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InvisiblehTx
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Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be?
    #22173881 - 09/01/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It seems the more research that surrounds psychedelics, the more safe it seems to call these substances nootropics..that is they seem to enhance brain function, even after single-use.

I know there is a huge nootropic surge in popularity, and many are trying all sorts of new chemicals with the intent to increase brain function.

It seems psychedelics are the way to go if one is into nootropics...as they have more solid science behind them than nootropics do.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22173888 - 09/01/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Adderall is what nootropics aspire to be.

Nootropics are overpriced placebo powders you order off the net.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22173921 - 09/01/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lol.. Nootropics are not placebo... And they are cheap as fuck...

They potentiate the fuck out of psychedelics actually. They makes shrooms way fucking stronger. It's weird..

And you can't study on psychedelics, that's a whole other class of chemical anyway.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22173925 - 09/01/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Adderall is what nootropics aspire to be.

Nootropics are overpriced placebo powders you order off the net.



LOL BC you have a very unscientific way of stating your opinion. It makes it hard to really have a proper conversation/arguement. Even if your opinion is valid at times, you need to state it properly

But to the OP; nootropics help heal your brain, and help one function in day to day life. psychedelics are about dissolving the ego. Nootropics are just a more multi-dimensional and neuroprotective version of caffiene. Way overhyped, but still legitamate


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22173962 - 09/01/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nootropics are mostly overpriced tulips.
Some of it works, but most of it is so subtle that you're just paying money for the placebo.

I choose not to fux with them.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #22174075 - 09/01/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174107 - 09/01/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.



1) you made the claim, and hence you need to provide evidence. Show me evidence that every study done on piracetam that compares piracetam to placebo is wrong?
2) noone stated at any point that piracetam was as effective as adderall. Adderall is miles more effective
3) doctors dont prescribe it because it adderall is euphoric, more effective, makes more money, and is addictive (indirectly makes more money)
4) piracetam is effective for some and not for others. You are in the "other" category. Im sure there are many people on the planet who were alcoholics. Is that evidence that alcohol will fuck you no matter what? No
5) piracetam is suggested over adderall because adderall is known to be neurotoxic
6) once again, sleeping, excercising, and eating better are all MILES better than piracetam. Noone argued that. The question is, does piracetam give a noticable edge to people? If we had two groups of people who had the same genetics, sleeping, eating, and health habits, and one group was given piracetam, would that group perform better? And the answer is a clear YES

Jesus christ man. Your claims are reasonable and a lot of times even correct. You just state it so unscientifically. You made no clear scientifically stated hypothesis. Just irrelevant comparisons to adderall


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #22174211 - 09/01/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because we're in the pub not the chem subforum.


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OfflineSaulGoodman
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174232 - 09/01/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: SaulGoodman]
    #22174241 - 09/01/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174275 - 09/01/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.



1) you made the claim, and hence you need to provide evidence. Show me evidence that every study done on piracetam that compares piracetam to placebo is wrong?
2) noone stated at any point that piracetam was as effective as adderall. Adderall is miles more effective
3) doctors dont prescribe it because it adderall is euphoric, more effective, makes more money, and is addictive (indirectly makes more money)
4) piracetam is effective for some and not for others. You are in the "other" category. Im sure there are many people on the planet who were alcoholics. Is that evidence that alcohol will fuck you no matter what? No
5) piracetam is suggested over adderall because adderall is known to be neurotoxic
6) once again, sleeping, excercising, and eating better are all MILES better than piracetam. Noone argued that. The question is, does piracetam give a noticable edge to people? If we had two groups of people who had the same genetics, sleeping, eating, and health habits, and one group was given piracetam, would that group perform better? And the answer is a clear YES

Jesus christ man. Your claims are reasonable and a lot of times even correct. You just state it so unscientifically. You made no clear scientifically stated hypothesis. Just irrelevant comparisons to adderall




Jesus christ dude I'm not writing a history paper I just stated my opinion on the Pub.

