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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22207758 - 09/08/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

u peeps still bitching and moaning? :whatyougonnado:


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: qman]
    #22207760 - 09/08/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:11 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22207767 - 09/08/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

God I feel like banging my head into a brick wall.

Your quote explains it and you still don't get it:

Retirees are not counted as being part of the labor force, therefore they reduce the participation rate because they are still part of the working age group defined IN YOUR OWN POST as the total population over the minimum working age. The nominator gets smaller but the denominator stays the same.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22207768 - 09/08/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I aint got nothing else to do right now.


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22207784 - 09/08/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:11 AM)


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22207788 - 09/08/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I like how k00ds says Americans derogatorily/racistly! He thinks he's better than us! PTAH!


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22207800 - 09/08/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shroombasa said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I saw it.  Retired people do not count.

http://www.econport.org/content/handbook/Unemployment/Define.html

Quote:

While studying employment, another important figure to determine is the labor force participation rate. Here, we compare the size of the labor force with the number of people that could potentially be a part of the labor force. It is important to note that we do not include people under the age of 16 in this figure. In addition, students, retirees, the disabled, homemakers, and the voluntarily idle are not counted in the labor force. The labor force as the percentage of the total population over the minimum working age is called labor force participation rate.







Why don't you quote the BLS instead of a third-party source?  You'll very easily see you're incorrect, unless of course you're being intentionally obtuse.





His quote is accurate. He just doesn't understand what it means.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: koods]
    #22207802 - 09/08/15 03:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
God I feel like banging my head into a brick wall.

Your quote explains it and you still don't get it:

Retirees are not counted as being part of the labor force, therefore they reduce the participation rate because they are still part of the working age group defined IN YOUR OWN POST as the total population over the minimum working age. The nominator gets smaller but the denominator stays the same.



Oh my fucking god.  Retirees are not counted as part of the WORKING POPULATION.  Just like people under 16 aren't counted.  Are you a comedian

Quote:

While studying employment, another important figure to determine is the labor force participation rate. Here, we compare the size of the labor force with the number of people that could potentially be a part of the labor force. It is important to note that we do not include people under the age of 16 in this figure. In addition, students, retirees, the disabled, homemakers, and the voluntarily idle are not counted in the labor force.




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Offlineqman
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22207823 - 09/08/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shroombasa said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

U6 (which is a another government unemployment statistic is around 11%). Once again, it's understated.

Is working a 10 hour per week job employment? No. When someone works 2-3 jobs, it counts as 3 different people having a job when it reality it's not, that skews the statistics.

Why are over 50 million Americans on food stamps with just a 5.4% unemployment rate?

Do you know what percentage of baby boomers that can afford to retire today?  It's around 25%!!!  Do you know the demographic that has the strongest job growth the past 5-10 years?  Yes, 50-60 year olds. Your speculations are NOT adding up my friend.




I don't disagree with U6, but simply to say that 11% of people are now underemployed doesn't represent the rise in the underemployment since the recession.  There will always be a baseline measurement of comparison.  BUT, I'm not saying you're wrong either.  If you could find a graph of underemployment over time that precedes 2007 I'd certainly love to give it a decent look over.

As far as working multiple jobs, I'm pretty sure the unemployment methodology weeds out that too.

Why are 50 million Americans on food stamps with "low" unemployment?  Low hourly wages.  Walmart alone employs almost 1.5 million people alone in this country.  I've never once heard people say, "Damn, those Walmart workers are making bank."  Furthermore, welfare benefits are next to nothing for a family of four.  I think it's something to the tune of $150 a month on average.  Take into account the number of elderly receiving food stamps and this represents a good chuck of that figure (it's actually more like 46 million or ~14% of the population). 

I don't know how many boomers are able to retire comfortably, but quite frankly, I don't see how that matters either.  If you worked during the greatest period of economic growth in US history and didn't save enough for your retirement, there's no one to blame but yourself.  As far as boomers having success in the labor market, I've heard differing accounts.  Some are sticking it out a few extra years to save up before they hit 67 (or whatever social security pays at now), some are stuck financially, and some are just working because they can bring decades of experience to the table. 

Regardless of the reason, I'm really not sure what this has to do with European immigration.  I'm not sure exactly what you believe I'm speculating about, as I never said that the strength of the US economy is back to pre-recession levels.  And comparing the US to the EU is apples and oranges.  However, I do want to thank you.  Of all the posts I've received comments on, you were the only one to actually present cognizant counter arguments (whether I agree with them or not).  My hat's off to you, sir.




U6 is an unemployment rate, NOT underemployment.

Anyways, you're proving my point, we have too many economically struggling people already in the US despite all of your "indicators" showing otherwise, this also applies to the EU. The US is actually considered the strongest of all developed economies, what does that say about the state of the EU? :lol:


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22207840 - 09/08/15 03:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Peace and long life.


Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:11 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: zappaisgod]
    #22207849 - 09/08/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The labor force divided by the total population OVER the minimum working age is the participation rate.

Retirees are NOT part of the labor force. They are OVER the minimum working age. Therefore, when someone retires this causes the participation rate to decline.

If there was a maximum working age, it would be specified. I challenge you to find anything that says people over a certain age are not part if the working age population.


Explaining this is kinda moot, whether you get it or not, since the BLS explains quite clearly that retirees are putting downward pressure on the rate.


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OfflineDr.Wongburger
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: koods]
    #22207866 - 09/08/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There should be a shroomery gathering of people who feel strong about immigration issues. Held like a real debate would be. ahhh to see people get pissed off at each other in person.. I would live to watch this debate. And record it :grin:


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: qman]
    #22207892 - 09/08/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Peace and long life.


Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:11 AM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22207949 - 09/08/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shroombasa said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

shroombasa said:
Quote:

qman said:
http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

U6 (which is a another government unemployment statistic is around 11%). Once again, it's understated.

Is working a 10 hour per week job employment? No. When someone works 2-3 jobs, it counts as 3 different people having a job when it reality it's not, that skews the statistics.

Why are over 50 million Americans on food stamps with just a 5.4% unemployment rate?

Do you know what percentage of baby boomers that can afford to retire today?  It's around 25%!!!  Do you know the demographic that has the strongest job growth the past 5-10 years?  Yes, 50-60 year olds. Your speculations are NOT adding up my friend.




I don't disagree with U6, but simply to say that 11% of people are now underemployed doesn't represent the rise in the underemployment since the recession.  There will always be a baseline measurement of comparison.  BUT, I'm not saying you're wrong either.  If you could find a graph of underemployment over time that precedes 2007 I'd certainly love to give it a decent look over.

As far as working multiple jobs, I'm pretty sure the unemployment methodology weeds out that too.

Why are 50 million Americans on food stamps with "low" unemployment?  Low hourly wages.  Walmart alone employs almost 1.5 million people alone in this country.  I've never once heard people say, "Damn, those Walmart workers are making bank."  Furthermore, welfare benefits are next to nothing for a family of four.  I think it's something to the tune of $150 a month on average.  Take into account the number of elderly receiving food stamps and this represents a good chuck of that figure (it's actually more like 46 million or ~14% of the population). 

I don't know how many boomers are able to retire comfortably, but quite frankly, I don't see how that matters either.  If you worked during the greatest period of economic growth in US history and didn't save enough for your retirement, there's no one to blame but yourself.  As far as boomers having success in the labor market, I've heard differing accounts.  Some are sticking it out a few extra years to save up before they hit 67 (or whatever social security pays at now), some are stuck financially, and some are just working because they can bring decades of experience to the table. 

Regardless of the reason, I'm really not sure what this has to do with European immigration.  I'm not sure exactly what you believe I'm speculating about, as I never said that the strength of the US economy is back to pre-recession levels.  And comparing the US to the EU is apples and oranges.  However, I do want to thank you.  Of all the posts I've received comments on, you were the only one to actually present cognizant counter arguments (whether I agree with them or not).  My hat's off to you, sir.




U6 is an unemployment rate, NOT underemployment.

Anyways, you're proving my point, we have too many economically struggling people already in the US despite all of your "indicators" showing otherwise, this also applies to the EU. The US is actually considered the strongest of all developed economies, what does that say about the state of the EU? :lol:




Apologies, underutilization.  You are correct.  U3 is the unemployment rate.

I fail to see how I'm proving your point.  I've made NO ASSERTIONS of the strength of the US economy.  I joined this discussion to say that Germany stands to benefit from increased migration.  NOT the US, NOT the EU, NOT Africa or any other country or region.  If you care to read the previous posts, you'll see the US was interjected into the discussion tangentially as a counter claim to the government's 5.3% unemployment figures.  I have no interest in discussing the strength of the US economy as that is not the primary topic of this conversation.




New alert!!  Germany's economy really isn't doing so great, German bond yields actually traded in the negative level not so long ago, that's called a struggling economic scenario.


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: qman] * 1
    #22207979 - 09/08/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Peace and long life.


Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:12 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: koods]
    #22207985 - 09/08/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The labor force divided by the total population OVER the minimum working age is the participation rate.

Retirees are NOT part of the labor force. They are OVER the minimum working age. Therefore, when someone retires this causes the participation rate to decline.

If there was a maximum working age, it would be specified. I challenge you to find anything that says people over a certain age are not part if the working age population.


Explaining this is kinda moot, whether you get it or not, since the BLS explains quite clearly that retirees are putting downward pressure on the rate.



They are not counted in either the numerator or the denominator.  They are not counted any more than children are.  The BLS is a political organization.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/15/u-s-unemployment-retirees-are-not-the-labor-exodus-problem/
Quote:

Since 2003, those 65 years and older have seen their labor force participation rate rise from 13.99 percent to 18.7 percent. Those aged 55-64 saw their rate rise from 62.44 percent to 64.36 percent, a recent Americans for Limited Government (ALG) study of Bureau data from 2003-2013 shows.

Meanwhile, participation by those aged 16-24 dropped from 61.56 percent in 2003 to 55.05 percent in 2013, and for those aged 25-54, it dropped from 82.98 percent to 82.01 percent.




It has nothing to do with ageing boomers and everything to do with inept socialist regulating tools.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22208000 - 09/08/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shroombasa said:
News alert!  Low bond yields indicate investor safe havens.  The safer the haven, the lower the yield the country has to offer to attract bond buyers.

This is the exact same reason Germany hasn't suffered from the Greek debt crisis despite Germans holding the largest share of Greek debt.  Insecurity about the future of the EU led investors straight into the arms of Germany because investors believed Germany was a safe house for their money.  With the influx of capital and the perceived risk (or lack of risk) of German bonds, Germany was able to offset their entire liability with lower interest payments.




Would you also called Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, safe havens as well?  Their yields weren't that much higher.  It's called putting lipstick on a pig.

BTW, their interest payments only decrease if they issue or rollover into the lower bond yields.


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: qman]
    #22208005 - 09/08/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Peace and long life.


Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:12 AM)


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Offlineshroombasa
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: qman]
    #22208028 - 09/08/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Peace and long life.


Edited by shroombasa (09/12/16 09:12 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Americans need to stop bitching about illegal immigration [Re: shroombasa]
    #22208057 - 09/08/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Actually what they do is DEFAULT AND RIP THE LENDERS OFF.  Thank me for your economics lesson.  Can I direct you to Argentina?


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