|
Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22191157 - 09/05/15 12:53 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said: If you're a US citizen, I don't think there will be anything to worry about, in fact most Americans would be welling to sacrifice a small inconvenience for the effort to remove these illegals.
The real tyranny is being invaded in your own country, their removal will be liberating both economically and culturally.
I really wouldn't get caught up in the logistics, it's not going to take detective work to find them. 
I'm not willing to give up any of my Liberty or rights for this cause. Logistics or management of the supplies and transport required for this operation is very on spot and important in relation to this issue. The handling of this operation would be major in importance if it will cause you to have loss of rights or liberty's.
After all, the definition of liberty is as follows - Personal freedom from servitude, confinement or oppression. - freedom from arbitrary or despotic control
Why would I want to allow my Government to oppress me more than it has?
I'm not sure why any one would want to enable despotic control upon the people.
It would be arbitrary to allow such means: Based on or subject to individual discretion or preference or sometimes impulse or caprice.<<<<
"It would be arbitrary to allow such means"
Nope, simple logic would work.
"subject to individual discretion or preference"
God forbid someone used commonsense and discretion. 
Are you in support of a authoritarian state of Government?
Let me know if I'm understanding you wrong, but you are saying lets allow Authority figures to use common sense and trust them not to abuse their power? If so, best of luck.
Caprice means "A sudden desire". Under the idea of "sacrifice a small inconvenience" they could have a sudden desire which would be allowing authorities / Government into homes with out warrants or probable cause, just to take a hold of a illegal immigrant, they could do so. The fact is tho it's never going to happen, it doesn't matter if Mr.Trump takes office or any one else. If it ever did the government would be sued big time. Its never going to happen legally unless were under a authoritarian power. You have to have a warrant or probably cause. We do not live under a authoritarian government or martial law 24/7.
You sound just like the cops who say "Let me search your vehicle, you've got nothing to hide or be worried about right?". Sorry mane but my rights are mine, I don't have to let any one search my house or my vehicle with out a warrant or probable cause and thats never going to change.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22191645 - 09/05/15 07:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said: If you're a US citizen, I don't think there will be anything to worry about, in fact most Americans would be welling to sacrifice a small inconvenience for the effort to remove these illegals.
The real tyranny is being invaded in your own country, their removal will be liberating both economically and culturally.
I really wouldn't get caught up in the logistics, it's not going to take detective work to find them. 
I'm not willing to give up any of my Liberty or rights for this cause. Logistics or management of the supplies and transport required for this operation is very on spot and important in relation to this issue. The handling of this operation would be major in importance if it will cause you to have loss of rights or liberty's.
After all, the definition of liberty is as follows - Personal freedom from servitude, confinement or oppression. - freedom from arbitrary or despotic control
Why would I want to allow my Government to oppress me more than it has?
I'm not sure why any one would want to enable despotic control upon the people.
It would be arbitrary to allow such means: Based on or subject to individual discretion or preference or sometimes impulse or caprice.<<<<
"It would be arbitrary to allow such means"
Nope, simple logic would work.
"subject to individual discretion or preference"
God forbid someone used commonsense and discretion. 
Are you in support of a authoritarian state of Government?
Let me know if I'm understanding you wrong, but you are saying lets allow Authority figures to use common sense and trust them not to abuse their power? If so, best of luck.
Caprice means "A sudden desire". Under the idea of "sacrifice a small inconvenience" they could have a sudden desire which would be allowing authorities / Government into homes with out warrants or probable cause, just to take a hold of a illegal immigrant, they could do so. The fact is tho it's never going to happen, it doesn't matter if Mr.Trump takes office or any one else. If it ever did the government would be sued big time. Its never going to happen legally unless were under a authoritarian power. You have to have a warrant or probably cause. We do not live under a authoritarian government or martial law 24/7.
You sound just like the cops who say "Let me search your vehicle, you've got nothing to hide or be worried about right?". Sorry mane but my rights are mine, I don't have to let any one search my house or my vehicle with out a warrant or probable cause and thats never going to change.
