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 daba
Stranger
Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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 Re: From athiest to christian...  [Re: trendal]
#2216473 - 01/03/04 09:50 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of course, there are many perspectives.
Sure, I agree with you on predestination (we already had a conversation similar to this).
But after all, we as humans are but a container of hydrogen and oxygen. Mix us together, and there will be mostly water, O2, and H2. But let us not forget the chance of a hydronium ion.
Cause and Effect is meaningful only in the human's perspective.
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 BadEnglish
Chief Of Staff
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 369
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#1: we have proof of evolution,no proof 0f God.Just a book that was written long ago in a time when things as simple as lightning were interpreted as signs from Heaven.
Do I believe everything in the bible is a fairy tale,absolutely not,but i do believe exaggerated and morphed over time,(like that game telephone everybody sees and hears things differently.)
#2:Even if there is a greater power the true fraud is religion.Organized religion regardless of the type is about power,corruption,deceit and control,not about God or Love.It is Organized religon that causes the majority of conflicts in the world,not the belief in a higher being.
#3:it sound to me like maybe it was aliens.A bright light,cell phone started acting crazy,feeling of euphoria,You were abducted and the Lethargy afterwards was to cover the pain of the Anal probe!
#4:I do believe that things happen as for a purpose and along predestined paths,however I believe thta you can make changes in that path sending you on a new path,while the orignal continues along as it should.There are many paths And i dont believe this has anything to do with God,but more to do with Physics,as in string theory.
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Anonymous
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Congratulations! 
Let no one dissuade you from the path you have chosen. May it lead to a happy end.
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." Psalm 14:1
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chodamunky
Cheers!
Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: trendal]
#2216774 - 01/03/04 01:54 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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This moment could not have happened differently. There is a reason for its being.
In light of what you said about the event that took place, I am going to equate it with this very moment. Are you telling me these words I just typed in this very sentence could not have been replaced by any words? that I had no choice in replying to your what you have said? that I was bound to respond to you and say exactly what I'm saying now? I'm reading a book on philosophy right now and I just finished the Free Will chapter.. 
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daba
Stranger
Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: chodamunky]
#2216789 - 01/03/04 02:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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No. That moment which you typed those words could not have happened differently?
You want proof? Look, you typed your reply and chose the words you did, just like I am typing this message right now. It couldn't have happened any other way  !
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Anonymous
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: ]
#2216967 - 01/03/04 04:21 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Mushrooms said:
Congratulations!
Let no one dissuade you from the path you have chosen. May it lead to a happy end.
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." Psalm 14:1
I am with you on this. I wish you good luck and further your relationship with God.
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PHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: SpecialEd]
#2216972 - 01/03/04 04:24 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Ignoring the fact that you are equating a divine prescence with a cid trip, why would God's prescense be terrifying? How about positive and life affirming? " -special ed
first off, dont ignore the fact that i equate gods presence with a cid trip, the experiences are diffrent but the basic fact is in both cases you are having a direct experience of something totally beyond your normal reality. I used the cid exampole becuase most of us know what the feeling of direct experience with the incredible is like from our drug experiences, and we know how frightening it can be. BTW on this topic definetly check out this link very worth while http://homepage.mac.com/bdelions/ramdass.good_friday_web.mp3
its about the good friday project in which religious visions are compared to drug trips
I think a direct experience of god as this kid is describing (possibly) would be scary. After the bible talks often about the 'fear of god' and to be honest alot of the things that bastard does in the old testament are pretty scary. But i do think it would be life affirmming and all that as well, especially after the fact when you know that god really does exist, just like i often feel very refreshed and renknewd after a good mush trip. Its the experience itself that is often hard to handle.
(ok the link didnt work, i dont know why, but herews a little bit about the experiment: http://www.bluehoney.org/GoodFri.htm
a while ago someone posted an audio of ram dass speaking about this and it was very interesting so try and dig it up )
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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The miracles of everyday life and everyday people are Real. I use the Jungian term 'synchronicity' which indicates a non-causal relationship between inner psychic events and outer physical events. The co-incidence of these factors seem to 'constellate' around avid seekers of GOD, and may very well be manifested through everyday, natural objects. It is the 'meaningful coincidence' of the inner and the outer, at a point of one's development which conveys a sense of the spiritual or 'Numinous' about it. One or more synchronistic events can and do convert previously materialistic people to spiritual people, and the fearful aspect is also a usual component to religious experiences. Theologian Rudolph Otto, who used the term 'Numinous,' that Jung picked up on, spoke of encounter with GOD as "The Mysterium Tremendum et Fascinans" - The Tremendous and Fascinating Mystery, the Tremendous aspect being reminiscent of the account of Moses bowing and covering his face in the Presence of the Lord in the 'burning bush.' This aspect strikes at the very root of one's human existence: life, death and That which transcends both. It is a Holy Awe rather than biologically-based fear.
