.

Lol where in the world did you get 10 percent it's prolly more like 50 percent.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: impatientguy]
    #22192560 - 09/05/15 12:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

impatientguy said:
Pretty much:whathesaid:

And I guarantee that more than 10 percent of people who try heroine get addicted.

Lol where in the world did you get 10 percent it's prolly more like 50 percent.



Lol I posted this in another thread



Very true statistic. The 10% who do get addicted become fucked tho


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: The Moose]
    #22192567 - 09/05/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Moose said:
I feel this is similar to saying anger is a self inflicted crime.

I got myself pissed (got high) but that doesn't make anger a crime because I decked somebody (dumb shit you do while high). There are more consequences but really its more of the choices you make - which may be impaired but not everybody makes great choices when pissed either.




I see what your are saying. The thing is prohibition does not prohibit anger. hmmm.. good point tho if looked at that way.
What I mean is... To clarify my original post, I do not mean to state or to imply subject of/on the crimes and stuff that may happen by the drug user separate from the drug using. I mean the actual act of using the illegal drug(s) itself being a self inflicted crime turning the user into the victim- creating the crime. hmm.. almost like if one were to suicide, suicide is a crime and the victim is the person who killed him self.


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Invisibleimpatientguy
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: topdog82]
    #22192569 - 09/05/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It is estimated that about 23 percent of individuals who try heroin become addicted
According to www.drugabuse.gov › ... › DrugFacts


Edit:Heroin Facts - Treatment4Addiction
www.treatment4addiction.com › addiction
Facts on heroin addiction. ... Since then, heroin has become the most popular drug amongst opioid addicts. ... it is estimated that about one out of every four people who try heroin become dependent.


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Edited by impatientguy (09/05/15 12:56 PM)


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: impatientguy]
    #22192574 - 09/05/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

impatientguy said:
It is estimated that about 23 percent of individuals who try heroin become addicted
According to www.drugabuse.gov › ... › DrugFacts




I like that. Sources are where its at. :thumbup:


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Invisibleimpatientguy
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
    #22192582 - 09/05/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Haha:bashful:


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: topdog82]
    #22192596 - 09/05/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

impatientguy said:
Pretty much:whathesaid:

And I guarantee that more than 10 percent of people who try heroine get addicted.

Lol where in the world did you get 10 percent it's prolly more like 50 percent.



Lol I posted this in another thread



Very true statistic. The 10% who do get addicted become fucked tho




That was a very good video!!! I like the point he makes of "We still use drugs medically (such as where he said for pain or to stay awake), so a drug free world is unreal! I know he did not use the word medically but thats medicinal use. Some one who is Narcoleptic needs stimulants. Makes sense.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: impatientguy]
    #22192620 - 09/05/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lets go to a government site for statistics on drug abuse...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/science/the-rational-choices-of-crack-addicts.html?_r=0

This dude has run a multitude of experiments on this topic so ya...


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: topdog82]
    #22192732 - 09/05/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

selling someone something that is poisen is insidious


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Konyap]
    #22192742 - 09/05/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
selling someone something that is poisen is insidious




So the buyer would be the victim and the seller the criminal?


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
    #22192756 - 09/05/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if the dealer lied about what was in it or just knew that it was bad then yeah there would be some level of shared guilt

the buyer actually would be immoral for putting his freedom and health in jeopardy


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OfflineThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Konyap]
    #22192766 - 09/05/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:


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[quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said:
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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
    #22192772 - 09/05/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Prudence is a virtue


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Is drug use in fact a self inflicted crime? [Re: Konyap]
    #22192777 - 09/05/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
Prudence is a virtue




Yes sir lol.


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