The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't. Don't we already deported illegals, how do we do it without being a "authoritarian government"? Very easily.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22191681 - 09/05/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I believe that even illegals and other non citizens do have some rights under the constitution, that's why they want to sneak into here. But, since the illegals have committed a crime by breaking our laws when entering, they can be treated as criminals and kept in jail until deported. Of course with the goof in office they just turn them loose but that will change if trump ever gets in.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Stonehenge]
#22191737 - 09/05/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: I believe that even illegals and other non citizens do have some rights under the constitution, that's why they want to sneak into here. But, since the illegals have committed a crime by breaking our laws when entering, they can be treated as criminals and kept in jail until deported. Of course with the goof in office they just turn them loose but that will change if trump ever gets in.
Either way, a country doesn't have to be a "authoritarian state" to maintain its sovereignty.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
#22191884 - 09/05/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: I think a lot of people don't understand that many undocumented workers do pay taxes, if they get payroll via a bogus social security number they pay taxes.
ok, so let me clarify this, let's say you're working, you're earning $20k per year, you have a couple of kids you'll be claiming on your taxes when you file, this will result in you getting about $5000-7000 in the form of a refund after you file, now let's say that some illegal is using your SSN, he's paying in on the $30k per year he's earning as a brick mason, well to the IRS you're earning $50k, that's a higher tax bracket that would reduce your income tax return greatly, now that money you were going to use to get another car or to repair your car has evaporated, what's more, you now are subject to fines and penalties, some of which could result in your going to prison for tax evasion and all of that because you were unaware that someone was using your social security number
but wait, there's more. since you're only making $20/yr, you have two kids, you're also on government assistance, all that extra income starts showing up and suddenly the department of human resources cuts your foodstamps and stops any other government assistance you were receiving because on the books you're making far too much to be receiving all this free money so now how will you feed your kids, how will you maintain your residence, that extra $400/month was what was allowing you to scrape by
let's also look at an ever increasing problem, more and more young people are going on disability, let's say that you are as well, maybe it's a crazy check, maybe it's from a traffic accident you had a few years ago that let you in constant pain and unable to work, your only drawing $800/month, your budget is tight and you're not allowed to take a job to supplement your income but suddenly, extra money starts showing up under your SSN, money that shows that you're working at a meat processing plant in Alabama, well the Social Security administration is wondering why you're collecting disability while working so they cut your check off completely... now you're completely fucked because that money you depended on has now dried up
Quote:
Just seems no one ever mentions this.
it's mentioned, it's mentioned a lot, but no one seems to want to look at the consequences of the identity theft, things such as that illegal with your SSN applying for a couple of credit cards in your name, having electricity, telephone and other services established on YOUR credit, something that completely fucks your credit when they decide to skip out on those bills you know nothing about
so yeah, some illegals pay taxes as zappa has mentioned already in this thread
but what does it cost citizens
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22191888 - 09/05/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said: The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't.
false
|
Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22192192 - 09/05/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't. Don't we already deported illegals, how do we do it without being a "authoritarian government"? Very easily.
As already stated they do have rights. Scroll threw my old post's or read this screen shot - This is how it's done with out a authoritarian Government :

First post on this page - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22175885/page/1/fpart/6/vc/1#22175885
It's due process.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22194717 - 09/05/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't. Don't we already deported illegals, how do we do it without being a "authoritarian government"? Very easily.
As already stated they do have rights. Scroll threw my old post's or read this screen shot - This is how it's done with out a authoritarian Government :

First post on this page - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22175885/page/1/fpart/6/vc/1#22175885
It's due process.
Due process is a relative term, they can argue their case outside of the US, they aren't getting lengthy hearings once the process starts, that's pure fantasy land. You're living in the past, things are going to change.
|
Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22195033 - 09/05/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't. Don't we already deported illegals, how do we do it without being a "authoritarian government"? Very easily.
As already stated they do have rights. Scroll threw my old post's or read this screen shot - This is how it's done with out a authoritarian Government :

First post on this page - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22175885/page/1/fpart/6/vc/1#22175885
It's due process.
Due process is a relative term, they can argue their case outside of the US, they aren't getting lengthy hearings once the process starts, that's pure fantasy land. You're living in the past, things are going to change.
I showed my sources. So you can argue all you want but until you do the same to explain your self it means nothing. The entire internet can read this and see that. Maybe even a definition?
