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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#22187626 - 09/04/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Agree to disagree. I just don't find it surprising at all when people have NDE's one of the first things they think about is God or heaven. Those are pretty important things to people who are about to die. They are probably not thinking about the Lakers game or grilled cheese sandwiches.
It is human psychology what is so hard to understand here?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187632 - 09/04/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:
Any reasonable explanation for how the brain accomplishes all those things when it is technically dead and not showing any activity at all?
just because they had an experience when they died doesn't mean they had it while they were braindead. you are assuming time works the same way while we are dreaming, but it doesn't. they could have experienced everything before going brain dead and the end of the dream would be them waking up, aka they would never know they went brain dead in the dream....aka it would seem like they dreamed the entire time they were asleep/braindead
You need to read more about some of the NDE's where the dying individual recounts, in detail what was happening around them when their brain was technically not functioning. There's a lot of data on this.
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-see-verified-events-while-obe.html
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#22187647 - 09/04/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said:
Quote:
Any reasonable explanation for how the brain accomplishes all those things when it is technically dead and not showing any activity at all?
just because they had an experience when they died doesn't mean they had it while they were braindead. you are assuming time works the same way while we are dreaming, but it doesn't. they could have experienced everything before going brain dead and the end of the dream would be them waking up, aka they would never know they went brain dead in the dream....aka it would seem like they dreamed the entire time they were asleep/braindead
You need to read more about some of the NDE's where the dying individual recounts, in detail what was happening around them when their brain was technically not functioning. There's a lot of data on this.
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-see-verified-events-while-obe.html
Also, never underestimate people's ability to let their imaginations run wild and come up with a bunch of bullshit and start to believe it. Even if their brain was not functioning it is not hard at all for them to make up some story they think really happened when they are fully conscious again.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (09/04/15 11:44 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22187649 - 09/04/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Agree to disagree. I just don't find it surprising at all when people have NDE's one of the first things they think about is God or heaven. Those are pretty important things to people who are about to die. They are probably not thinking about the Lakers game or grilled cheese sandwiches.
It is human psychology what is so hard to understand here?
So you're saying the brain just manufactures an incredibly complex fantasy with meetings with deities, total life reviews in minute detail from the moment they were , visits to cosmic libraries, re unions with lost family members ...
The brain must "makes all this stuff up?" Why? If you're dying and there's no afterlife, what is the point. The brain should just shut off the lights and put us out of our misery.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22187655 - 09/04/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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also they study brainwaves from outside they skull using probes that may or may not be able to pick up smaller micro readings. so a person might look braindead on the monitor but there could be readings still going on.
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Moonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22187656 - 09/04/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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These are cases of people recounting in specific detail things that are accurate and correct and which there is no possible way they could have known if consciousness was limited to the brain. This DOES prove something, in fact it proves that consciousness and perception can exist and function independently of the brain, which strongly suggests the possibility of an afterlife and indeed virtually proves it. These are not vague things like "someone was sad in the hospital" that could be a lucky guess. this is stuff like "the doctor in the next room over picked up a tool with a blue handle and used it to cut open the left arm of the old woman and then handed it to the blonde nurse" when the person recounting this had never seen that room, those people or had any idea what was going on in there.
They have out of body experiences where they accurately observe things occurring in real life while they are brain dead with eyes closed.
This is not something that has happened once or twice but many times, and has been documented and confirmed by doctors etc who were present.
These near death experiences are essentially the ONLY evidence pertaining to whether or not there is life after death.
If you want to know what is going on in the ocean you trust scuba divers. If you want to know what is going on in space you trust astronauts. If you want to know what is going on in Australia you trust the people who have been there. If you want to know what happens when you die you trust the people who have died and come back. They are the ONLY ones in a position to know what they are talking about and they assure us that there are experiences awaiting us after death as we know it.
Unless you have really investigated the body of evidence about NDEs you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to death, dying and the afterlife. This is by far the most relevant and important evidence on this subject.
