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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #22185670 - 09/03/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Does anyone not?

I thought you fuckers were supposed to be enlightened and not a...what's the singular of sheeple? Sherson? Anyway, yes, when you die you're dead.

In other news, breakthrough discovery at CERN earlier: The coffee machine makes coffee.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22185713 - 09/03/15 10:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

YOU WASTED YOUR LIFE BITTER CACTUS


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #22185799 - 09/03/15 11:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There is no such thing as enlightenment.  Based on the buddhist concept, when someone becomes enlightened they would transcend the physical world of matter, no longer existing in it.  To become enlightened one must free themselves of all desires.  In order for us to know about enlightenment, someone would have had to become enlightened and therefor wouldn't exist in this physical world.  If they were able to travel back and forth, they would have to desire for someone to know about enlightenment, thus taking away their enlightenment.  Therefor, the only true enlightenment is realizing there is no such thing as enlightenment.  Sorry Buddha, you've got a lot of wisdom for peace of mind tho.

I believe the brain is a transmitter and receiver of consciousness, but not the creator of it.  This is why if it is damaged it can affect how it is transmitted and received.  That would make your body and the the emotions tied to your experience your soul.

The Universal consciousness/energy that you tap into is the Holy Spirit.  The Universe is all-knowledge, all powerful, and all-present.  It made you in it's image- you literally discover yourself by learning and interacting with the world around you.  When drops of rain form, they each have a unique volume and they accelerate at a constant rate -9.8 m/s/s towards the ocean. When we are born we each have our unique features and we start falling through time at a constant rate- 60 sec/min, 60 min/hr, etc... 

The entire time we are alive we are staring at the Universe, thinking we are separate.  But the raindrop is just water, just as the ocean is.  The separation is an illusion presented by time.  We are literally made from the world around us, we eat it and it becomes us.  We are staring at ourselves our entire lives, and when we die we splash back to the ocean of consciousness that is manifesting all matter.  We are raindrops of the Universe.  The Raindrop would be the soul, and the ocean would be the Spirit from which it came from.  I believe this is the same as the philosophy Atman-Brahman, where your soul is the Atman and the Universe(not matter, but the energy that manifests it) is the Brahman and they are one in the same.

This is what namaste is referring to- the soul in me acknowledges the soul in you, aka I AM in me see's the I AM in you and respects it.  This is why we should live for each other, because we are each other as spirit, brothers and sisters as souls.  The soul taps into that spirit when it lives selflessly and rejoices in the power of love.   

Homo Sapien = One Awareness/Wise ONE.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 
EVOLUTION REQUIRES REPRODUCTION


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #22185911 - 09/03/15 11:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The ocean denies no river or stream..


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #22185930 - 09/03/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

At the individual level, life is completely over upon death.
Even traditions like Advaita Vedanta (philisophical Hinduism) and Buddhism, that discuss the idea of reincarnation, discuss this sentiment in various ways.

At the larger level, Life goes on even without my consciousness directly observing it.
The remains of my physical body will feed the plants in the soils.
The remains of my thoughts and emotional energies will continue through those whose lives I have touched.

The Buddhist perception of reincarnation is like a candle lighting a candle that lights a subsequent series of candles -- it is not that a soul or Atman travels from body to body. 

Buddha and Adi Shankara both taught about this -- Indeed, in both traditions a lack of permanent self is a central teaching, despite both traditions often being associated with the idea of reincarnation.

Quote:

Buddhists believe that there is no permanent underlying substance in human beings. They believe that anattā/anātman (non-self), impermanence and dukkha (suffering) are the three characteristics (trilakkhana) of all existence, and understanding of these three constitutes right understanding. "The anātman doctrine was in no sense an addendum, since it was fundamental to the other two doctrines; that is, because there is no real human self, there is no duration in human experience; and because there is no duration in human experience, there is no genuine happiness."



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatman_%28Hinduism%29

For anyone interested in this philosophical idea taken even further, Nagarjuna's text the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā is a really great read.


Edited by Tantrika (09/04/15 01:21 AM)


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Invisible404
error
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Tantrika]
    #22185942 - 09/03/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

depends on what sect of buddhism you're talking about. tibetans believe in reincarnation right?


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22185971 - 09/04/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Scientists will also be the first to tell you that when you come up with an idea like reincarnation or heaven and state that it happens after you die, the burden of proof is on you to prove it as a fact or else the statement is false.

These ideas are cool and all, but I am all about science and science is telling me that your ideas are just ideas and not based in reality.



what about experience?

Why is the experience of reincarnation itself never brought up or analyzed?

For example, there are a few hundred trip reports online with people describing experiencing multiple past-lives advancing up the spectrum of consciousness, the past incarnations of oneself up to and in some, past oneself.

Thousands (probably millions) of people throughout history have reported similar experiences without the use of psychedelics.

Why are people having these experiences?
Obviously its not just a continual 'lie' throughout history, this is an actual phenomena of human experience.