You do not have to believe how things are handled and people are processed. However you have no sources. I will tell you qman, in life you may not believe its hot out side but that don't mean ya ain't gonna sweat when you start mowing the lawn. It's your choice.
I suggest you do some research on the Fourth Amendment.
You can think want you want but Government, scholars, professors, lawyers, even public school teachers will tell you there is no way we are getting rid of the Fourth Amendment.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22196235 - 09/06/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
The big difference, US citizens have constitutional rights, illegals don't. Don't we already deported illegals, how do we do it without being a "authoritarian government"? Very easily.
As already stated they do have rights. Scroll threw my old post's or read this screen shot - This is how it's done with out a authoritarian Government :

First post on this page - http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22175885/page/1/fpart/6/vc/1#22175885
It's due process.
Due process is a relative term, they can argue their case outside of the US, they aren't getting lengthy hearings once the process starts, that's pure fantasy land. You're living in the past, things are going to change.
I showed my sources. So you can argue all you want but until you do the same to explain your self it means nothing. The entire internet can read this and see that. Maybe even a definition?
You do not have to believe how things are handled and people are processed. However you have no sources. I will tell you qman, in life you may not believe its hot out side but that don't mean ya ain't gonna sweat when you start mowing the lawn. It's your choice.
I suggest you do some research on the Fourth Amendment.
You can think want you want but Government, scholars, professors, lawyers, even public school teachers will tell you there is no way we are getting rid of the Fourth Amendment.
When did I suggest about "getting rid of the Fourth Amendment?
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22196250 - 09/06/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
When they catch the bums, they will get a choice, voluntary deportation or sit in jail for up to a year while the paperwork is being done in the courts, then involuntary deportation to a shit destination of our choice. Or they can go to the shit destination now, most will take now rather than sit in prison.
And if we crack down on employers who hire illegals, the illegals will quit coming and will in fact go back. If we stop remittances, they will go back. No employment and no remittances means no reason to come over and no reason to stay.
Then like magic more jobs open up for americans. Wages go up without some govt interference in the min wage like the socialists want, they go up naturally.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 2 days, 1 hour
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Stonehenge]
#22196726 - 09/06/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: I believe that even illegals and other non citizens do have some rights under the constitution, that's why they want to sneak into here. But, since the illegals have committed a crime by breaking our laws when entering, they can be treated as criminals and kept in jail until deported. Of course with the goof in office they just turn them loose but that will change if trump ever gets in.
That "goof" in office has deported more illegals than dubya ever did.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: lowbrow]
#22196739 - 09/06/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: I believe that even illegals and other non citizens do have some rights under the constitution, that's why they want to sneak into here. But, since the illegals have committed a crime by breaking our laws when entering, they can be treated as criminals and kept in jail until deported. Of course with the goof in office they just turn them loose but that will change if trump ever gets in.
That "goof" in office has deported more illegals than dubya ever did.
turning them back at the border isnt actually deportation
|
lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,662
Last seen: 2 days, 1 hour
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22196853 - 09/06/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: lowbrow]
#22196872 - 09/06/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Bush was a fucking squish on this too. As was Reagan. 2 million in 7 years when there is 10 to 20 million here? Not even close to enough.
--------------------
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
#22196984 - 09/06/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Vote for trump and he will change all that. No one else is even talking about getting rid of illegals, except talking against it. They are all wussies afraid of losing a few votes.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: qman]
#22197324 - 09/06/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
When did I suggest about "getting rid of the Fourth Amendment?
Do you remember our previous postings?
Quote:
qman said: "rounding them up would not be possible"
We know where they live, this isn't rocket science. We may not get 100% of them, but 90% would be very easy.
Remember we discussed this issue, involving the US needing a impossible amount of resources for stake outs or removing the need for a warrant so they can find a legal way into the homes of the 90% to get them out of where ever their staying/ or currently at?
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said: I mean for example let's say I'm housing a illegal immigrant. You think I'm going to let the police or some force in with out a warrant? Do you understand how many warrants they will have to get. They can't just bust into some peoples homes and take them away.
