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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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ID on some LBM's (Colorado)
    #22189655 - 09/04/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Habitat:grassy area/lawn

Gills: light brown becoming dark brown with age

Stem: hollow brown/white stem, 2.5 inches on the larger samples


Cap: convex to conical becoming flat with age,  Brown, some with dark brown centers and a light brown band, turning a light brown to tan color, most ranging from 1 inch across and below

Spore print color: in progress


Bruising: none noticed


Other information: has a very "mushroomy" smell, the stems were holding on tight to the mycellium in the ground making it difficult to properly remove the base of the stem from the soil, often bringing up small bits of mycellium with it.







-E. Borodin


Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (09/04/15 07:12 PM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22189684 - 09/04/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

(I use standard line paper to help gauge size)

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22190875 - 09/04/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



I put down 3 fresh caps and only one just barely began to leave a print, which sucks, in person it looks black, but it's not a quality print, and these are also different from the cataphores  I generally find in the particular area where these came from.

I'm going to harvest some fresh samples in the morning and see if I could get a decent spore print...

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22192786 - 09/05/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)





These came from about the same area.

I'm still learning my LBMs, and I'm still new to wild fungi identification, but it's a great hobby, I get to spend time out doors and I get to study at the same time, every walk outside turns into a scientific expedition, I'm not so much concerned with actives as I am with learning my local and native fungi, though pan. Cinct hunting can be fun, even if you end up with pan. Foes.

At first I thought they were a panaleous or panaolina species, or maybe even Marasmius oreades that were not growing in a ring, but without a microscope and limited resources I can only do so much, the fungi pictured in the initial post is common, the ones in this post may be the same fungi, but they are big...It's all these little ID tricks that I need to learn now, though I'm learning every day.

(Though I NEVER eat wild fungi, even if I'm 100% on the ID, this is education and entertainment, the knowledge is the reward.)

-E. Borodin


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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22193168 - 09/05/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

First pictures resemble Psathyrella or Lacrymaria, whichever you want to call, Lacrymaria is the correct genus.  Dunno exact species, and someone may think its different genus, but black print makes me think the same as the pictures...
Second one look like some Panaeolus, what ere they growing from? Looks like a grassland sp and not from the dung, couldn't say if they're edible though sorry.

I agree with you though, mushroom identification is a better hobby than most give it credit!
AND there is always something more to learn :thumbup:

I am still a nub, spent so much time hunting for actives back n the day only to realize I was missing out on so much more and never found actives other than ovoids that had been established by someone I knew :mypleasure:....

But I still think you should start trying to cook some edibles up... It's an acquired taste for me, but I'm glad I did it:thumbup:

See ya
:seeya:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: confuzzed]
    #22193554 - 09/05/15 04:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

confuzzed said:
First pictures resemble Psathyrella or Lacrymaria, whichever you want to call, Lacrymaria is the correct genus.  Dunno exact species, and someone may think its different genus, but black print makes me think the same as the pictures...
Second one look like some Panaeolus, what ere they growing from? Looks like a grassland sp and not from the dung, couldn't say if they're edible though sorry.

I agree with you though, mushroom identification is a better hobby than most give it credit!
AND there is always something more to learn :thumbup:

I am still a nub, spent so much time hunting for actives back n the day only to realize I was missing out on so much more and never found actives other than ovoids that had been established by someone I knew :mypleasure:....

But I still think you should start trying to cook some edibles up... It's an acquired taste for me, but I'm glad I did it:thumbup:

See ya
:seeya:




Yeah, the initial post DiD remind me of some Psathyrella candolleana I found growing in the same area.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22116938/page/1
These are comming from that area as well, but I never did get a complete ID here either, I spend a lot of time going through mushroom field guides for my state, and have learned a lot that way, and I have been able to ID all the common fungi in my area, but when it comes to the LBMs I have trouble.

I did not even know active panaleous grew in Colorado until last year, and I only started looking when I found these near my home last year, though the ones in the picture are from a few weeks ago, these are either pan. Foe or pan cinct, and the black spore print made me think they are pan cinct, but no conformation here either.





Dried samples saved for study and reference

The spore print looked black to me, I even moved a cap early to be sure it was not layers of brown, sure enough they were gray/black

The initial ID on these was Pan foe. But I keep getting black spore peints...