Yes it is absolutely incredible that people who die have these amazing experiences, and absolutely astounding that they can accurately observe things happening in the physical world while they are dead, but it is nevertheless true. Sometimes reality is astonishing but we have to deal with it as it really is.
This reality of NDEs matches perfectly with what we are told by traditions such as Tibetan Buddhism and the Book of the Dead. For the first time modern medicine is allowing large numbers of people to be revived from a death state. and therefore there is now a large and growing body of first hand experiential evidence of what was previously unknowable- the death process. And what these survivors are telling us essentially matches what has been said since time immemorial by the world's various wisdom traditions. Death as we know it is not the end, and we have strange journeys and dreams awaiting us. Furthermore, Veridical NDEs show us these are not "just" visions and dreams, but actually "real" states that can involve accurately perceiving the shared physical world while dead.
"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio" -Shakespeare
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/04/15 11:47 AM)
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Moonshoe]
#22187665 - 09/04/15 11:48 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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the fact that the heart beats is also a good indication of this, it takes electrical signals for the brain to tell the heart to beat, if the brain monitors arn't picking that up, then there's alot they arn't getting
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187675 - 09/04/15 11:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: the fact that the heart beats is also a good indication of this, it takes electrical signals for the brain to tell the heart to beat, if the brain monitors arn't picking that up, then there's alot they arn't getting
There are NDE cases where the heart has stopped beating and the brain activity is nil for well over 10 minutes.
This guy showed no vital signs for 90 minutes.
http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (09/04/15 11:53 AM)
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22187721 - 09/04/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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did you read anything i wrote? their ability to monitor brain activity is in question. peoples hearts stop all the time and they still have brain activity, so they could just as easily have the heart stop and brain activity drop to below 'detectable' levels. also they could be going in and out of 'just enough' brain activity to pick up on surroundings without setting off the brain monitor
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (09/04/15 12:01 PM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187736 - 09/04/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: did you read anything i wrote? their ability to monitor brain activity is in question. peoples hearts stop all the time and they still have brain activity, so they could just as easily have the heart stop and brain activity drop to below 'detectable' levels. also they could be going in and out of 'just enough' brain activity to pick up on surroundings without setting off the brain monitor
How then are they noticing what is happening in an other room of the hospital?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22187786 - 09/04/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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who says they are? nurses talk, alot, prolly overheard one. and if your going to say it was a study, well there were still nurses there, still plenty of places for shit to squeek through. its hard to know without having actually been there how legit it was
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  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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HalluciNate
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187799 - 09/04/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I personally believe the death of the body does not render a death of self.
I personally believe the physical body houses consciousness.
Yea, I can experience nothingness/the void for awhile, but what will I choose after that?
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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pirate-blues


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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#22187801 - 09/04/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: the fact that the heart beats is also a good indication of this, it takes electrical signals for the brain to tell the heart to beat, if the brain monitors arn't picking that up, then there's alot they arn't getting
There are NDE cases where the heart has stopped beating and the brain activity is nil for well over 10 minutes.
This guy showed no vital signs for 90 minutes.
http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html
Call me jaded, but I'm skeptical about anyone's so called account when they're peddling books. Fear of death is something that every person has at one time or another, it's a vulnerable and easy target for someone to exploit for monetary gain.
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HalluciNate
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: HalluciNate]
#22187802 - 09/04/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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SO, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE???
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Posts: 3,131
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187811 - 09/04/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8 said: who says they are? nurses talk, alot, prolly overheard one. and if your going to say it was a study, well there were still nurses there, still plenty of places for shit to squeek through. its hard to know without having actually been there how legit it was
There are quite a few doctors and nurses that have related these cases. I guess you can always say they're wrong, mistaken, etc. That's the always there escape hatch.
But, of course, most Doctors are skeptics themselves ... many consider themselves scientists and they must certainly look at the situation and look for the obvious explanations. But they don't see them.
