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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Stonehenge]
#22193505 - 09/05/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >with the natives perhaps even actually welcoming us as liberators.
I think they said that about viet nam and Iraq. Last thing we need is more territory with desperately poor people and narcos running most areas.
The CIA said that about Cuba during the Bay of Pigs, which is why JFK didn't send in air support.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22193621 - 09/05/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, give jfk an excuse for his incompetence. "he thought" fact is he promised air support and didn't give what he promised. Even if he had done what he said, it would have been an audacious plan needing perfect execution to pull off. When you fumble the execution at the very beginning you doom yourself to failure. In this case he doomed many people to death or tens of years in a stinking Cuban jail because he was a lying dufus. He deserved what he got, in spades.
His brother got his a few years later. Don't mess with the mob or if you do, you better keep your promises. He fucked over one group too many.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Stonehenge]
#22193706 - 09/05/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >with the natives perhaps even actually welcoming us as liberators.
I think they said that about viet nam and Iraq. Last thing we need is more territory with desperately poor people and narcos running most areas.
i know thats what they said; thats why i said it...and that is also why i added the word "actually". Also, developing Mexico would be a decades long infrastructure project that would (like most infrastructure projects) pay dividends to future generations. As for organized crime, the FBI would do to them what they did to all the mobsters around here. Certainly the U.S. military isn't afraid of some cartel fighters.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22193714 - 09/05/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I just caught this juicy piece lmao. Apparently it's from back in July, but Donald Trump said we should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/12/we_should_have_invaded_mexico_donald_trump_bashes_iraq_war_suggests_a_different_one_report/
This man is a fucking asshole. I have no respect for anyone who supports this dribbling fucking moron.
Surely you can make sense of that? 80,000 dead. Establish law and order in a troubled place... pretty standard American policy. You don't want to stop the flow of drugs?
I see Trump's real role is to provide false hope to numpties that think they can save western civilization with a vote. Not going to happen, Islam is going to win. Western Civilization is not worth saving, unfortunately over the next millennia humankind does it all over again, this time it's arab civilization.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
#22193745 - 09/05/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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>developing Mexico would be a decades long infrastructure project that would (like most infrastructure projects) pay dividends to future generations
We still have to fix our infrastructure, crumbling roads, bridges, etc. Obumble has dropped the ball on that big time. Now you want us to fix mexico first which is in even worse shape?
> As for organized crime, the FBI would do to them what they did to all the mobsters around here
The mob here buys politicians and protection. Govt IS organized crime.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,304
Last seen: 28 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
#22193782 - 09/05/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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... I don't even know what the fuck you just said.
You think that Muslims are going to take over the world, is that it?
I think that a century from now Atheists will rule the day.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Stonehenge]
#22193785 - 09/05/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >developing Mexico would be a decades long infrastructure project that would (like most infrastructure projects) pay dividends to future generations
We still have to fix our infrastructure, crumbling roads, bridges, etc. Obumble has dropped the ball on that big time. Now you want us to fix mexico first which is in even worse shape?
> As for organized crime, the FBI would do to them what they did to all the mobsters around here
The mob here buys politicians and protection. Govt IS organized crime.
No, i'm saying we need to fix Mexico concurrently with our own crumbling infrastructure.
I know you aren't comparing the U.S. gov't to Mexican drug cartels. If there are similarities, i can assure you that there is a difference of degree at the least
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22193806 - 09/05/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: ... I don't even know what the fuck you just said.
You think that Muslims are going to take over the world, is that it?
I think that a century from now Atheists will rule the day.
unlikely.
If that were to happen though, have no doubt that human nature would prevail, and worldwide rejection of religion would not result in world peace or anything like that.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: ballsalsa]
#22193816 - 09/05/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It'd most likely just make people hate eachother more with a worldwide rejection of anything spiritual...
But I'm pretty sure he means Islamic culture, instead of western culture. But y'know the actual culture and not some bull shit radicals that make every muslim look bad.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: ballsalsa]
#22193901 - 09/05/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: ... I don't even know what the fuck you just said.
You think that Muslims are going to take over the world, is that it?
I think that a century from now Atheists will rule the day.
unlikely.
If that were to happen though, have no doubt that human nature would prevail, and worldwide rejection of religion would not result in world peace or anything like that.