Religious beings, like shamanistic beings who are said to be able to cross 'rainbow bridges,' can live their lives by synchronistic/miraculous events, which become for them 'spiritual manna.' The idea that 'man does not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD,' is scriptural language for this process of living for, and eventually in, a lifestyle in which these miracles are finally recognized as being in every moment of our existence. I only saw them on psychedelics originally, then I began to 'seek,' and then to 'find' them more frequently. Over the years, and decades, it began to dawn that my entire life of awareness is life in a Living Presence which does connect things together - like the neuronal connections of a brain, only it is space-time itself which is connected thusly, and we are all a part of its fabric. The fabric - the space-time continuum - creation - is created in each moment by the Creator. Our failure to see it is our failure: our attachment to the physical plane, our sinful refusal to Be Godly, not GOD's fault for not providing each human with a special Revelation. Your cousin received grace. Peace be with you both.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Anonymous
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Well said as always. Thanks for the invitation to the celebratory event. I would have loved to be there. I am glad to see you posting. Your absence make this forum a poorer place to be. No one has come close to replacing your words.
zerohero: You should post more in here if you have time. I think your insight and opinions would be nice.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: chodamunky]
#2217115 - 01/03/04 05:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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In light of what you said about the event that took place, I am going to equate it with this very moment. Are you telling me these words I just typed in this very sentence could not have been replaced by any words? that I had no choice in replying to your what you have said? that I was bound to respond to you and say exactly what I'm saying now? I'm reading a book on philosophy right now and I just finished the Free Will chapter..
Ahh yes, Free Will is oft on my mind of late as well
Daba answered your question, in much the way I would. It's not that you had no choice in the matter, only that once the moment was reached and breeched...there is no other Way of occurence
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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chodamunky
Cheers!
Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: trendal]
#2217230 - 01/03/04 06:45 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's not that you had no choice in the matter, only that once the moment was reached and breeched...there is no other Way of occurence
that sounds rather contradictory, if had a choice in the matter, that means the outcome of my sentence could have been something else. Can you explain what you mean by "reached and breeched" and provide a logical argument to support it? When I wrote that sentence I erased what I typed several times, there were many choices I made of which words I finally decided to use, was all this just an illusion?
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Frog
Warrior
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: silversoul7]
#2217654 - 01/04/04 12:42 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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God is who the bible says He is, and you have to accept Him on faith, or not at all.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: chodamunky]
#2218050 - 01/04/04 06:37 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
chodamunky said:
When I wrote that sentence I erased what I typed several times, there were many choices I made of which words I finally decided to use, was all this just an illusion?
It doesn't matter how many choices you have or how many times you hit backspace and changed what you wrote. You may have a choice as to what actions you take and what thoughts you make, but that isn't what this is about. Whatever choices you make, they were going to happen as such. Every moment and movement that has ever occured before it inevitably lead up to the choice you made.
You may have considered what to do, what words to choose, even changing them, but it all was going to happen. We still have free will, I just decided to take my left elbow and swing it out just to see if I still could, but it was going to happen anyways because of what happened before it. 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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 Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: ]
#2218597 - 01/04/04 02:30 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you.
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HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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The reason I was afraid to look out the window was because of how different the lights looked from normal car lights, or the moons light. It was almost as bright in the room as the lights off, and an important detail to add: The blinds were shut.
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ChiefThunderbong
Inhale to theChief
Registered: 10/18/02
Posts: 3,647
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Don't you think the allmighty god who created and governs all of life on earth has better things to do besides shine a light in your window and call you on your cell?
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Yeah spinnin' around again
yea caught in a tailspin
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Quote:
ChiefThunderbong said:
Don't you think the allmighty god who created and governs all of life on earth has better things to do besides shine a light in your window and call you on your cell?
God is .
Surely, love and compassion are meaningful things, and not a waste of time.
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chodamunky
Cheers!
Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
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Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: fireworks_god]
#2219198 - 01/04/04 08:44 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
chodamunky said:
When I wrote that sentence I erased what I typed several times, there were many choices I made of which words I finally decided to use, was all this just an illusion?
It doesn't matter how many choices you have or how many times you hit backspace and changed what you wrote. You may have a choice as to what actions you take and what thoughts you make, but that isn't what this is about. Whatever choices you make, they were going to happen as such. Every moment and movement that has ever occured before it inevitably lead up to the choice you made.
You may have considered what to do, what words to choose, even changing them, but it all was going to happen. We still have free will, I just decided to take my left elbow and swing it out just to see if I still could, but it was going to happen anyways because of what happened before it.
Peace.
What happened before you swung out your elbow?
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Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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so a coincidence is enough to convert people these days? What's the world coming to. Back in my day it took a lot of beating.
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HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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 Re: From athiest to christian... [Re: Mixomatosis]
#2220028 - 01/05/04 07:02 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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This was definately not just a coincidence... And, God can be in many places at one time. 
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