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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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religion and spirituality
    #22182968 - 09/03/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The Abrahamic religions -- Christianity, Islam and Judaism -- deal with a lot of spiritual truth -- there is no doubting that.  But for me, they deal perhaps with too much human fallacy, also.  I would add that the religions of the East are much more sophisticated psychologically and philosophically, but they themselves are colored by a lot of dogma and human corruption (of the truth).  Therefore, I cannot very well be a religious person, despite the arguably legitimate merits that many religions embrace.  The prophets inspiring these religions I'm fine with.  It's what large swaths of acolytes have done with their teachings -- turning them into inflexible dogmas -- and the institutionalization and rigid religious practice that keep me away.  I'm for independent spirituality more than dependent human hierarchy.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinedeff
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22183042 - 09/03/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:smile: :thumbup:

that about sums up my feelings about it as well

I practiced for several years in a Tibetan Buddhist sense, but then that eventually fell away and I am now much more inclined to independent spirituality like you say. I take what I feel is valuable from many different sources, including continuing mantra meditation practices from Tibetan Buddhism, but without the dogma and rigidity of institutionalized spirituality. And I'm much happier for that :smile: That said, I think religions can serve a purpose for certain people at certain points in their spiritual development - but that eventually it's best if they fall away to reveal a more inwardly guided path :smile:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22183071 - 09/03/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
the institutionalization and rigid religious practice that keep me away.



Yep, spot on man. I could never subscribe to a single belief system, instead I aspire to a fluid and self-inspired/self-discovered system which is always open to change.

I guess that puts us pretty squarely in the minority though right?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22183209 - 09/03/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
I think religions can serve a purpose for certain people at certain points in their spiritual development - but that eventually it's best if they fall away to reveal a more inwardly guided path :smile:




Yes, at least that makes the most sense to me.  In a hyperconnected world, people should take advantage of their augmented capacity for choice in these matters to have the best possible benefit for their own unique outlook.  I think George Carlin said once that you're doing fine if your belief system doesn't have a name. 


Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I guess that puts us pretty squarely in the minority though right?




I would say we are decidedly in the minority, yes.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22183366 - 09/03/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I think George Carlin said once that you're doing fine if your belief system doesn't have a name. 





He did indeed:

If your belief system has a name, you're in trouble.
--George Carlin

Someone once said this of religion too, which seems relevant to the OP (it's in my quotes book but the author is unknown):

The idea of converting is to expand the meme of those religious beliefs for the religious institutions to assert power. In short these religions are not based on appeasement of any deity but on the belief of personal egoic salvation using the existential fear as the leveraging tool. It is a powerful motivator; if stripped of everything but the core you get: Join us and you will get everlasting pleasure after death, don't and you will get everlasting pain. The actual teachings of compassion by the teachers is lost. Since the idea of death is so threatening to the ego self complex it is no small coincidence that the proselytizing religions have the most followers, most of which will go through hell when their ego dissolves at death.

Which reminds me of this stunningly succinct remark by Bill Hicks (I absolutely love this one):

Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love.

Do you think that organised religion shows any sense of decline? Do you think there will ever come a time when we will see a shift towards 'independent spirituality'?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22183609 - 09/03/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I think these quotes of John (Fire) Lame Deer are particularly apt here:

Quote:

"We believe all religions are really the same -- all part of the Great Spirit.  The trouble is not with Christianity, with religion, but with what you have made out of it.  You have turned it upside down.  You have made the religion of the protest leader and hippie Jesus into the religion of missionaries, army padres, Bureau of Indian Affairs officials.  These are altogether different religions, my friend."




Quote:

"At the core of all Indian beliefs are visions gotten in various ways.  The Christian and Jewish religion, the great religions of the East, are based on the same thing, only white people have forgotten this.  It's no longer important to them."





And to answer your question, I think religion is declining in general only in the Western, more secularized nations.  In the poorer regions of the world, I think it is still quite strong.  That's my impression, anyway.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: religion and spirituality [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22204320 - 09/07/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The Abrahamic religions -- Christianity, Islam and Judaism -- deal with a lot of spiritual truth -- there is no doubting that.  But for me, they deal perhaps with too much human fallacy, also.  I would add that the religions of the East are much more sophisticated psychologically and philosophically, but they themselves are colored by a lot of dogma and human corruption (of the truth).  Therefore, I cannot very well be a religious person, despite the arguably legitimate merits that many religions embrace.  The prophets inspiring these religions I'm fine with.  It's what large swaths of acolytes have done with their teachings -- turning them into inflexible dogmas -- and the institutionalization and rigid religious practice that keep me away.  I'm for independent spirituality more than dependent human hierarchy.



I feel the same. I personally don't ascribe to any single belief system. You dont have to. The problem with it is that it is often taken too literally. IMO I would just read on your own and take what you want


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