I find religion to be the most divisive tool to rouse the more primitive side of human nature and rally it against perceived 'evils'.
I have nothing against spirituality, and I think psychedelics are a great route for people who wish to investigate their spirituality. I think a society that embraced 'spirituality', rather than religious dogma would be much less inclined toward violence and hateful attitudes.
I don't think that war is a necessary consequence of humanity, honestly. I don't believe that war is human nature. Almost all wars have some religious basis for them. This includes America's war on communism and leftist politics.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22193920 - 09/05/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Jebus is the answer. Bow 3 times each day to the north west and chant ommmmm.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22193938 - 09/05/15 06:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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you are confusing war in the 20th century with the rest of history. Most Wars (until the advent of the U.N.) have been fought for territory. Plain and simple. Humans are territorial. Whether the divisions are religious, or based on ethnicity, or any other metric really, is immaterial. Sometimes its Christians heading off to conquer the "Holy Land". Sometimes it's Persians stopping by to punish Athens for inciting and supporting insurgants in Persian territory. Sometimes it's Byzantines sailing over to retake Italy from Germans. Sometimes its Carthaginians conquering Spain so they can mine the silver and use Cartagena as a trading port. It isn't the religion that is the impetus for these sorts of invasions (the historically common kind) it is desire for territory.
edit:Even the Isrealites genociding everyone the fuck out of the Promised Land in the Bible was primarily motivated by a desire for territory. (even if they said god told them to do it)
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Edited by ballsalsa (09/05/15 06:32 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs




Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: ballsalsa]
#22193980 - 09/05/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: you are confusing war in the 20th century with the rest of history. Most Wars (until the advent of the U.N.) have been fought for territory. Plain and simple. Humans are territorial. Whether the divisions are religious, or based on ethnicity, or any other metric really, is immaterial. Sometimes its Christians heading off to conquer the "Holy Land". Sometimes it's Persians stopping by to punish Athens for inciting and supporting insurgants in Persian territory. Sometimes it's Byzantines sailing over to retake Italy from Germans. Sometimes its Carthaginians conquering Spain so they can mine the silver and use Cartagena as a trading port. It isn't the religion that is the impetus for these sorts of invasions (the historically common kind) it is desire for territory.
edit:Even the Isrealites genociding everyone the fuck out of the Promised Land in the Bible was primarily motivated by a desire for territory. (even if they said god told them to do it)
Yes, but generally speaking the world has dividing lines that aren't likely to be rearranged much anymore. Also, the people of those times were generally roused via religion, whether it was in service of a god-king, or the high priest. Religion is the means by which support is conjured.
Even today in America, Patriotism was intertwined with religion to force people to blindly support anything and everything the government does. "Support the troops or GIT OUT!'. The religious wing of our political spectrum is far more pro-war for this reason.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22194020 - 09/05/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: Yes, but generally speaking the world has dividing lines that aren't likely to be rearranged much anymore. Also, the people of those times were generally roused via religion, whether it was in service of a god-king, or the high priest. Religion is the means by which support is conjured.
The only thing holding back change is the U.N. (the permanent security council members really) and as soon as one of them decides to backstab the others,(think Ukraine) The whole facade begins to crumble. You can see it right now. Borders are being redrawn in the modern age.
Religion is a means by which support is conjured. But since we know that the guys calling the shots are motivated by wealth(land, resources, etc.), we can also feel pretty safe in assuming another means of acquiring support can and will be used (or developed).
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: ballsalsa]
#22194217 - 09/05/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Yes, but generally speaking the world has dividing lines that aren't likely to be rearranged much anymore. Also, the people of those times were generally roused via religion, whether it was in service of a god-king, or the high priest. Religion is the means by which support is conjured.
The only thing holding back change is the U.N. (the permanent security council members really) and as soon as one of them decides to backstab the others,(think Ukraine) The whole facade begins to crumble. You can see it right now. Borders are being redrawn in the modern age.
Religion is a means by which support is conjured. But since we know that the guys calling the shots are motivated by wealth(land, resources, etc.), we can also feel pretty safe in assuming another means of acquiring support can and will be used (or developed).
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Religion is the only force I know of capable of appealing to people's irrationality on the scale that it does. I also believe that as technology increases, people will be less inclined towards war, because it will become increasingly dangerous.
