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D.M.T
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: my3rdeye] 1
#22182705 - 09/03/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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my3rdeye said:
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Dr.Wongburger said:
Which causes/is more crime. Illegal immigrants or illegal drugs?
?
Drugs don't cause crime, prohibition does. Alcohol causes a fair amount of crime but all the other drugs the crime is to get money to pay the high prices of prohibition. There is almost no crime actually cause by the drugs.
If drugs don't cause crime then neither does alcohol. If alcohol causes crime then so do drugs.
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Dr.Wongburger
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Prisoner#1]
#22182731 - 09/03/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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Dr.Wongburger said: However NO ONE wants to get rid of their illegal drugs!!!!! Or so it seems.
Which causes/is more crime. Illegal immigrants or illegal drugs?
drugs dont cause crime any more than forks cause obesity
people cause crimes
illegal aliens are people
now for this...
let me ask, if illegals are here illegally and they work under the table, the only taxes they pay are sales tax since they obviously wont be filing a 1099
isnt that money from the government coffers?
if the illegals are working illegally but paying into the system via payroll deduct, how exactly are they doing it, wouldnt they need a social security number? the dont issue SSNs to illegals so wouldnt they be having to use the information for someone else? isnt that identity theft? as I recall, that's a criminal act, a felony in most if not all states... so now we have illegals adding to the crime rate
now i those SSNs the illegals are using belong to living people doesnt that fuck those people on things such as their SSI benefits, disability and in the case of low income people, their welfare/food stamps that they may need to support their children, those that are working and paying in are now paying for 2 jobs which places them in a higher tax bracket that they're unaware of because they arent actually working that second job, now the IRS places liens against their property and files charges for tax evasion in which hey have to pay a lawyer to get shit straightened out... so these illegal now have a felony they're committing and they're fucking citizens... felonious fuckery
so wait... they arent working under the table, they arent going the identity theft route, so that means thy must surely be collecting some government benefit, I know, the feds tell us that's illegal but those little anchor babies manage to get their parents on government assistance because the babies are citizens. now these illegals are collecting government aid which could be going to help those in need... again, it's a crime
oh, so they arent working under or over the table, they arent collecting governemnt assistance, then how exactly do they make their money? I mean I'm not aware of anyone that's got charitable organizations supporting them to the extent of paying the bills, feeding, clothing, housing and providing them transportation, of coourse if you know that 20 million of them are being supported in this way then maybe you should hook us up with that info because the only other option would be criminal activity such as robbery/burglary/drugs
once more, criminal activity from illegals, many of whom have anchor babies that they exploit to keep committing the crimes without deportation
tell us again how illegals dont contribute to the crime rate
tell us again how they arent hurting citizens
I feel ya, I feel ya.
Here's some stuff within relation to drugs and crime. on Wiki :
"In 2002, in the U.S. about a quarter of convicted property and drug offenders in local jails had committed their crimes to get money for drugs, compared to 5% of violent and public order offenders. Among State prisoners in 2004 the pattern was similar, with property (30%) and drug offenders (26%) more likely to commit their crimes for drug money than violent (10%) and public-order offenders (7%). In Federal prisons property offenders (11%) were less than half as likely as drug offenders (25%) to report drug money as a motive in their offenses.
In 2004, 17% of U.S. State prisoners and 18% of Federal inmates said they committed their current offense to obtain money for drugs. These percentages represent a slight increase for Federal prisoners (16% in 1997) and a slight decrease for State prisoners (19% in 1997)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug-related_crime
This is only documented crime, not unseen crime of course.
Here is Crime in relation to immigration. There does seem to be some confusion on the subject -
A 2008 study by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that, "...on average, between 2000 and 2005, cities that had a higher share of recent immigrants (those arriving between 2000 and 2005) saw their crime rates fall further than cities with a lower share" but adds, "As with most studies, we do not have ideal data. This lack of data restricts the questions we will be able to answer. In particular, we cannot focus on the undocumented population explicitly".[181] In a study released by the same Institute, immigrants were ten times less likely to be incarcerated than native born Americans.[182]
Explanations for the lower incarceration rates of immigrants include:
Legal immigrants are screened for criminality prior to entry. Legal and illegal immigrants who commit serious crimes are being deported and therefore are unable to commit more crimes (unlike their US counterparts who remain in the US). They are unlikely to become "career criminals" moving in and out of the prison system. In the last 10 years, 816,000 criminal aliens have been removed from the United States. This does not include immigrants whose only offense was living or working illegally in the United States.[183] Immigrants understand the severe consequences of being arrested given their legal status (i.e. threat of deportation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Crime
Here is information geared towards illegal immigration in specific -
A 2008 report by the non-partisan Public Policy Institute of California analyzes crime and immigration in California. Since most criminals are young adults, the study considered the proportion of foreign-born young adults in the general population compared to those in the prison population. The researchers found that, while foreign born young adults represented about 35% of California's population, they represented only about 17% of the prison population. The study concludes, "immigrants are underrepresented in California prisons compared to their representation in the overall population."[179]
In a report published by the Congressional Research Service, illegal immigrants who have been released from custody have gone on to commit 16,226 other crimes between 2008 and mid-2011, including 19 murders, 142 sex crimes, and thousands of drunk-driving offenses, drug offenses, and felonies; roughly one in six illegal immigrants who were released were later arrested for committing crimes.[180] In a 2013 report by the Government Accountability Office, it reported that it had released just under sixty thousand aliens (59,837), just under three thousand (2,837) were convicted sex offenders.[181] In 2014, just over thirty thousand (30,558) aliens with criminal records were released back into the United States, including 250 with homicide convictions.[182] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Crime
I suppose even if we did/do look at drugs as the cause for crime or we just look at drug related crime in general or possession of a drug being a crime its self, it would be difficult to even compare the two, considering the illegal immigrants that commit crime and are caught are not incarcerated for more serious crime in general. However maybe there is another solution of a way to view this?