Modafinil is legit though, that's an actual stimluant. I think you can get it prescribed too?


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174288 - 09/01/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174584 - 09/01/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?



Yes lol. This is why you sound silly making claims that it doesn't work


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174784 - 09/01/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?



Yes lol. This is why you sound silly making claims that it doesn't work




Show me a clinical trial with actual people that show it improves memory and all that stuff for piracetam or one of the racetams.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174950 - 09/01/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:


Show me a clinical trial with actual people that show it improves memory and all that stuff for piracetam or one of the racetams.




Doubtful you'll find one. Even if you did, the effects are so subtle as to be clinically insignificant.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: badchad]
    #22175541 - 09/01/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432889800518


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/291/1/99.short

Both show the piracetam has SOME effect and we understand the causes of those effects. It's borderline retardation to say piracetam has no effect


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22175557 - 09/01/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432889800518


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/291/1/99.short

Both show the piracetam has SOME effect and we understand the causes of those effects. It's borderline retardation to say piracetam has no effect




First link says improves memory in rats. Last time I checked I am a human, not a rat.

The second study is done with rats, again, I really hope I am not a rat.


I asked for one clinical studies, where actual people take these drugs and have higher scores in tests and memory exams. You pretty much just proved my point that all the hype around nootropics is based on random anecdotes and no clinical research.

/thread


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175568 - 09/01/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22175580 - 09/01/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175656 - 09/01/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.



It's a study regardless like you asked for. You can only see the abstract put its published in a pretty high end journal

In addition I think you don't realize pieacetam is prescribed in Europe for very serious things. Pharmaceuticals rarely prescribe/sell things that don't work like that

Also, you keep mentioning adderall. IMO it's a pointless crutch. You kinda need to keep upping the dosage and then when the dose gets too high, they switch you to another medication. I took it for a year and there's much better ways to solve the problem


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175683 - 09/01/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.



That's an abstract, just a summary of the article. I can see if I have access to the full text though.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175731 - 09/01/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.




It's because it's 40 years old.

But the real question is the interpretation of the results. Subjects on drug were able to recall 0.7 words relative to those on drug. What does that mean in the "real-world"?  Not much I suspect. This is withstanding that no statistics were presented, and the subjects weren't randomized.

The study wouldn't be published in the year 2015.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: badchad]
    #22175741 - 09/01/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

They probably tested less then a hundred people too.

In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. :shrug:


I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




Edited by Bitter Cactus (09/01/15 08:42 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175871 - 09/01/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Celastrus paniculatus is a cool natural nootropic, all the weird synthetic crap scares me to be honest.

In what ways would you consider kratom a nootropic BC?


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: musiclover420]
    #22175887 - 09/01/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I consider kratom a powerful nootropic.

It gives me energy, focus, motivation, helps with physical labour. If I need to do homework a good dose of kratom helps me get shit done.


It is honestly just about as good for my focus and motivation as my vyvanse prescription.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175926 - 09/01/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Definitely very motivating, I have been missing it these past couple days. Coffee sucks in comparison, as does tea. Even if it tastes way better :lol:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22176051 - 09/01/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
They probably tested less then a hundred people too.

In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. :shrug:


I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.



You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22176196 - 09/01/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
They probably tested less then a hundred people too.

In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. :shrug:


I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.



You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims




Ya but to be fair most of the hype around nootropics like piracetam is highly anecdotal.


And since we are on the subject of anecdotal evidence, I am just gonna say that kratom blows piracetam out of the water in terms of nootropic effects. No contest. I would even say coffee blows piracetam out of the water.


--------------------
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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22176439 - 09/01/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You always seem to claim kratom to be better then anything you have ever taken. I do believe opiates enhance studying and test taking but that's off topic. Getting into the science of that is almost ridiculous considering the strength of certain opiates and dosages people take. A small dose of a mild opiate could increase performance.