As for edible mushrooms, I'm not so sure, wild fungi can have mold, bacteria and bugs in it, and a mistake on ID can leave you sick or dead. Even if I find potential actives I don't eat them, I may save them as samples, but if I'm going to consume fungi I want it to have been grown in sterile conditions, where there's never any question on the ID.

...maybe if someone had some good liberty caps or I always wanted to try psilocybe weilii, maybe then I would eat wild fungi, but any of my mushroom hunting is just for entertainment and  education .

I've been dealing with cultivated mushrooms forever, and I used to love National Audubon Society mushroom guides, but I've basically ignored wild fungi until recently. I know a lot more than my inexperience would lead people to believe, but knowing a few facts from a book with a small picture doesn't help much in actual mushroom hunting, those little pictures can be misleading, and the descriptive writings can fit several similar species, nothing beats actually holding and examining several samples in real life. 

I've been in study of active mushrooms forever, I know the psilocybes, where they grow, what they look like, a little history, etc..but since there are no psilocybes in colorado i never looked, I knew of some active gymnopilus being in this state,but they are hard to ID with toxic look alikes, and I knew of an active conocybe, but its rare, but never paid attention to pan. Cinct as even being an option until recently...and it was my interest in the actives that lead to my interest in non-actives, I took a college botany coarse, so I learned spore prints and about mycellium and fungi life cycle fairly early on, but again, i never really had interest until recently.

Though LBMs are difficult, very very similar looking species growing in the same enviroment, many with distinguishing features  that are very minor from one another.

Any way, once I get these few species correctly ID'd I can start doing the real research, with in a few years I'll be an expert with the local wild fungi.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22193566 - 09/05/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, about the "big" mushrooms I posted, they came from about the same place as my suspect pan. Cinct, it's a lawn area, but the sod was just put in last year when they built a new wall around the housing community and it's very well taken care of grass...

-E. Borodin


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Offlineconfuzzed
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22194236 - 09/05/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea those last pictures remind me of foes.
I have some pictures somewhere if you would like me to post them for comparison.

I must have eaten a pound of wet foes trying to see if there was any activity, but no go for me :frown:
They grew in my yard and soccer field like clockwork...

I bet there's actives in Colorado waiting to be found and documented.
I know some adventurous heads that have tripped off something my professors in college couldn't identify and still don't resemble anything I've seen today... They were braver than I !!!

At least these dodos had a goodi time with no ill effects, now they're all married with children :lol:
The things they don't tell their wives:rofl:

I understand the caution with wild consumption, took me awhile to get to the point I am now, which is comfortable eating most choice wild edibles.... I've also had people try to feed me shit that wasn't what they said :shakefist:

Oh well.  I'm 80% on those being pan foes in the last pics.
Keep on huntin :thumbup:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: confuzzed]
    #22194707 - 09/05/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

confuzzed said:
Yea those last pictures remind me of foes.
I have some pictures somewhere if you would like me to post them for comparison.

I must have eaten a pound of wet foes trying to see if there was any activity, but no go for me :frown:
They grew in my yard and soccer field like clockwork...

I bet there's actives in Colorado waiting to be found and documented.
I know some adventurous heads that have tripped off something my professors in college couldn't identify and still don't resemble anything I've seen today... They were braver than I !!!

At least these dodos had a goodi time with no ill effects, now they're all married with children :lol:
The things they don't tell their wives:rofl:

I understand the caution with wild consumption, took me awhile to get to the point I am now, which is comfortable eating most choice wild edibles.... I've also had people try to feed me shit that wasn't what they said :shakefist:

Oh well.  I'm 80% on those being pan foes in the last pics.
Keep on huntin :thumbup:




I've never seen foes with a black spore print.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22105665/page/1
In this thread "randallsbook" posted a picture that looked identical to what I had...

They may even be an inactive panaeolus, but I don't think they are Panaeolina, the picture is lousy, it's a tablet cam and I can't zoom and the camera is facing the user, so I can't see when I'm snapping these pics, and the color sucks, I ask everybody in person "what color is this" and they all say black.

I am fairly sure they are panaleous of some sort.

Panaeolina foe and panaleous cinctulus I near identical until the spore print...

I guess it really doesn't matter either way, I don't plan on consuming them, so activity is just a novelty here, though I am interested in looking into.what's mentioned here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22115838

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22194714 - 09/05/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I would never eat an unidentified fungi.

-E. Borodin


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Offlineconfuzzed
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22204901 - 09/07/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I would never eat an unidentified fungi.

