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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22175683 - 09/01/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.
That's an abstract, just a summary of the article. I can see if I have access to the full text though.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22175731 - 09/01/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.
It's because it's 40 years old.
But the real question is the interpretation of the results. Subjects on drug were able to recall 0.7 words relative to those on drug. What does that mean in the "real-world"? Not much I suspect. This is withstanding that no statistics were presented, and the subjects weren't randomized.
The study wouldn't be published in the year 2015.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: badchad]
#22175741 - 09/01/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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They probably tested less then a hundred people too.
In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. 
I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (09/01/15 08:42 PM)
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22175871 - 09/01/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Celastrus paniculatus is a cool natural nootropic, all the weird synthetic crap scares me to be honest.
In what ways would you consider kratom a nootropic BC?
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: musiclover420]
#22175887 - 09/01/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I consider kratom a powerful nootropic.
It gives me energy, focus, motivation, helps with physical labour. If I need to do homework a good dose of kratom helps me get shit done.
It is honestly just about as good for my focus and motivation as my vyvanse prescription.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22175926 - 09/01/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Definitely very motivating, I have been missing it these past couple days. Coffee sucks in comparison, as does tea. Even if it tastes way better
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22176051 - 09/01/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: They probably tested less then a hundred people too.
In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. 
I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.
You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
#22176196 - 09/01/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: They probably tested less then a hundred people too.
In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. 
I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.
You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims
Ya but to be fair most of the hype around nootropics like piracetam is highly anecdotal.
And since we are on the subject of anecdotal evidence, I am just gonna say that kratom blows piracetam out of the water in terms of nootropic effects. No contest. I would even say coffee blows piracetam out of the water.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Gorlax