Are there more people possessing illegal drugs than there are illegal immigrants and the crimes they commit? Damn it I guess ill have to find a way to research this. Before I do that tho I need to make my self some coffee... ill be back.
Reason for edit - I added information
Edited by Dr.Wongburger (09/03/15 12:03 PM)
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ReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
#22182734 - 09/03/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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ReposadoXochipilli said: I think a lot of people don't understand that many undocumented workers do pay taxes, if they get payroll via a bogus social security number they pay taxes.
Just seems no one ever mentions this. I agree with kroniko they need to be able to achieve citizenship through the right way, maybe that way needs to be adjusted.
What is happening in Europe right now is the same thing we have going on here, they flee their homes because they want a chance at a real life.
People in low wage jobs do not pay enough in taxes to make up for what they consume in services and like Pris said if they are paying taxes they have stolen someone's identification. Further, around here, illegals in construction work for cash.
just pointing out the fact that many do pay taxes, often the social security numbers they use are from deceased people as well.
seems to be a point many people refuse to acknowledge. i agree with you about day labor construction but there really is no difference if jim is working under the table vs juan. hell that is why i stick to food and beverage is about 70% of my wages are unclaimed...
i understand your points and don't disagree that it is a problem, just not sure how the proper way to effectively fix it would be. denying half of the situation and deciding to kick them all out is not a real solution, even if it was they would all be right back within a year at the longest.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
#22182767 - 09/03/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you kick them out wages at the bottom will rise immediately. Government costs would decline (although I doubt the fucks will give any money back to the taxpayers) through less services.
There are two groups that want to keep them. The Dem Party who likes to get the bum vote and the Chamber of Commerce who likes it because they mistakenly believe the illegals help business owners. No, they fucking don't. You want to help usiness in America? Get rid of the Dept of Labor and change the idiotic tax system.
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Dr.Wongburger
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Asante]
#22182824 - 09/03/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Asante said: Illegal Immigrants and Methamphetamine both trim your lawn and paint your fence 
Hey man that's pretty funny. I know its true tho. hehe.
I have heard story's of fiends doing any job imaginable for the next batch. hehe
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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
#22182838 - 09/03/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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ReposadoXochipilli said: I think a lot of people don't understand that many undocumented workers do pay taxes, if they get payroll via a bogus social security number they pay taxes.
Just seems no one ever mentions this. I agree with kroniko they need to be able to achieve citizenship through the right way, maybe that way needs to be adjusted.
What is happening in Europe right now is the same thing we have going on here, they flee their homes because they want a chance at a real life.
People in low wage jobs do not pay enough in taxes to make up for what they consume in services and like Pris said if they are paying taxes they have stolen someone's identification. Further, around here, illegals in construction work for cash.
just pointing out the fact that many do pay taxes, often the social security numbers they use are from deceased people as well.
seems to be a point many people refuse to acknowledge. i agree with you about day labor construction but there really is no difference if jim is working under the table vs juan. hell that is why i stick to food and beverage is about 70% of my wages are unclaimed...
i understand your points and don't disagree that it is a problem, just not sure how the proper way to effectively fix it would be. denying half of the situation and deciding to kick them all out is not a real solution, even if it was they would all be right back within a year at the longest.
Even tho the people might be dead I don't like the idea of the illegal immigrants using their social security numbers. Seem's to bother me. Like its just dirty or disrespectful.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22183232 - 09/03/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is also a felony.
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Dr.Wongburger
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
#22183250 - 09/03/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: It is also a felony.
That to. It seem's to bother me more of how disrespectful it it. I mean imagine if you died. Your family is still around somewhere.. maybe they moved. Then some one comes around and uses your info. It's like unrest. Disgust.