A few nootropics are indeed real Noopept is basically the only one that I'd put money on. The rest seemed to have just come from no where randomly. There's studies out and all it really is, is 2 amino acids bound to a phenyl ring to cross the BBB.

Adderall doesn't increase Neural Growth Factors or brain-derived neurotrophic factor, they just increase stamina. Same with all amphetamines and stimulants. They just keep you up and able. Caffeine for example. Used to study because it will keep your hand writing. It's not specifically enhancing neuron connections *though they do say coffee is really good for your brain*

Look up the studies on L-Theanine and Caffeine. There's a shit ton and it's all basically saying the two combined enhances performance and multitasking. Throw in Noopept and a stimulant to increase endurance and you have what I made as a stack. (BioFocus).

The people who do crazy 9 chem stacks are just over doing it. Racetams are an actual scientific thing. Noopept isn't even one so idk what you'd call it besides a NGF enhancer.

AS for it's use with hallucinogens I'd be very scared to try them on shrooms because it would probably trick me into thinking i'm on limitless shit and start scribbling nonsense.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Gorlax]
    #22176459 - 09/01/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You can get caffeine and ltheanine from drinking green tea. The benefits are not even that great.

Does noopept have clinical trials to back up your claims?


I really do believe that for studying, memory, focus, and especially ADD low doses of stimulants are proven and not that bad for your brain. Some people are on ADD meds most of their lives and do well.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22176522 - 09/01/15 11:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
They probably tested less then a hundred people too.

In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. :shrug:


I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.



You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims




Ya but to be fair most of the hype around nootropics like piracetam is highly anecdotal.


And since we are on the subject of anecdotal evidence, I am just gonna say that kratom blows piracetam out of the water in terms of nootropic effects. No contest. I would even say coffee blows piracetam out of the water.



I actually agree with you bc. I think you fail to understand that the difference isn't really strong with paracetam. Noticeable, but not strong at all

And kratom and coffee blow paracetam out the water. I stopped using it after about 3 months. But for thst time, it def undid tons of alcohol damage

And a good way you cud prove this; go out for a night of drinking heavy. In the morning take paracetam

It shud remove "brain dead" feeling of the hangover
Quote:

Gorlax said:
You always seem to claim kratom to be better then anything you have ever taken. I do believe opiates enhance studying and test taking but that's off topic. Getting into the science of that is almost ridiculous considering the strength of certain opiates and dosages people take. A small dose of a mild opiate could increase performance.




A few nootropics are indeed real Noopept is basically the only one that I'd put money on. The rest seemed to have just come from no where randomly. There's studies out and all it really is, is 2 amino acids bound to a phenyl ring to cross the BBB.

Adderall doesn't increase Neural Growth Factors or brain-derived neurotrophic factor, they just increase stamina. Same with all amphetamines and stimulants. They just keep you up and able. Caffeine for example. Used to study because it will keep your hand writing. It's not specifically enhancing neuron connections *though they do say coffee is really good for your brain*

Look up the studies on L-Theanine and Caffeine. There's a shit ton and it's all basically saying the two combined enhances performance and multitasking. Throw in Noopept and a stimulant to increase endurance and you have what I made as a stack. (BioFocus).

The people who do crazy 9 chem stacks are just over doing it. Racetams are an actual scientific thing. Noopept isn't even one so idk what you'd call it besides a NGF enhancer.

AS for it's use with hallucinogens I'd be very scared to try them on shrooms because it would probably trick me into thinking i'm on limitless shit and start scribbling nonsense.




This! I took caffeine, theanine, and piracetam. I was practically on god mode


Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
You can get caffeine and ltheanine from drinking green tea. The benefits are not even that great.

Does noopept have clinical trials to back up your claims?


I really do believe that for studying, memory, focus, and especially ADD low doses of stimulants are proven and not that bad for your brain. Some people are on ADD meds most of their lives and do well.