Registered: 05/06/08
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22176439 - 09/01/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You always seem to claim kratom to be better then anything you have ever taken. I do believe opiates enhance studying and test taking but that's off topic. Getting into the science of that is almost ridiculous considering the strength of certain opiates and dosages people take. A small dose of a mild opiate could increase performance.
A few nootropics are indeed real Noopept is basically the only one that I'd put money on. The rest seemed to have just come from no where randomly. There's studies out and all it really is, is 2 amino acids bound to a phenyl ring to cross the BBB.
Adderall doesn't increase Neural Growth Factors or brain-derived neurotrophic factor, they just increase stamina. Same with all amphetamines and stimulants. They just keep you up and able. Caffeine for example. Used to study because it will keep your hand writing. It's not specifically enhancing neuron connections *though they do say coffee is really good for your brain*
Look up the studies on L-Theanine and Caffeine. There's a shit ton and it's all basically saying the two combined enhances performance and multitasking. Throw in Noopept and a stimulant to increase endurance and you have what I made as a stack. (BioFocus).
The people who do crazy 9 chem stacks are just over doing it. Racetams are an actual scientific thing. Noopept isn't even one so idk what you'd call it besides a NGF enhancer.
AS for it's use with hallucinogens I'd be very scared to try them on shrooms because it would probably trick me into thinking i'm on limitless shit and start scribbling nonsense.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Gorlax]
#22176459 - 09/01/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can get caffeine and ltheanine from drinking green tea. The benefits are not even that great.
Does noopept have clinical trials to back up your claims?
I really do believe that for studying, memory, focus, and especially ADD low doses of stimulants are proven and not that bad for your brain. Some people are on ADD meds most of their lives and do well.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22176522 - 09/01/15 11:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: They probably tested less then a hundred people too.
In my experience though, I had taken piracetam and choline and some other stuff for half a year. It never did anything for me. 
I actually found kratom to be a much better nootropic then piracetam cause it actually works.
You don't seem to understand this. SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE is not ample evidence for objective claims
Ya but to be fair most of the hype around nootropics like piracetam is highly anecdotal.
And since we are on the subject of anecdotal evidence, I am just gonna say that kratom blows piracetam out of the water in terms of nootropic effects. No contest. I would even say coffee blows piracetam out of the water.
I actually agree with you bc. I think you fail to understand that the difference isn't really strong with paracetam. Noticeable, but not strong at all
And kratom and coffee blow paracetam out the water. I stopped using it after about 3 months. But for thst time, it def undid tons of alcohol damage
And a good way you cud prove this; go out for a night of drinking heavy. In the morning take paracetam
It shud remove "brain dead" feeling of the hangoverQuote:
Gorlax said: You always seem to claim kratom to be better then anything you have ever taken. I do believe opiates enhance studying and test taking but that's off topic. Getting into the science of that is almost ridiculous considering the strength of certain opiates and dosages people take. A small dose of a mild opiate could increase performance.
A few nootropics are indeed real Noopept is basically the only one that I'd put money on. The rest seemed to have just come from no where randomly. There's studies out and all it really is, is 2 amino acids bound to a phenyl ring to cross the BBB.
Adderall doesn't increase Neural Growth Factors or brain-derived neurotrophic factor, they just increase stamina. Same with all amphetamines and stimulants. They just keep you up and able. Caffeine for example. Used to study because it will keep your hand writing. It's not specifically enhancing neuron connections *though they do say coffee is really good for your brain*
Look up the studies on L-Theanine and Caffeine. There's a shit ton and it's all basically saying the two combined enhances performance and multitasking. Throw in Noopept and a stimulant to increase endurance and you have what I made as a stack. (BioFocus).
The people who do crazy 9 chem stacks are just over doing it. Racetams are an actual scientific thing. Noopept isn't even one so idk what you'd call it besides a NGF enhancer.
AS for it's use with hallucinogens I'd be very scared to try them on shrooms because it would probably trick me into thinking i'm on limitless shit and start scribbling nonsense.
This! I took caffeine, theanine, and piracetam. I was practically on god mode
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: You can get caffeine and ltheanine from drinking green tea. The benefits are not even that great.
Does noopept have clinical trials to back up your claims?
I really do believe that for studying, memory, focus, and especially ADD low doses of stimulants are proven and not that bad for your brain. Some people are on ADD meds most of their lives and do well.
Theanine and caffeine in raw form is amazing. I would suggest quitting caffeine for a few days and then trying it out with virgin tolerance
Also, amphetamine in any amount is neurotoxic. You realize that adderall band aids the problem? Your tolerance gets higher, your dopamine production drops, and your add gets worse?
Years from now you will be left with two problems; adder all dependence, AND adhd that is much worse
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
#22176525 - 09/01/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nah, people take addy for years and do really good with ADD.
It helps me a lot dude without it I could not do college.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: ModestMouse]
#22177599 - 09/02/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.
Its the abstract, do you know anything about how to do proper research?
Quote:
ModestMouse said: Because we're in the pub not the chem subforum.
This doesn't excuse bullshit arguments and making claims based on assumptions. We're still not in OTD...
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
#22177704 - 09/02/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well there is plenty of science supporting a few psychedelics for brain enhancement...25i nbome and psilocin have been shown to promote neurogenesis (actually so have various cannibinoids) which is the growth of new brain cells..
psilocin connects different areas of the brain which were previously unconnected...
I believe ketamine does the same, that is to say, it rewires the brain in a positive way.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
#22177720 - 09/02/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe in very low doses. Otherwise, they are distracting, and make studying almost impossible.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
#22177736 - 09/02/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Indeed, I would find it quite impossible to study while heavily under the influence of any psychedelic (besides maybe weed).
But, it may be a good idea to study sober..then end the study session with a little K. Or study, trip the next day, study after come-down or next day...
I may do some experiments like this and let ya know of any results.
I'm taking a few college classes atm so I'm always studying lol
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
#22177973 - 09/02/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.
I have studied nuclear physics while on acid... If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.
Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.
A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand. Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: GreenRabbit]
#22179576 - 09/02/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreenRabbit said: Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.
I have studied nuclear physics while on acid... If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.
Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.
A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand. Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"
Im hoping to take physics soon. It looks quite interesting
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Konyap

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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
#22180561 - 09/02/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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dementia is what happens when your brain makes too many connections and then collapses early
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hTx
(:



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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
#22180952 - 09/02/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
GreenRabbit said: Tripping a day after studying is likely not going to help.
I have studied nuclear physics while on acid... If you don't take too much, it can work in a very interesting way, but I would never suggest you do that before an exam.
Although I gotta say, trying to comprehend how a photon becomes mass, and how antimatter can annihilate matter and destroy mass is much harder when tripping lol.
A little side note: If you thought conservation of mass was a thing... It is just a lie you are told in school to make life easier to understand. Kind of like how they tell you "You cant subtract a bigger number from a smaller number"
Im hoping to take physics soon. It looks quite interesting
I took an intro physics class once, it was pretty interesting.
we built a hover-craft.
nuclear physics sounds both difficult and interesting..and meh it seemed pretty flexible a theory anyways (conservation of mass that is), now energy...
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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