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MiNdTwIsTeR
ThirdEye

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 427
Last seen: 7 years, 36 minutes
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Damion5050 and Doc34's WBS tek...........WBS is the only spawn i use now because of how readily available and fairly cheap it is. I then spawn it to just coir and vermiculite. and it works perfect every time....id try that route if i was you its simple yet works so good. http://www.shroomery.org/9030/Doc34-s-Wild-Bird-Seed-Tek (Minus the tyvek and coffee filter as long as have a somewhat clean enviroment) http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: MiNdTwIsTeR]
#22180841 - 09/02/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rye is probably the best grain but I find it hard to obtain. As a 2nd best type of thing I like to use wheat berries. Work great for me sometimes I like to mix them 50/50 with wild bird seed. Also the presto should hold 10 quart jars.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22180859 - 09/02/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought rye was the best until I tried oats. You couldn't pay me to go back. I get oats for 26 cents a pound and could never find rye cheaper than a dollar a pound, and I like prepping oats a lot better. Very forgiving.
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Lofetospoon9
Stranger

Registered: 05/13/15
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22180890 - 09/02/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Achillita, could you elaborate? i dont know a lot about bulk. What is "correct" pasteurization? Why would a substrate with coffee increase contams, but only whem spawn does not also contain coffee? I dont think i know enough fundamentals to understand. Thank you for the teks mind T
-------------------- 1) All living things are highly organized and contain many complex chemical substances. 2) All living things contain one or more cells 3) All living things use energy. 4) Living things have a definite form and have a limited size. 5) Living things grow. 6) Living things respond to changes in the environment. 7) Living things can reproduce. 8) Living things eventually die.
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Lofetospoon9
Stranger

Registered: 05/13/15
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Ill have to look around for bulk substrates before i know whats available. Ive got a walmart so thats why im leaning to wbs
-------------------- 1) All living things are highly organized and contain many complex chemical substances. 2) All living things contain one or more cells 3) All living things use energy. 4) Living things have a definite form and have a limited size. 5) Living things grow. 6) Living things respond to changes in the environment. 7) Living things can reproduce. 8) Living things eventually die.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Correct pasteurization is just pasteurization that doesn't accidentally cross into the bounds of sterilization. You can add coffee to your jars but not your bulk because if the coffee is colonized before you remove it from the jar, it's not a problem anymore. Uncolonized unpasteurized coffee is a mold magnet. Either pasteurize it or colonize it before you leave it sitting. Since pasteurizing can be a pain for newbies you might just want to either put it in the jar or leave it out altogether.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: Inocuole]
#22180908 - 09/02/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: I thought rye was the best until I tried oats. You couldn't pay me to go back. I get oats for 26 cents a pound and could never find rye cheaper than a dollar a pound, and I like prepping oats a lot better. Very forgiving.
I have never tried oats but anything that saves money is cool by me.
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
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So the easiest coir tek isn't a true pasteurization, it just kinda cooks the coir, as coir is pretty contam resistant. True pasteurization is above 140 degrees, but has to stay below 170.(I'm not 100%, just something I read on Franks Proper pasteurization tek) The job of pasteurization is to kill all "bad" microbes that will inhibit mycelia growth while keeping the good microbes that will stop contamination while the mycelium is growing.
Coffee is very nutritious, and is prone to contamination. But if it's already been colonized, then it has no chance of contamination. The reason why cofee works in jars, is because it's sterile throughout growth.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Loc: FREEDOM
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Quote:
Lofetospoon9 said: Ill have to look around for bulk substrates before i know whats available. Ive got a walmart so thats why im leaning to wbs
WBS would be your grain spawn not your substrate. After your grain is colonized you will mix it with your bulk substrate. WBS will work fine. I believe you can also get wheat berries at walmart that's where I found mine. As for oats I don't know exactly where you could obtain them?
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
Posts: 3,831
Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: Achillita]
#22180972 - 09/02/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: So the easiest coir tek isn't a true pasteurization, it just kinda cooks the coir, as coir is pretty contam resistant. True pasteurization is above 140 degrees, but has to stay below 170.(I'm not 100%, just something I read on Franks Proper pasteurization tek) The job of pasteurization is to kill all "bad" microbes that will inhibit mycelia growth while keeping the good microbes that will stop contamination while the mycelium is growing.
Coffee is very nutritious, and is prone to contamination. But if it's already been colonized, then it has no chance of contamination. The reason why cofee works in jars, is because it's sterile throughout growth.
I think you are right on the pasteurization. I always try to keep mine between 140 and 160 though because by the time you hit 160 who knows what the temp at the edges will be. It take longer for the center to heat up than the edges. So when I pasteurize I try to keep it on the low end of 140-160. I forget how long I usually keep it there I think its either 1 hour and remove heat and it stays there for some time before cooling below 140 or I pasteurize for 1 and a half hours. Im not sure I have it written in my journal though I haven't had to do it in some time now.
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Lofetospoon9
Stranger