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koods
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger] 1
#22183260 - 09/03/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is also a felony.
That to. It seem's to bother me more of how disrespectful it it. I mean imagine if you died. Your family is still around somewhere.. maybe they moved. Then some one comes around and uses your info. It's like unrest. Disgust.
This is an emotional argument. This is the problem with debating illegal immigration. One side is arguing from emotion (don't like brown people, etc.) the other side from facts.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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zappaisgod
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: koods] 1
#22183276 - 09/03/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't give a fuck what color they are. I want them all out including the Poles Irish and Ukrainians that are rife here.
This has nothing to do with race or country of origin. It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
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koods
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22183282 - 09/03/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
Emotion. Emotion. Emotion.
The fact is they are integral to our economy and kicking them out would be spiting ourselves.
Alrhough, the economic collapse you could then blame on Obama is probably just too enticing.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/03/15 02:13 PM)
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Bitter Cactus
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
#22183288 - 09/03/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't give a fuck what color they are. I want them all out including the Poles Irish and Ukrainians that are rife here.
This has nothing to do with race or country of origin. It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
immigranthurt
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koods
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Konyap]
#22183314 - 09/03/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: No one wants to smuggle drugs up the ass either
Speak for youreslf
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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zappaisgod
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: koods]
#22183326 - 09/03/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
Emotion. Emotion. Emotion.
The fact is they are integral to our economy and kicking them out would be spiting ourselves.
Alrhough, the economic collapse you could then blame on Obama is probably just too enticing.
There is nothing emotional about it. They are cheaters. That is a fact.
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qman
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: koods] 1
#22183339 - 09/03/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
Emotion. Emotion. Emotion.
The fact is they are integral to our economy and kicking them out would be spiting ourselves.
Alrhough, the economic collapse you could then blame on Obama is probably just too enticing.
People like you just want open borders, you use the "economic collapse" hysteria to justify your extreme position.
"integral to our economy"
Cheap untaxed labor is NOT necessary, what a joke. Just admit it, you think everyone should be allowed to enter and the US and stay forever.
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Dr.Wongburger
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: koods]
#22183345 - 09/03/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is also a felony.
That to. It seem's to bother me more of how disrespectful it it. I mean imagine if you died. Your family is still around somewhere.. maybe they moved. Then some one comes around and uses your info. It's like unrest. Disgust.
This is an emotional argument. This is the problem with debating illegal immigration. One side is arguing from emotion (don't like brown people, etc.) the other side from facts.
I mean I hold a libertarian stand point on this. I think its a on going thing and we can only strive to reach solutions. Which there never may be one. I think rounding up over millions of people to deport them is impossible. We would need a authoritarian state to even attempt. I do see the need to take away some benefits. I do not see why we guarantee citizenship to them if they are born here from illegals. We already have a list of exceptions of when some one is born here they do not become a citizen.
I feel like disrespecting the dead in general is just wrong. To me it would not matter if illegal immigrants did the act of using a dead persons information or of the average joe down the street did it. I see what you are saying with emotion being involved, however we can only try out best right?
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D.M.T
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: koods]
#22183410 - 09/03/15 02:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
It has to do with invasion and disrespect and parasitism.
Emotion. Emotion. Emotion.
The fact is they are integral to our economy and kicking them out would be spiting ourselves.
Alrhough, the economic collapse you could then blame on Obama is probably just too enticing.
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Dr.Wongburger said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It is also a felony.
That to. It seem's to bother me more of how disrespectful it it. I mean imagine if you died. Your family is still around somewhere.. maybe they moved. Then some one comes around and uses your info. It's like unrest. Disgust.
This is an emotional argument. This is the problem with debating illegal immigration. One side is arguing from emotion (don't like brown people, etc.) the other side from facts.
Well, actually it's illegal because identity theft of a deceased person is an easy way to get bogus tax returns without even working or paying taxes. They can just take back the taxes they put in and even steal a little extra from the taxpayer too.
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: D.M.T]
#22183468 - 09/03/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Everyone gtfo.
I belong here as I was born here. That's what the last guy thought a while back as well. Doesn't always work out.
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Dr.Wongburger
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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: LobsterSauce]
#22183483 - 09/03/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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LobsterSauce said: Everyone gtfo.
I belong here as I was born here. That's what the last guy thought a while back as well. Doesn't always work out.
The idea is if some one was born and raised here, deportation is a insane idea because it would be like sending a person to a foreign nation. This is took into account. A Libertarian view would not stand for that idea- deporting a person who might of even came here at 5 or 6 years old and was raised here.
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Dr.Wongburger
Yes!!


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Re: Every one wants to get rid of the illegal immigrants [Re: Dr.Wongburger]
#22183496 - 09/03/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Earlier I posted a video if you go back to the first page which (not always the same for all libertarians) but for the most part tells of a strong libertarian stand point of the situation.
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