And if its just some hallucination, well thats some hallucination.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisible404
error
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: hTx] * 1
    #22185981 - 09/04/15 12:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

man that could be like just tapping into the collective and the 5th dimension allowing you to access other points in space time like whoa
:mindblown:


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: 404] * 1
    #22186154 - 09/04/15 01:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
depends on what sect of buddhism you're talking about. tibetans believe in reincarnation right?




A lot of Tibetan Buddhism is a number of further sub-sects of a broader category known as Vajrayana Buddhism.  Vajrayana is Tantric Buddhism.
Vajrayana is a system that stemmed out of Mahayana Buddhism, of which the work by Nagarjuna that was mentioned is a major formative teaching.

One of the issues that came up was when Mahayana Buddhism reached East Asia, they really had to emphasis social action in order to compete with the well-established teachings of Confucianism and Daoism.  Early Buddhism focused on a need to withdraw from society that really clashed with the importance of social values and order in Confucianism -- as Buddhism was a foreign religion to the area, it was easier to reject than the breakaway from Hinduism when it initially developed in India.  Buddhism emphasized and established new teachings by new writers, and Mahayana Buddhism became something separate from Theravada Buddhism, which proclaims to follow only the original teachings of the Buddha.

As such, the idea of the Bodhisattva vow is really prevalent through Mahayana traditions prior to Vajrayana.  The Bodhisattva vow is an idea that an individual will willfully continually reincarnate for the good of all beings -- it does not necessitate an idea of a permanent self quite so much as active compassion, but the outside view that it is promoting such a sentiment is fairly valid.
Vajrayana Buddhism is actually sort of a break-away from Mahayana traditions that were becoming convoluted; and re-established an idea that a person could become an enlightened Buddha in this very lifetime rather than being subject to continual reincarnation to that end.

The Tulku system is the formalized idea of reincarnation in Tibetan Buddhism, and it gets a little messy.
First and formost, it is probably worth noting that the Tulku system allowed for a pretty controlled passage of power and a continual lineage of ruling class.
On the other hand, having watched a really interesting documentary called Unmistaken Child which chronicled the search for a reincarnated master who recently died, the system is rather weird.  They actually take objects that belonged to the former master from child to child in a predicted area -- the objects are mixed with a bunch of other random similar articles, and the child declared to be the reincarnation of the master is the child who is able to consistently choose all of the previous master's items with no errors.

Despite the level of oddity and uncanny occurrences involved in the location process, my feedback on the Tulku system is mostly of the view that it was devised as a system of passing power more than a philosophical consistency within the tradition -- reflecting on the teaching of Marpa and Milarepa (early teachers that helped establish Vajrayana in Tibet), do not really recall any sense that reincarnation was anything other than the original Buddha's sentiment.  It is possible I am forgetting something, but I do remember Milarepa's life was one of early turmoil over a fear of having generated bad karma and wanting to fix things for the next life, and eventually receiving teachings from Marpa that liberated him in his own lifetime instead.

It is also interesting to stop and consider now that I have written this but...the Tulku system that passed royal lineage through Tibet actually kind of makes me think of the caste system in early India.
Social mobility was tied to an idea that individuals had to be reborn into positions of the powerful caste. 
Renunciation of this sentiment was one of the things that Buddha was pretty big on -- he started a tradition that specifically broke out of the old Vedic expressions of reincarnation and social hierarchy.

Uhhh, that ended up far more wordy than I had intended.

Maybe as a TL;DR
Many modern Tibetan Buddhists do indeed seem to hold to a more conventional idea of reincarnation, but the system established itself later on in terms of Buddhist history.
There is indeed a level of contrast between some core teachings and what appeals to the masses at a conventional level though.
It may well be appropriate to say that Buddhism does not rally teach a sense of a permanent self, but that many Buddhists frequently still hold to such a concept as a way of helping to order their sense of the world.  In Religious Studies, there was a fair bit of acknowledgement that Buddhism as a philosophical tradition and Buddhism as a living religion have some pretty dramatic contrasts.

But yes, you are correct to specify that a lot of variables can change by religious sect.

Think that a lot of trying to label what happens beyond death is a matter of establishing a sense or order -- whether it is an afterlife or a rebirth, it alleviates stress from the common person to consider that their lot in the current life and resentment over a lack of social mobility may change in the next.  An idea that though this life sucks, enough focused effort will make the afterlife or the next life better.
In more modern times, we have some degree of social mobility that can be achieved in the current lifetime -- focusing on what happens after death as anything other than the legacy we leave is potentially cheating ourselves of the fullness of this life.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #22186161 - 09/04/15 01:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is no afterlife or resurrection.  Dead is dead.





a petty bold statement coming from someone that only knows what its like to be alive.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineQuit The Cult
World is yours

Registered: 11/12/14
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #22186294 - 09/04/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lol science doesnt explain everything. Please try explain to me (with 100% certainty) how we even got here in the first place to be existing? Oh wait, you cant. Damn.

I personally believe there is much more after this life we are currently in.


--------------------
Ill always have typos. Using a shitty phone to write on here.


