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OfflineThisisntme
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First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips?
    #22183806 - 09/03/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hello all,
  Just want to start out with saying how thankful I am for all the information that is made available from everyone on here! I have spent the past three years doing research on and off on the cultivation of mushrooms and feel that now is the most optimal time for me to attempt such an exciting adventure. And although I have spent countless hours searching for information, I am still a little lost and would like some final confirmations on whether what is being done is suitable.
 
  To get started I will explain the setup I have going on This is the main layout for bulk sub/rye

light is 6500K and will be about 13-14" above bulk sub

This is where perlite will go. One of these sections is on both sides of intended spot for bulk sub/rye grain

This is outside of it. Drawers close over zipper tarp.



This will be my incubator for quart jars with rye, colonizer for bulk sub (h poo/coir/coffee grounds/worm castings), and fruiting chamber. A black trash bag will line the bottom when ready to spawn. As for the casing, I was considering using this tek http://www.shroomery.org/55/60-40-Vermiculite-and-Coco-Coir-Casing-Tek

So, my incubator/colonizer/fruiting chamber is 16.8 in (L) x 30.5 in (W) x 18.5 in (H). I have one 1" hole drilled at 3.75" in the back covered by tape. The plan is to use 3.5" of sub/spawn. The temp ranges from 73-78°F and the RH is at about a constant 40%. In order to compensate and increase humidity I just wanted to have two sections of perlite, divided on both sides of the spawn when it comes time to initiate fruiting. These sections are 12 in (L) x 6.5 in (W) x 6 in (H).

Now to get to my questions (I know how repetitive this may feel for those of you who are constantly enlightening us with very helpful information):

1) Is the hole placement good? Exactly how high should I place the one needed directly above the hole I already have? Should there be more for my case?

2) Is the perlite option a good idea? If so, is the miracle grow perlite acceptable to use? Should holes be drilled in panels separating bulk spawn and perlite to be covered with micro pore tape in order to ensure good humidity?

3) Is the casing tek above being considered a good tek? If so, can you replace calcium carbonate in this tek with hydrated horticultural lime?

4) Is 3.5" of bulk spawn/grain mixture good to use? To evenly spread out after jars are inoculated, is it best to do layer on top over another layer until full, or to mix throughout evenly?

And lastly...

5) What ratios should be used for bulk sub h poo/coir/coffee grounds/worm castings in my particular case? (16.8 in (L) x 30.5 in (W) x 18.5 in (H) at 3.5" high for bulk sub) Should hydrated lime be added to bulk sub?

I know for the last one it would be difficult to give me an exact answer, but what would be some estimates?

Again, I greatly appreciate the massive amounts of help and guidance this website and it's users have given me over these past few years. I am very much looking forward to any answers and help. Have fun guys!


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OfflineiSmkGrnBud
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22183867 - 09/03/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

1) Well for starters I really dont see any holes in these pictures, so its hard to tell. Depending on what kind of fruiting chamber you have will determine where and how you want to place your holes. But honestly I cant tell whats what in these pics. :shrug:

2) In a  fruiting chamber, perlite is like the only good option. Miracle gro perlite is fine. Yes you never want any of your sub/spawn to touch perlite. Your designs still have me a bit confused though, maybe I just cant envision what youre describing. Are you going to introduce the perlite after colonization? During colonization would be detrimental.

3) That casing tek is fine.

4) 3.5'' is ideal. Anywhere from 3-5 should be ok. You want to layer as you add spawn. But then thoroughly mix it, very well. Get it as evenly mixed as you can.

5) A very easy ratio for sub to spawn is 2:1. Tweaking ratios can cause quite a big difference between grows. Ratios are ratios, no matter the size, they should stay the same ratio unless youre working with like a foot of sub.


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
    #22183899 - 09/03/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I will post better and clearer pictures when I get home just to see if there is anything else you can tell me I should change, but the one inch hole is covered right now by tape. It is in the first picture. The fruiting chamber is essentially the whole piece of furniture. In the first picture, the ground and to the sides (which are covered by the blue tarp on the left and right) is where I will mix my spawn and sub. Thank you for your help!