Oh what, Is some government force gonna sit around in their cars and drink coffee to watch for them walking down the streets to bust em? Where are all these resources going to come from to do something like that.. There's not enough enforcement to make that happen that way.
If they make it to where they don't need a warrant now all the sudden the Government can come into your home simply with the "We think your housing a illegal immigrant" excuse.. because you had your Mexican friends over.
That implies more Tyranny than the drug war.
Reason for edit - Added information.
If you're a US citizen, I don't think there will be anything to worry about, in fact most Americans would be welling to sacrifice a small inconvenience for the effort to remove these illegals.
The real tyranny is being invaded in your own country, their removal will be liberating both economically and culturally.
I really wouldn't get caught up in the logistics, it's not going to take detective work to find them. 
How would you expect to do this with out getting rid of the fourth amendment? What, do you think they can just exclude it when/where ever illegal immigrants are involved/concerned?
|
Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


Registered: 08/23/15
Posts: 1,308
Loc: Colorado, USA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Stonehenge]
#22197369 - 09/06/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Vote for trump and he will change all that. No one else is even talking about getting rid of illegals, except talking against it. They are all wussies afraid of losing a few votes.
You should post some links to some pages (not just political speeches) on is solid plans to take care of the issue. Maybe he has a website? Anything?
If you want me or any one else to vote for Trump it really would not hurt you to show some sources to his solution(s). I believe firmly we need a Statesman as president, not a politician. How are you going to convince me he is a statesman? Even if he is a statesman, show me his wisdom in the management of public affairs. Something. Any thing.
I hear many of my friends holler "vote for trump" he wants this, he wants that. However no one shows me his solid plans to handle the situations such as illegal immigrants.
|
qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 hour, 32 minutes
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22197508 - 09/06/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
qman said:
When did I suggest about "getting rid of the Fourth Amendment?
Do you remember our previous postings?
Quote:
qman said: "rounding them up would not be possible"
We know where they live, this isn't rocket science. We may not get 100% of them, but 90% would be very easy.
Remember we discussed this issue, involving the US needing a impossible amount of resources for stake outs or removing the need for a warrant so they can find a legal way into the homes of the 90% to get them out of where ever their staying/ or currently at?
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said: I mean for example let's say I'm housing a illegal immigrant. You think I'm going to let the police or some force in with out a warrant? Do you understand how many warrants they will have to get. They can't just bust into some peoples homes and take them away.
Oh what, Is some government force gonna sit around in their cars and drink coffee to watch for them walking down the streets to bust em? Where are all these resources going to come from to do something like that.. There's not enough enforcement to make that happen that way.
If they make it to where they don't need a warrant now all the sudden the Government can come into your home simply with the "We think your housing a illegal immigrant" excuse.. because you had your Mexican friends over.
That implies more Tyranny than the drug war.
Reason for edit - Added information.
If you're a US citizen, I don't think there will be anything to worry about, in fact most Americans would be welling to sacrifice a small inconvenience for the effort to remove these illegals.
The real tyranny is being invaded in your own country, their removal will be liberating both economically and culturally.
I really wouldn't get caught up in the logistics, it's not going to take detective work to find them. 
How would you expect to do this with out getting rid of the fourth amendment? What, do you think they can just exclude it when/where ever illegal immigrants are involved/concerned?
People do leave their homes, it's only you who is insisting on warrants and stakeouts.
Again, take away the freebies, their illegal jobs, and the anchor baby policy and they will leave on their own.
Why you have this vision of knocking down doors is your issue, unfortunately someone who looks Hispanic will have to deal with a few inconveniences, so be it.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: lowbrow]
#22197557 - 09/06/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
lowbrow said: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117412/deportations-under-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants
http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2014/05/02/5-things-obamas-record-on-deportations/
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
turning them back at the border isnt actually deportation
Nope, that was dubya's game, not Obama's.
catch and release is the obama policy, the 'deported' illegals is because of the higher influx and due to that a higher catch rate, this results in higher deportation rates. if they arent caught at the border, this is his policy
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/3/editorial-obamas-catch-and-release/
obama has made it very clear he doesnt intend to deport any illegals from within the US and even fast tracked his illegal aunt to becoming a citizen
|
|