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Invisiblepirate-blues
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Quit The Cult]
    #22186395 - 09/04/15 04:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I don't draw any conclusions or solid beliefs until I see objective facts. It's safe to assume I'll never draw any conclusions about this subject, and I'm cool with it. I could speculate forever on the nature of existence, but it's 6am right now so fuck that.


The only thing I know for sure about where "I'll" go after I die, is that I've been there before.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: pirate-blues] * 1
    #22186464 - 09/04/15 05:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

With regards to science ... There is no "proof" of an afterlife nor is there any proof the afterlife doesn't exist.  On the other hand, there are literally billions of people that have lived on this planet that claimed a direct experience with either advanced beings from a multi-dimensional afterlife world or some kind of near death experience ("NDE") that brought them near or into an afterlife world-reality.  So the anecdotal evidence clearly points toward an afterlife.  There is also the 21 grams scientific study which most are familiar with.

For those that do not believe in an afterlife, why exactly does the brain create these incredibly elaborate near death experience with lengthy full life reviews, visits to libraries with the history of the universe and the experience of visits to all kinds of possible realms? For what possible reason if it's just lights out and it's over at the end?  Why would the brain concoct all this trickery at the moment of death?  WHY?  Also, what exactly are these incredibly complex and infinitely varied astral realms that out of body and lucid dreaming travelers are finding and visiting.  How does the brain create them having never seen them before?  They are far, far more elaborate than any imaginary experience we can create?  Again, why? 

Seems there are many, many clues pointing to the existence of a multi dimensional universe with highly advanced beings that somehow traverse these dimensions.  Perhaps we're just learning how to do that which is why death seems a mystery. 

We are either spiritual beings using a human bio interface to interact with this world reality or we are just an end result of billions of years of chemical reactions.  Since there is no evidence at all that lifeless matter can spring to life through a chemical reaction process, I think there is more evidence that consciousness or awareness does not need the kind of physical body we have here on earth to exist.  Therefore, for me, the afterlife is quite possible and even likely.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleConfucian
...
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22186594 - 09/04/15 07:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

With a conservative estimate, humans will be extinct within a hundred thousand years.

We are a very young (and extremely ignorant) species.

We started to control fire and create primitive art about 50,000 years ago.

It was only 5000 years ago that we invented writing.

We'll be gone and these idiotic ideas that "you live forever, man"..."when you die you meet this invisible king that lives in outer space, he isn't married but he did have sex with a woman on earth 1 time and had a son"...

All that nonsense about religious and spiritual garbage will be gone forever, thankfully.

And birds, small mammals, amphibians, reptiles, fish, plants, and insects will continue to rule the world for 100s of millions of years religion-free until the sun gets so hot it evaporates all water on earth - every ocean will be bone dry - in about 1 billion years. Until then, for the 100s of millions of years in between, these retard ideas that moronic non-logical idiot humans make up and believe will disappear.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Confucian]
    #22186819 - 09/04/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:

All that nonsense about religious and spiritual garbage will be gone forever, thankfully.







There are far more refined spiritual explanations of our multi dimensional existence than what the abrahamic religions have to offer.  Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is tempting but I find it makes sense to consider other theories of the human spirit that those that seem to inspire war and hatred of others.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22186863 - 09/04/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone read about "veridical Near Death Experiences?"

Arguably they prove that consciousness is not reducible to the body and therefore there is no reason to imagine that consciousness ends with the death of the body, and in fact veridical NDE's seem to prove that this is not the case.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22186923 - 09/04/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
The whole "when you die you release DMT in your brain" thing is bullshit too.




Yeah, even Strassman admits that it has been found only in the stomachs and urine of humans. As far as I know, no endogenous DMT has ever been found in a human brain (or any other brain, presumably).


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22186969 - 09/04/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Anyone read about "veridical Near Death Experiences?"

Arguably they prove that consciousness is not reducible to the body and therefore there is no reason to imagine that consciousness ends with the death of the body, and in fact veridical NDE's seem to prove that this is not the case.




NDE's really are the fly in the ointment of the argument against any kind of multi dimensional afterlife.

http://www.near-death.com/index.html#.VemyuXiWFO4


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (09/04/15 09:12 AM)


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OfflineBazookatooth
Jarl of Burger King

Registered: 04/09/15
Posts: 250
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22187019 - 09/04/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My buddies came up with a good theory one session. I'm going to spare you the "bro" and "whut"s and give a rough outline
That light at the end of the tunnel.
"Step into the light. Your family is waiting for you! You're almost there we can see the head!"
"Push! Push!"
I like the idea of a cosmic reset. Then again I like the idea of clouds and big titted angels with platters of weed and mushrooms.


Edited by Bazookatooth (09/04/15 09:23 AM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,368
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Re: Does anyone else here think that once you die life is completely over forever? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #22187058 - 09/04/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is no afterlife or resurrection.  Dead is dead.





a petty bold statement coming from someone that only knows what its like to be alive.




Actually zappa was dead a lot longer than he's been alive.


--------------------


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