Theanine and caffeine in raw form is amazing. I would suggest quitting caffeine for a few days and then trying it out with virgin tolerance

Also, amphetamine in any amount is neurotoxic. You realize that adderall band aids the problem? Your tolerance gets higher, your dopamine production drops, and your add gets worse?

Years from now you will be left with two problems; adder all dependence, AND adhd that is much worse


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22176525 - 09/01/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, people take addy for years and do really good with ADD.

It helps me a lot dude without it I could not do college.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #22177599 - 09/02/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.




Its the abstract, do you know anything about how to do proper research?

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
Because we're in the pub not the chem subforum.




This doesn't excuse bullshit arguments and making claims based on assumptions.
We're still not in OTD...


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22177704 - 09/02/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well there is plenty of science supporting a few psychedelics for brain enhancement...25i nbome and psilocin have been shown to promote neurogenesis (actually so have various cannibinoids) which is the growth of new brain cells..

psilocin connects different areas of the brain which were previously unconnected...

I believe ketamine does the same, that is to say, it rewires the brain in a positive way.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22177720 - 09/02/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe in very low doses. Otherwise, they are distracting, and make studying almost impossible.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22177736 - 09/02/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Indeed, I would find it quite impossible to study while heavily under the influence of any psychedelic (besides maybe weed).

But, it may be a good idea to study sober..then end the study session with a little K. Or study, trip the next day, study after come-down or next day...

I may do some experiments like this and let ya know of any results.

I'm taking a few college classes atm so I'm always studying lol


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22177973 - 09/02/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.

I have studied nuclear physics while on acid...
If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.

Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.


A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand.
Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22179576 - 09/02/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.

I have studied nuclear physics while on acid...
If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.

Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.


A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand.
Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"



Im hoping to take physics soon. It looks quite interesting


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22180561 - 09/02/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

dementia is what happens when your brain makes too many connections and then collapses early


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22180952 - 09/02/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.

I have studied nuclear physics while on acid...
If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.

Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.


A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand.
Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"



Im hoping to take physics soon. It looks quite interesting



I took an intro physics class once, it was pretty interesting.

we built a hover-craft.

nuclear physics sounds both difficult and interesting..and meh it seemed pretty flexible a theory anyways (conservation of mass that is), now energy...


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22181120 - 09/02/15 11:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Conservation of mass is a derivative of conservation of momentum.

If you take conservation of momentum (momentum being just mass times velocity), and make the velocities constant, you have conservation of mass.
It is not not enough to have just conservation of energy.

Both energy and momentum are conserved in the universe.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22183690 - 09/03/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Nah, people take addy for years and do really good with ADD.

It helps me a lot dude without it I could not do college.



I just saw this

You do you man. But IMO its just a pointlessly silly idea. You said it yourself; proper eating, sleeping, drinking water,
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Conservation of mass is a derivative of conservation of momentum.

If you take conservation of momentum (momentum being just mass times velocity), and make the velocities constant, you have conservation of mass.
It is not not enough to have just conservation of energy.

Both energy and momentum are conserved in the universe.



Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.

I have studied nuclear physics while on acid...
If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.

Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.


A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand.
Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"



Im hoping to take physics soon. It looks quite interesting



I took an intro physics class once, it was pretty interesting.

we built a hover-craft.

nuclear physics sounds both difficult and interesting..and meh it seemed pretty flexible a theory anyways (conservation of mass that is), now energy...



These are both the biggest reasons I want to take physics. Like I said; incredibly interesting


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22219676 - 09/11/15 01:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I do Theanine and Caffeine every once in a while. There's a noticeable clarity for those days. I'm also a little better self-controlled. I lose my temper pretty often. On theanine days though, I'm more reserved and in control. I'll start to rise in temper and than am able to think about it and be like "Whatever, it's not worth it." I shrug it off easier. I blame the clarity. I'm able to think more clearly about the bigger picture.

With the research I've done on the web, low dose (microdose) shroom and LSD both show nootropic effects. I don't remember the dosage for LSD, but believe it's like 1/100 of a standard trip dose. For shrooms though, it's .25g to .5g! Either of the drugs are taken every 3 or 4 days.