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OfflineiSmkGrnBud
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22183938 - 09/03/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thisisntme said:
I will post better and clearer pictures when I get home just to see if there is anything else you can tell me I should change, but the one inch hole is covered right now by tape. It is in the first picture. The fruiting chamber is essentially the whole piece of furniture. In the first picture, the ground and to the sides (which are covered by the blue tarp on the left and right) is where I will mix my spawn and sub. Thank you for your help!




I see it all now. :vaped:

I mean it seems feasible. I would think about hole replacement, that one hole will not be enough. You'll want a combination of holes high and low for FAE during fruiting. To me it seems like a good grasp on a self sustained green house, built into furniture. But as far as cultivation is concerned, I would suggest just making a monotub. Too many years have been spent on this hobby to come back to the same answers. Monotubs and SGFC are the only real winners.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
    #22184127 - 09/03/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineiSmkGrnBud
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22184153 - 09/03/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Here's another compiled list of tek's from Frank
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163

I cant find TL's tek links, but those are great write ups too!

Spend some time reading them ALL, you'll get an idea of what will best suit you.


--------------------
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:mushroomgrow: iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds :mushroomgrow:
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“The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22184712 - 09/03/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My intent with this was to make it just like a mono tub. Do you think I will get similar results?


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22184747 - 09/03/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Wouldn't an actual monotub be cheaper and easier?


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22184759 - 09/03/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, but this works out better for me and my situation. I will go more in depth with my overall plan when I get home step by step.


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22184786 - 09/03/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Wouldn't an actual monotub be cheaper and easier?



Quote:

Thisisntme said:
Yeah, but this works out better for me and my situation.




How can it possibly work out "better" if it's neither cheaper, nor easier?  The likelihood of it performing better is pretty slim.

We see this kind of thing dozens of times every week, all year long, every year.  People want to use some weird chamber for some reason, maybe it was laying around, and for usually a multitude of reasons, shit always ends up being mediocre or worse, and the people either quit or end up just making a 5$ monotub.

You can go ahead and do what you want to do, but, when you look back, just remember you had the option to do it right the first time.

:twocents:


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OfflineiSmkGrnBud
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
    #22184791 - 09/03/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Quote:

iSmkGrnBud said: But as far as cultivation is concerned, I would suggest just making a monotub. Too many years have been spent on this hobby to come back to the same answers. Monotubs and SGFC are the only real winners.




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“The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22185601 - 09/03/15 10:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

'this works better for me and my situation'

uh yeah maybe but, uh, how about the mushrooms?

won't somebody please think of the mushrooms?

step by step plan? you titled this thread "first mushroom grow: any tips?" but have a plan?

here are a few tips:

1) copy and paste what links you got linked to into your browser
2) press enter

3) optional best bonus super deluxe with sprinkles tip: make those your plan




& good luck :smile:


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: filthyknees]
    #22185631 - 09/03/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Let's not... undermine his intelligence just yet.  :shrug:  Maybe they have their reasons.  Not to say those reasons should be immune to being torn apart just.. you know.

Of course, this thing happens where everybody I take up for shows me I'm a lousy judge of character.  I hope this isn't that.

Also couldn't he just click the links?

:derail:


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22185657 - 09/03/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

damn I thought I had him entirely figured out

*retracts fangs*


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: filthyknees]
    #22185672 - 09/03/15 10:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I love a good proven idiot.  I'll tear into that all day.  But I think most of us probably were set in our ways for some stubborn reason when we got here.  I don't know why that happens, people want to feel validated for their research I guess.  How quickly they let it go is a measure of character though. :wink:


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22185807 - 09/03/15 11:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Money obviously isn't the issue with me. Thank you again though, greatly appreciate the feedback. But I guess I am just confused as to why the wouldn't act as a mono tub if holes are drilled correctly and humidity and good air exchange are kept up. If it's really going robe that big of a difference, could I just put 6qt mono tubs inside? I would prefer it in there because of lamp and discreetness. I don't want anyone coming over and asking why I have shit in a tub with holes in it.