-E. Borodin




Totally agree with you there!
People get way to anxious for the trip:shrug:

Those are some good links, thanks for the reads.
And yea it's hard to tell the difference between foes and cincts without microscopy.

The ones in my yard had black prints as well, maybe they were a hybrid of some sort because of anastomoses :shrug:

I will have to read up on that as I've never heard of it before.
Generally I have read that cincts stems are somewhat bulkier, although I know this can change with a change in substrate, as well as conditions, so who knows.

I think umma have to get a microscope!!!
Maybe I can hit a scratch off to pay for that :lol:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: confuzzed]
    #22206027 - 09/08/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

confuzzed said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
I would never eat an unidentified fungi.

-E. Borodin




Totally agree with you there!
People get way to anxious for the trip:shrug:

Those are some good links, thanks for the reads.
And yea it's hard to tell the difference between foes and cincts without microscopy.

The ones in my yard had black prints as well, maybe they were a hybrid of some sort because of anastomoses :shrug:

I will have to read up on that as I've never heard of it before.
Generally I have read that cincts stems are somewhat bulkier, although I know this can change with a change in substrate, as well as conditions, so who knows.

I think umma have to get a microscope!!!
Maybe I can hit a scratch off to pay for that :lol:




I've actually recently heard of a good deal of people claiming to have foes with black prints, though I don't know how reliable these claims are, but since Panaeolina and panaeolus only differ in spore color there may be strange phenotypes or hybrids about...

Yeah I need a quality microscope.

I really want a sample of some cincts and foes for hobby comparative research, but have yet to have anything with a positive ID.

I actually generally never eat wild fungi, fear of misidentification, bacteria, molds and insects living in the mushrooms has kept me from eating anything I have ever found (except as a teen in Florida, I would often eat stropharia cubensis from known fields shown to me by the locals when I moved there...they say the farmers put something in the cows food that prevents mushrooms, and you have to know which farmers don't do this to find a good field...by the way, is that true? What is the fungicide used?)

I'm not mycophobic I love fungi, but I'm a resistant mycophagist, unless the fungi was cultivated, insuring a clean fungi that's here's no question in identity, I can't bring myself to eat it.

Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick, then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it, meaning you ingest a deadly fungi, your basically fucked.

I know very few are deadly, and most toxins in fungi result in sickness that passes, but still...

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22206739 - 09/08/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick, then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it, meaning you ingest a deadly fungi, your basically fucked.


-E. Borodin




not an extremely accurate statement, BTW.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: relic]
    #22210735 - 09/09/15 04:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick, then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it, meaning you ingest a deadly fungi, your basically fucked.


-E. Borodin






not an extremely accurate statement, BTW.




Please elaborate.

It should take at least 3 days for the toxins to attack your liver...then your kidneys, then your other organs.

Symptoms of mushroom poisoning may vary from gastric upset to life-threatening organ failure resulting in death. Serious symptoms do not always occur immediately after eating, often not until the toxin attacks the kidney or liver, sometimes days or weeks later.-wikipedia

Have you heard of it attacking a liver or kidneys prior to the third day?


-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22210744 - 09/09/15 04:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

This is why I think people who eat wild fungi are insane, I mean I know there are not that many deadly species, but just knowing that's a possibility is enough to keep me from even taking the risk...

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22211017 - 09/09/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick, then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it, meaning you ingest a deadly fungi, your basically fucked.


-E. Borodin






not an extremely accurate statement, BTW.




Please elaborate.

It should take at least 3 days for the toxins to attack your liver...then your kidneys, then your other organs.

Symptoms of mushroom poisoning may vary from gastric upset to life-threatening organ failure resulting in death. Serious symptoms do not always occur immediately after eating, often not until the toxin attacks the kidney or liver, sometimes days or weeks later.-wikipedia

Have you heard of it attacking a liver or kidneys prior to the third day?


-E. Borodin




"Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick":  most often there are acute symptoms that show up in the first 24 hours.  sometimes they resolve somewhat prior to onset of hepatic and renal failure.

"then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it":  somewhat true although by that point you're being managed in a clinical setting so it is not physically painful but i'm sure it's mentally painful.  horrible? yes.  there are now treatments for various toxins such that poisoning deaths are more and more rare.  however; we have no antidote for some toxins and supportive care is the treatment regimen, but it can still be quite successful in people not too old, young, or with preexisting, complicating conditions.

like i said, not extremely accurate...not entirely incorrect and false, just inaccurate.

there are a few here that are much, much more versed in fungal toxins than i am who can elaborate more if they see this and are inclined.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22211024 - 09/09/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
This is why I think people who eat wild fungi are insane, I mean I know there are not that many deadly species, but just knowing that's a possibility is enough to keep me from even taking the risk...