Anyway, the NDE is happening a lot now because of modern medicine's ability to bring people back from deeper and deeper in the death experience. There's a lot of data on it and a lot of cases where the NDE person witnesses things in other locations that are verified. There's a lot of data on this.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22187838 - 09/04/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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wasn't that shit all done in big Christian hospitals? and like the other guy said, selling books n shit.
i wouldn't think many legit doctors would touch anything like that with a 10 foot pole in fear of being laughed out of their job, unless they had some kind of bias
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Moonshoe]
#22187883 - 09/04/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: These are cases of people recounting in specific detail things that are accurate and correct and which there is no possible way they could have known if consciousness was limited to the brain. This DOES prove something, in fact it proves that consciousness and perception can exist and function independently of the brain, which strongly suggests the possibility of an afterlife and indeed virtually proves it. These are not vague things like "someone was sad in the hospital" that could be a lucky guess. this is stuff like "the doctor in the next room over picked up a tool with a blue handle and used it to cut open the left arm of the old woman and then handed it to the blonde nurse" when the person recounting this had never seen that room, those people or had any idea what was going on in there.
They have out of body experiences where they accurately observe things occurring in real life while they are brain dead with eyes closed.
This is not something that has happened once or twice but many times, and has been documented and confirmed by doctors etc who were present.
These near death experiences are essentially the ONLY evidence pertaining to whether or not there is life after death.
If you want to know what is going on in the ocean you trust scuba divers. If you want to know what is going on in space you trust astronauts. If you want to know what is going on in Australia you trust the people who have been there. If you want to know what happens when you die you trust the people who have died and come back. They are the ONLY ones in a position to know what they are talking about and they assure us that there are experiences awaiting us after death as we know it.
Unless you have really investigated the body of evidence about NDEs you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to death, dying and the afterlife. This is by far the most relevant and important evidence on this subject.
Yes it is absolutely incredible that people who die have these amazing experiences, and absolutely astounding that they can accurately observe things happening in the physical world while they are dead, but it is nevertheless true. Sometimes reality is astonishing but we have to deal with it as it really is.
This reality of NDEs matches perfectly with what we are told by traditions such as Tibetan Buddhism and the Book of the Dead. For the first time modern medicine is allowing large numbers of people to be revived from a death state. and therefore there is now a large and growing body of first hand experiential evidence of what was previously unknowable- the death process. And what these survivors are telling us essentially matches what has been said since time immemorial by the world's various wisdom traditions. Death as we know it is not the end, and we have strange journeys and dreams awaiting us. Furthermore, Veridical NDEs show us these are not "just" visions and dreams, but actually "real" states that can involve accurately perceiving the shared physical world while dead.
"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio" -Shakespeare
That's not evidence for anything, sorry to burst your bubble. Ask any scientist if that proves there is an after life and they will all tell you NO. You are making a lot of assumptions based off a few people saying what was happening when they were not awake.
Someone in the room should hold up a sign with any number from one to a million on it and ask the mostly dead person to say that number. Then you have proof.
Like on the paper someone in the room rights 242 362 then when the person who is nearly dead or whatever is awake you ask them the number that was written down. I guarantee they get it wrong or don't even know you wrote anything down.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (09/04/15 12:41 PM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22187886 - 09/04/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said: wasn't that shit all done in big Christian hospitals? and like the other guy said, selling books n shit.
i wouldn't think many legit doctors would touch anything like that with a 10 foot pole in fear of being laughed out of their job, unless they had some kind of bias
NDE's are happening frequently in every busy emergency room in the country. This is a very common experience in hospitals. What exactly is a non "legit" doctor, anyway?
No doubt there are many charlatans ... but the estimate is now that 7 million people have had legitimate NDE's. That's a lot of data to work with.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#22188132 - 09/04/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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if you havn't heard the term legit, and quack doctor before then i can't help you. you either get the reference or you don't. and you claiming their is 7 million "legit" NDE's, tells me that you and me have completely different idea's on what the word legit means. your claim in my definition puts you closer to 7 million quack NDE storys
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#22188145 - 09/04/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The NDE anecdotes are really complete bullshit and are not proof for anything.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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