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: iSmkGrnBud]
    #22185926 - 09/03/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

iSmkGrnBud said:
:whathesaid:

Here's another compiled list of tek's from Frank
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17897163#17897163

I cant find TL's tek links, but those are great write ups too!

Spend some time reading them ALL, you'll get an idea of what will best suit you.





I have read a quite a few of these before and they have helped me a lot, but I still just don't see why those same rules can't be applied to what I have in some fashion?


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22185933 - 09/03/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You're gonna have a thing with holes in it no matter what.  And if you don't have that, you have something with hoses and tubes coming out of it which is even sketchier.

If you have people coming in all the time that you don't want to see you grow then I don't think there's a way that's going to do better than "eh I got something at least".  I guess we'll see what you come up with.


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22186084 - 09/04/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So, to further explain what how I am planning to drill my holes...

*The blue tape represents where holes will be drilled and covered with micropore tape or polyfill (at least the bottom set) so that moisture gets into the bottom of the the sub and directly throughout the surface
*The blue tape WITH GRAY TAPE is where holes will be drilled for FAE
Left Side

Center (hole is big enough to put thumb through and I am thinking of putting a hole directly above that as well

Right Side

Also, which type of hole is better? Circular or rectangular?

And while the bulk sub is colonizing I will have all holes covered and aluminum foil to cover it to keep CO2 (?) in


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22186088 - 09/04/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thisisntme said:
So, to further explain what how I am planning to drill my holes...

*The blue tape represents where holes will be drilled and covered with micropore tape or polyfill (at least the bottom set) so that moisture gets into the bottom of the the sub and directly throughout the surface
*The blue tape WITH GRAY TAPE is where holes will be drilled for FAE
Left Side

Center (hole is big enough to put thumb through and I am thinking of putting a hole directly above that as well

Right Side

Also, which type of hole is better? Circular or rectangular?

And while the bulk sub is colonizing I will have all holes covered and aluminum foil to cover it to keep CO2 (?) in




Holes in middle are 3.75" high and will be .25"-.50" above substrate


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22186173 - 09/04/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22186628 - 09/04/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What type of fruiting chamber are you trying to make here?

A standard monotub setup, whether it's made in a tote or not, uses the substrate as the source of humidity.  So what are you doing with perlite?  In a shotgun fruiting chamber, air is drawn through the perlite to increase the humidity in the FC.  In a monotub setup, it will not be as effective.

Also, don't overcomplicate things with your substrate.  There are plenty of variables involved in getting your grow right, most of which you will not have considered before your boots hit the ground.  Why add properly hydrating and pasturizing some next level concoction of crazy shit to that list of variables?  Most of the best growers on this site use 80/20 coir verm.  Bulk sub mostly provides water.  Use bucket-tek with some coir, and worry about your bulk sub composition when you screwing up is not a variable and you have a baller isolate that will actually tell you if your sub is having an effect.

I would suggest hopping over target, grabbing a $3 15qt sterilite, making a small minimonotub or monotub shotgun hybrid, dialing it in (misting, stuffing, whatever.)  Clone some good fruits or nice clusters.

Square holes vs round holes:  Doesn't matter if you're covering it with tape/sfd/tyvek.  If you're stuffing, round will probably be the easiest to stuff well, though I have only used homemade SFD.


1.  Can't really tell what you're asking.  Your bottom holes should be as close to substrate level as possible.  Your top holes should be as far above as possible.

2.  Can't really say, don't understand your cfg.fc file.

3.  60/40 cv casing is decent.  Not as good as peat/verm.  In a monotub environment, it probably won't matter much.  There is no need to pH balance it.  Calcium Carbonate is a buffer, Calcium Hydroxide is a base.  At appropriate quantities respectively, they can serve the same function and neutralize an acidic substrate.

4.  3.5" is fine.  It seems thinner substrates tend to yield a bit better.  Mix the spawn into the sub.  Layering is for straw.  I suggest mixing it in a large tote or buckets where you can really move it around.  Mixing it in the tray may result in suboptimal distribution.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22187739 - 09/04/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, the idea with the perlite was because I was worried it would dry out being that it is not a proper mono tub. But if it is not necessary to use then I won't. The reason I wanted to add as much as possible to my sub is because I have read that diversity is good for the mycelium.