People don't realize it, but the ones who truly have the power, and always have had the power, are common citizens, if they choose to use it. When citizens flex their muscle, things change. That's why we didn't go into Syria. There was no support from citizens.
Also, today wealth has little to do with lines on a map. Globalization has changed the game.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,812
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22195706 - 09/06/15 04:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
People don't realize it, but the ones who truly have the power, and always have had the power, are common citizens, if they choose to use it. When citizens flex their muscle, things change. That's why we didn't go into Syria. There was no support from citizens.
you have hit the nail on the head, no doubt. The common man on the street ultimately has the final say. But, as Jefferson noted in the Declaration:
Quote:
. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
When he said "all experience hath shewn", he wasn't exaggerating. As far as i can tell, people generally do as they are told (with a few notable exceptions)
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: ballsalsa]
#22195816 - 09/06/15 05:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
People don't realize it, but the ones who truly have the power, and always have had the power, are common citizens, if they choose to use it. When citizens flex their muscle, things change. That's why we didn't go into Syria. There was no support from citizens.
you have hit the nail on the head, no doubt. The common man on the street ultimately has the final say. But, as Jefferson noted in the Declaration:
Quote:
. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
When he said "all experience hath shewn", he wasn't exaggerating. As far as i can tell, people generally do as they are told (with a few notable exceptions)
That's a great observation, and Thomas Jefferson was a very insightful guy. I often wonder what made these people so wise back then, because they really were. I guess they spent a lot more time talking with one another, and at times talk wasn't quite so cheap when you could only send one letter a month etc. Whatever the case, there are some wonderful nuggets of truth scattered throughout history, ripe for the picking. It's amazing how a book like 'The Art of War' is still applicable today.
Anyways, I've always said that people don't give a fuck about politics til it hits their wallet. That's the only time things really shake up, despite all of the hindsight at our disposal to prevent catastrophic occurrences before they come to a head. We can clearly see that the people won some great political victories after the great depression (which have eroded away over time). This presidential election, for better or worse, will surely usher in a new era of sorts. It is already doing just that. Status-quo career politicians are taking a back seat this round.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (09/06/15 06:01 AM)
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Achillita]
#22203306 - 09/07/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: It'd most likely just make people hate eachother more with a worldwide rejection of anything spiritual...
But I'm pretty sure he means Islamic culture, instead of western culture. But y'know the actual culture and not some bull shit radicals that make every muslim look bad.
The issue is not culture vs radicals, the issue is Islamic States enforce Sharia law, that is mainstream Islam. Never mind, I can be Muslim if they let me. Meanwhile I'll listen to as much music as I can.
Atheists are good at making rational statements. Muslims simply chop atheists heads off, like the Christians used to do.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
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Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#22203348 - 09/07/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
People don't realize it, but the ones who truly have the power, and always have had the power, are common citizens, if they choose to use it. When citizens flex their muscle, things change. That's why we didn't go into Syria. There was no support from citizens.
you have hit the nail on the head, no doubt. The common man on the street ultimately has the final say. But, as Jefferson noted in the Declaration:
Quote:
. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
When he said "all experience hath shewn", he wasn't exaggerating. As far as i can tell, people generally do as they are told (with a few notable exceptions)
That's a great observation, and Thomas Jefferson was a very insightful guy. I often wonder what made these people so wise back then, because they really were. I guess they spent a lot more time talking with one another, and at times talk wasn't quite so cheap when you could only send one letter a month etc. Whatever the case, there are some wonderful nuggets of truth scattered throughout history, ripe for the picking. It's amazing how a book like 'The Art of War' is still applicable today.
Anyways, I've always said that people don't give a fuck about politics til it hits their wallet. That's the only time things really shake up, despite all of the hindsight at our disposal to prevent catastrophic occurrences before they come to a head. We can clearly see that the people won some great political victories after the great depression (which have eroded away over time). This presidential election, for better or worse, will surely usher in a new era of sorts. It is already doing just that. Status-quo career politicians are taking a back seat this round.
Technology/civilization makes people stupid and weak, the further it progresses the more stupid and weak humanity becomes.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: Trump - "We should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq" [Re: usulpsychonaut]
#22216414 - 09/10/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Donald Trump is going to win isn't he?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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