-E. Borodin




i'm more concerned about contracting a tick born disease or getting struck by lightning during a thunderstorm while mushroom hunting than eating a deadly mushroom.


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OfflineUntitled
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22211065 - 09/09/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
This is why I think people who eat wild fungi are insane, I mean I know there are not that many deadly species, but just knowing that's a possibility is enough to keep me from even taking the risk...

-E. Borodin



If you are properly educated then you are not taking a risk. The fact that we are not educated on this topic when we grow up doesn't mean it's risky. You would have no trouble identifying a blackberry. It's the same thing. The only risk is in eating unidentified mushrooms, or incorrectly identified ones. Driving a car is much more risky, with equally deadly outcomes. And most people agree that that is just fine.


Edited by Untitled (09/09/15 10:30 AM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: relic]
    #22211449 - 09/09/15 09:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:

Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick, then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it, meaning you ingest a deadly fungi, your basically fucked.


-E. Borodin






not an extremely accurate statement, BTW.




Please elaborate.

It should take at least 3 days for the toxins to attack your liver...then your kidneys, then your other organs.

Symptoms of mushroom poisoning may vary from gastric upset to life-threatening organ failure resulting in death. Serious symptoms do not always occur immediately after eating, often not until the toxin attacks the kidney or liver, sometimes days or weeks later.-wikipedia

Have you heard of it attacking a liver or kidneys prior to the third day?


-E. Borodin




"Did you know the deadly mushrooms take 3 days before you start feeling sick":  most often there are acute symptoms that show up in the first 24 hours.  sometimes they resolve somewhat prior to onset of hepatic and renal failure.

"then your organs one by one begin to shut down, it's a slow horrible painful death, and there's nothing they can do to stop it":  somewhat true although by that point you're being managed in a clinical setting so it is not physically painful but i'm sure it's mentally painful.  horrible? yes.  there are now treatments for various toxins such that poisoning deaths are more and more rare.  however; we have no antidote for some toxins and supportive care is the treatment regimen, but it can still be quite successful in people not too old, young, or with preexisting, complicating conditions.

like i said, not extremely accurate...not entirely incorrect and false, just inaccurate.

there are a few here that are much, much more versed in fungal toxins than i am who can elaborate more if they see this and are inclined.




Thank you for the clarification.

if I'm ever inaccurate I appreciate when others correct me, I don't want to be going around saying something that is incorrect,  I would look like a fool. This is why I don't understand why people get angry when others correct them.

Again, thanks for clarifying.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: ID on some LBM's (Colorado) [Re: relic]
    #22211570 - 09/09/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
This is why I think people who eat wild fungi are insane, I mean I know there are not that many deadly species, but just knowing that's a possibility is enough to keep me from even taking the risk...

-E. Borodin




i'm more concerned about contracting a tick born disease or getting struck by lightning during a thunderstorm while mushroom hunting than eating a deadly mushroom.




Which is true, it's an irrational concern, but at the same time I don't trust myself to be 100% accurate, and even experts have made mistakes.

I know it's rare, but still, I have never been able to bring myself to eat fungi that came from the wild and was harvested by a person who may or may not know what they are doing...

AnD like I said before
Quote:

actually generally never eat wild fungi, fear of misidentification, bacteria, molds and insects living in the mushrooms has kept me from eating anything I have ever found (except as a teen in Florida, I would often eat stropharia cubensis from known fields shown to me by the locals when I moved there...they say the farmers put something in the cows food that prevents mushrooms, and you have to know which farmers don't do this to find a good field...by the way, is that true? What is the fungicide used?)



So in a case like the one mentioned above, I would eat field fungi, but those are RARE situations. I no longer live in a state where the most well known psilocin mushroom grows nearly year round, the only actives where I live are LBMs with many look alikes, so not trusting others (or even myself fully) with being able to ID the local actives, I just don't eat any of them, ever.(and Though I do hunt, collect, and attempt to identify fungi as a hobby and for entertainment, I've never eaten a single find.

...besides, I think it may not be a bad idea to discourage novice mushroom hunters from eating their unidentified samples by exaggerating the "horror" of a deadly mushroom ingestion.

-E. Borodin


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