Those who microdose are said to have more energy, more clarity and focus, and connect ideas much more quickly. They can concentrate on tasks exponentially more than before microdosing. They're also said to be happier overall, from their own personal reports. And the effects are said to continue for quite a while after quitting the microdose as well, at least with regard to general happiness and well-being.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22220836 - 09/11/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
I do Theanine and Caffeine every once in a while. There's a noticeable clarity for those days. I'm also a little better self-controlled. I lose my temper pretty often. On theanine days though, I'm more reserved and in control. I'll start to rise in temper and than am able to think about it and be like "Whatever, it's not worth it." I shrug it off easier. I blame the clarity. I'm able to think more clearly about the bigger picture.

With the research I've done on the web, low dose (microdose) shroom and LSD both show nootropic effects. I don't remember the dosage for LSD, but believe it's like 1/100 of a standard trip dose. For shrooms though, it's .25g to .5g! Either of the drugs are taken every 3 or 4 days.

Those who microdose are said to have more energy, more clarity and focus, and connect ideas much more quickly. They can concentrate on tasks exponentially more than before microdosing. They're also said to be happier overall, from their own personal reports. And the effects are said to continue for quite a while after quitting the microdose as well, at least with regard to general happiness and well-being.



I have tried both of those things and yes. Microdoses help with both of those. Microdosing feel like a more "natural" and less pushy ritalin buzz. I would also try shrooms over LSD microdosing. Its more effective, easier to measure, and has less ill effects on sleep


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22221762 - 09/11/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I have tried both of those things and yes. Microdoses help with both of those. Microdosing feel like a more "natural" and less pushy ritalin buzz. I would also try shrooms over LSD microdosing. Its more effective, easier to measure, and has less ill effects on sleep




I haven't heard of sleep issues before, but I believe it. I wasn't interested in LSD anyway. It's easier to grow your own medicine if it's shrooms. That's been my interest for as long as I've been studying shrooms, all of 4 or 5 months. :P  That's why I'm here now. Learning all I can about fungiculture before I do it myself.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22221876 - 09/11/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I have tried both of those things and yes. Microdoses help with both of those. Microdosing feel like a more "natural" and less pushy ritalin buzz. I would also try shrooms over LSD microdosing. Its more effective, easier to measure, and has less ill effects on sleep




I haven't heard of sleep issues before, but I believe it. I wasn't interested in LSD anyway. It's easier to grow your own medicine if it's shrooms. That's been my interest for as long as I've been studying shrooms, all of 4 or 5 months. :P  That's why I'm here now. Learning all I can about fungiculture before I do it myself.



I used microdoses of 4acodmt with good results. Just make sure to have a good scale and gluck!


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22222061 - 09/11/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I used microdoses of 4acodmt with good results. Just make sure to have a good scale and gluck!




Fa sho. :smile:


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222068 - 09/11/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What do you consider good results from microdosing psychedelics?


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
    #22222087 - 09/11/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
What do you consider good results from microdosing psychedelics?




Haven't microdosed myself and I can't answer for others who have, but from what I understand, have read and researched, good results should look something like increased good mood, it exceeds a caffeine like high but without the jitters, you have increased clarity of mind, increased ability to focus and increased ability to remember things quickly.

I'd like to hear from those who've had these effects and any additional.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222122 - 09/11/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
Quote:

GreenRabbit said:
What do you consider good results from microdosing psychedelics?




Haven't microdosed myself and I can't answer for others who have, but from what I understand, have read and researched, good results should look something like increased good mood, it exceeds a caffeine like high but without the jitters, you have increased clarity of mind, increased ability to focus and increased ability to remember things quickly.

I'd like to hear from those who've had these effects and any additional.