Registered: 05/13/15
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22180977 - 09/02/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks inocule amd achillita for clearing that up. And yes that was just mis matching of terminology on my part, i do understand. And cant wait for bulk.
thanks a lot to all of you Im gonna try another few other cooks with regular jars after this advice then move on. To those teks. One more thing can anyone vouch for putting foil under the lid band to hold it down? Just wrapping foil on top Seems like nothing at all for a seal, just a cover.
-------------------- 1) All living things are highly organized and contain many complex chemical substances. 2) All living things contain one or more cells 3) All living things use energy. 4) Living things have a definite form and have a limited size. 5) Living things grow. 6) Living things respond to changes in the environment. 7) Living things can reproduce. 8) Living things eventually die.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22180979 - 09/02/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you live near a Tractor Supply co, that's where I get my oats. Cheap as the dickens. Putting foil under the lid band.... I dunno. It's a good idea, sort of, but it's probably going to fail because if you PC a totally sealed jar, which the foil would attempt to do, the internal pressure change is intense and something's gotta give. Would also be a pain in the ass in general. I'd focus on greener pastures.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: Achillita]
#22181003 - 09/02/15 10:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Achillita said: Rye grain is definitely the easiest and one of the best grains IME.
I would say it's one of the easiest....my WBS prep is pretty easy, just rinse, soak, strain, PC.....no simmer, no boil...so technically it's easier than rye. 
The technique is key.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: Inocuole]
#22181013 - 09/02/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I put foil under the bands doing pf tek one time didn't cause any problem with a vacuum or anything but didn't work out either. I don't remember it was so long ago but I believe I was also using micro pore tape and the foil bonded to the tape and caused a big mess. Like I said earlier though for some reason I found that using less foil helped. If you use a little as in tiny bit less water, elevate your jars up out of the water and use pc properly as described earlier you should be able to reduce moisture getting into jars. If not prevent it all together. Use the minimum heat that it takes to maintain 15 psi and vent steam for 5-10 minutes before putting the weight on. If you are still getting water into jars after making these changes than maybe its a sign you need to skip it altogether and just go to grains.
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gizmo1



Registered: 06/15/11
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Loc: FREEDOM
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22181019 - 09/02/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pussyfart just reminded me too. If you use that tek posted earlier for prepping WBS I would skip rinsing the grain after simmering. The heat and steam will help to dry the surface of the grain. If you are getting slimy grains like it says in the tek than the outside of grains are not dry enough. You want the outside pretty much completely dry you moisture should be inside of the grain not outside.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22181045 - 09/02/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So... I was just doing some quarter pint jars with agar in them in the PC and one of them completely wet the filter and filled the jar up all the way with liquid. I'm pretty sure this was the bottom jar, and it also happens to be the one jar whose lid I didn't score with a knife before I applied silicone to attach my SFD cutout. So, apparently it's a pressure cooker thing and it happens to small jars too close to the bottom and having a compromised filter may be a major factor. I think mine might've done that because I stacked two other jars on top of the filter and probably forced the pressure to vent elsewhere.
I don't have stuff like this regularly happen to me but it's funny that it should happen while I'm posting in this thread. Biggest thing is definitely keep the little jars up. Quart jars don't have this problem.
Assuming fate did this to me as an example for you, you'll have to thank it while I EVER SO HUMBLY re-make that lid.
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shellzenone
Zen



Registered: 12/11/14
Posts: 688
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: gizmo1]
#22181063 - 09/02/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you're doing of jars, you only need to put enough water to barely touch the bottom of your jars. You'll only be running the pc for 10-15 mins! There's no reason you need 'an inch above the first layer'. Try using less water and just do one jar to test if it works. If you're still getting water in the jars, then it's your prepping you need to work on.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: shellzenone]
#22181067 - 09/02/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shellzenone said: You'll only be running the pc for 10-15 mins!
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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shellzenone
Zen



Registered: 12/11/14
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: PussyFart]
#22181115 - 09/02/15 11:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It takes 5-15 minutes to get up to pressure, so it's baisicly steaming during that time. Same when it's turned off. Takes time to depressurize. I used to never measure the time for pf cakes, but my whole point is that the water doesn't have to be that high.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
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Re: Pressure cooking problems [Re: Inocuole]
#22181131 - 09/02/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wrapping the little jars all the way around is a bad idea. The water will percolate up in between the foil and glass and fill the jar. Do not have any jars sitting in the water. And only wrap the foil down to the glass bump below the band. Cakes will cook and the water content inside changes.
Also and most importantly. Your pc is off gassing too much. Anyone with an aa sterilizer can tell you how much dryer items in the sterilizer are versus a pc. Having your weight jiggling so much is bad. Most directions say a few jiggles a min.
Here is what happens. I forget the scientific names. The water becomes steam. It stays in suspension due to temp and mainly pressure. When your pc jiggles it loses pressure and water droplets form. Steam that has entered your jars has now turned back to water. This is happening hundreds of times in your brf which can not handle more water. This happens to jars with grain also but they can usually handle another tbs of water or so. This is why I pc brf jars at under 15 psi with my weight barely moving.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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