And what brand of peat moss will work? I have tried searching for the correct brand and I get conflicting answers. I don't live by any special garden stores, mainly home depot, lowes, and ace.


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22189832 - 09/04/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If you're concerned about insufficient sub to work as a mono in your enclosure, just put like a 15-30qt mono in there and flush the air from the larger container like 1x a day.  That or just fill that thing up with plenty of trays to fill the space.  Probably will work better than perlite, though that may work.

The big bales of peat work, but require a good amount of stick removal.  Smaller bags (even with fets) should work fine, or you can use a peat based potting soil with verm.  The best would be jiffy seed starter mix, which is like pH balanced 50/50 peat verm, hydrate, pasteurize, n rock.  BTW I wasn't saying coir verm is a bad casing, it's fine especially in a mono where the humidity will stay high and it won't dry out.

Adjusting your substrate to perfection is probably the last thing you want to focus on.  You can get amazing grows on straight coir with clean spawn, good isolate, and proper FAE.  Often even without those things.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22189839 - 09/04/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Perlite is basically glass.  It's not nutrients.  Don't feed it to mushrooms or put it in your substrate...


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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22192859 - 09/05/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think he's basically talking about having some like  ???adjacent beds of perlite to help boost the humidity cause he's not gonna have enough shit in his giant monotub???

LoL, the CO2 content at sub level would drop and the less dense humid air might float up instead of press down.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22192945 - 09/05/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thisisntme said:
Well, the idea with the perlite was because I was worried it would dry out being that it is not a proper mono tub. But if it is not necessary to use then I won't. The reason I wanted to add as much as possible to my sub is because I have read that diversity is good for the mycelium.



I don't know what else you could get from that.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22192968 - 09/05/15 02:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I addressed both the composition of his sub (castings, coir, shit, verm) as being overly complex for a first grow, as well as the perlite thing.  I took them to be separate responses.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22192978 - 09/05/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, I sure hope so.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Inocuole]
    #22195316 - 09/06/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It was. I was not intending on mixing the perlite in with either the sub or casing. He was right saying I wanted it to be adjacent. I could of been clearer on that, my bad.


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22195320 - 09/06/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
If you're concerned about insufficient sub to work as a mono in your enclosure, just put like a 15-30qt mono in there and flush the air from the larger container like 1x a day.  That or just fill that thing up with plenty of trays to fill the space.  Probably will work better than perlite, though that may work.

The big bales of peat work, but require a good amount of stick removal.  Smaller bags (even with fets) should work fine, or you can use a peat based potting soil with verm.  The best would be jiffy seed starter mix, which is like pH balanced 50/50 peat verm, hydrate, pasteurize, n rock.  BTW I wasn't saying coir verm is a bad casing, it's fine especially in a mono where the humidity will stay high and it won't dry out.

Adjusting your substrate to perfection is probably the last thing you want to focus on.  You can get amazing grows on straight coir with clean spawn, good isolate, and proper FAE.  Often even without those things.




Exactly what I was looking for, thank you!


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OfflineThisisntme
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22195324 - 09/06/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
I addressed both the composition of his sub (castings, coir, shit, verm) as being overly complex for a first grow, as well as the perlite thing.  I took them to be separate responses.




So for my sub, I guess I will just use h poo and coir. Sound good?


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: First Mushroom Grow: Any Tips? [Re: Thisisntme]
    #22195427 - 09/06/15 01:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Haven't used poo yet.  Just CVG, and now straw.  Haven't heard of the poo coir combo being used all that much, but I don't see any problem with it.

Personally I would just buckettek straight coir w gypsum.  That way the hydration is prescribed and the chances of it contaminating due to anything other than bad spawn are nill.

With Poo/Castings you will need to properly hydrate and pasteurize.  Not saying it's rocket science, just one more thing to screw up and/or doubt.

Up to you, I'd just baseline that shit for your first grow.  If you save some coir to case, I'd keep it in the fridge.  That stuff can smell a bit funky after some days sitting out.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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