I gained mixed results. I had better energy and focus. But I am not sure I had increased cognition because I never measured it. Anecdotally and with no medical studies I say its a good idea


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22222142 - 09/11/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
I gained mixed results. I had better energy and focus. But I am not sure I had increased cognition because I never measured it. Anecdotally and with no medical studies I say its a good idea




There've been studies, per se. Not government sanctioned but James Fadiman has been doing these studies for like 50 some years.

http://reset.me/story/the-benefits-of-microdosing-with-lsd-and-psilocybin-mushrooms/
http://www.highexistence.com/microdosing-lsd-psychedelic/

Edit: He's primarily focused on LSD, but has done experiments too with shrooms. He has a program set up where people of their own accord will contact him with their results. He gathers data by people freely messaging him and giving him their results.


Edited by JoeP83 (09/11/15 01:59 PM)


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222159 - 09/11/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
I gained mixed results. I had better energy and focus. But I am not sure I had increased cognition because I never measured it. Anecdotally and with no medical studies I say its a good idea




There've been studies, per se. Not government sanctioned but James Fadiman has been doing these studies for like 50 some years.

http://reset.me/story/the-benefits-of-microdosing-with-lsd-and-psilocybin-mushrooms/
http://www.highexistence.com/microdosing-lsd-psychedelic/



Sadly, the actual cognitive effects have yet to be measured though. Faidman's research is sadly ridded with confounding factors. I think microdosing works great and reccomend it. But until I see proper scientific studies backing it up with control groups and consistent dosing, and cognitive tests, I cant really say


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22222182 - 09/11/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I agree to some extent. Though anecdotal evidence can amount to conclusive evidence with enough people involved. You'll have a greater degree of information that can't be properly decrypted, but enough information to make the assumption that "microdosing is a good idea." Results will always vary, person to person, but if enough people say they have noticeable cognitive increases, you have to agree that there's a strong possibility, proven or not, that it could very well be true. I agree that I'd love to see an actual sanctioned test, but that's not possible for us right now. Although that doesn't mean there's not one out there somewhere in another language either. :P

http://www.livescience.com/51482-more-people-microdosing-psychedelic-drugs.html

Not adding anything to the table with this link, I just like posting things I find. :smile:


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222198 - 09/11/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
I agree to some extent. Though anecdotal evidence can amount to conclusive evidence with enough people involved. You'll have a greater degree of information that can't be properly decrypted, but enough information to make the assumption that "microdosing is a good idea." Results will always vary, person to person, but if enough people say they have noticeable cognitive increases, you have to agree that there's a strong possibility, proven or not, that it could very well be true. I agree that I'd love to see an actual sanctioned test, but that's not possible for us right now. Although that doesn't mean there's not one out there somewhere in another language either. :P

http://www.livescience.com/51482-more-people-microdosing-psychedelic-drugs.html

Not adding anything to the table with this link, I just like posting things I find. :smile:



I guess thats a fair thing to say


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222202 - 09/11/15 02:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

In all other ways I agree though. No studies here to prove anything and just anecdotal evidence. But that's why it comes down to us to experiment, study and decide for oursleves. Use the information we know and find ways to use it to our advantage. Microdose and find ways to study yourself or have friends study you. Even if all it does it make you a little happier throughout the day though, I think it's totally worth it. I'm tired of being pissed all the time at stupid stuff, ya know? A little happier, a little clearer, all good to me.


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: JoeP83]
    #22222250 - 09/11/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JoeP83 said:
In all other ways I agree though. No studies here to prove anything and just anecdotal evidence. But that's why it comes down to us to experiment, study and decide for oursleves. Use the information we know and find ways to use it to our advantage. Microdose and find ways to study yourself or have friends study you. Even if all it does it make you a little happier throughout the day though, I think it's totally worth it. I'm tired of being pissed all the time at stupid stuff, ya know? A little happier, a little clearer, all good to me.



yep. This and it made me great at meditating


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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22222309 - 09/11/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
yep. This and it made me great at meditating




I'd like to get better at meditating too.


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