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InvisiblehTx
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Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be?
    #22173881 - 09/01/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It seems the more research that surrounds psychedelics, the more safe it seems to call these substances nootropics..that is they seem to enhance brain function, even after single-use.

I know there is a huge nootropic surge in popularity, and many are trying all sorts of new chemicals with the intent to increase brain function.

It seems psychedelics are the way to go if one is into nootropics...as they have more solid science behind them than nootropics do.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22173888 - 09/01/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Adderall is what nootropics aspire to be.

Nootropics are overpriced placebo powders you order off the net.


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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22173921 - 09/01/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Lol.. Nootropics are not placebo... And they are cheap as fuck...

They potentiate the fuck out of psychedelics actually. They makes shrooms way fucking stronger. It's weird..

And you can't study on psychedelics, that's a whole other class of chemical anyway.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22173925 - 09/01/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Adderall is what nootropics aspire to be.

Nootropics are overpriced placebo powders you order off the net.



LOL BC you have a very unscientific way of stating your opinion. It makes it hard to really have a proper conversation/arguement. Even if your opinion is valid at times, you need to state it properly

But to the OP; nootropics help heal your brain, and help one function in day to day life. psychedelics are about dissolving the ego. Nootropics are just a more multi-dimensional and neuroprotective version of caffiene. Way overhyped, but still legitamate


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: hTx]
    #22173962 - 09/01/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nootropics are mostly overpriced tulips.
Some of it works, but most of it is so subtle that you're just paying money for the placebo.

I choose not to fux with them.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: ModestMouse]
    #22174075 - 09/01/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174107 - 09/01/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.



1) you made the claim, and hence you need to provide evidence. Show me evidence that every study done on piracetam that compares piracetam to placebo is wrong?
2) noone stated at any point that piracetam was as effective as adderall. Adderall is miles more effective
3) doctors dont prescribe it because it adderall is euphoric, more effective, makes more money, and is addictive (indirectly makes more money)
4) piracetam is effective for some and not for others. You are in the "other" category. Im sure there are many people on the planet who were alcoholics. Is that evidence that alcohol will fuck you no matter what? No
5) piracetam is suggested over adderall because adderall is known to be neurotoxic
6) once again, sleeping, excercising, and eating better are all MILES better than piracetam. Noone argued that. The question is, does piracetam give a noticable edge to people? If we had two groups of people who had the same genetics, sleeping, eating, and health habits, and one group was given piracetam, would that group perform better? And the answer is a clear YES

Jesus christ man. Your claims are reasonable and a lot of times even correct. You just state it so unscientifically. You made no clear scientifically stated hypothesis. Just irrelevant comparisons to adderall


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #22174211 - 09/01/15 02:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because we're in the pub not the chem subforum.


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OfflineSaulGoodman
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174232 - 09/01/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: SaulGoodman]
    #22174241 - 09/01/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174275 - 09/01/15 02:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Piracetam and those nootropic stacks are about as effective as half a milligram as adderrall at best.

The science is just not there. There is a reason ADD doctors don't prescribe their patients piracetam. :lol: The science behind nootropics is bullshit and honestly eating healthy meals and getting and a good sleep will do a million times more for your brain then nootropics.

I got into nootropics a while ago. One of the top complaints of nootropics is brain fog and sleepiness and headaches. :lol:

Maybe if you are an old dying grandma with dementia and are having trouble remembering shit nootropics are alright, but common, seriously ordering these "smart powders' off the net is a joke. I have found they have done absolutely nothing and the best effect was the placebo.

One sip of coffee, a small drag off a cigarette, pretty much anything is actually more effective then nootropics.



1) you made the claim, and hence you need to provide evidence. Show me evidence that every study done on piracetam that compares piracetam to placebo is wrong?
2) noone stated at any point that piracetam was as effective as adderall. Adderall is miles more effective
3) doctors dont prescribe it because it adderall is euphoric, more effective, makes more money, and is addictive (indirectly makes more money)
4) piracetam is effective for some and not for others. You are in the "other" category. Im sure there are many people on the planet who were alcoholics. Is that evidence that alcohol will fuck you no matter what? No
5) piracetam is suggested over adderall because adderall is known to be neurotoxic
6) once again, sleeping, excercising, and eating better are all MILES better than piracetam. Noone argued that. The question is, does piracetam give a noticable edge to people? If we had two groups of people who had the same genetics, sleeping, eating, and health habits, and one group was given piracetam, would that group perform better? And the answer is a clear YES

Jesus christ man. Your claims are reasonable and a lot of times even correct. You just state it so unscientifically. You made no clear scientifically stated hypothesis. Just irrelevant comparisons to adderall




Jesus christ dude I'm not writing a history paper I just stated my opinion on the Pub.

Modafinil is legit though, that's an actual stimluant. I think you can get it prescribed too?


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174288 - 09/01/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174584 - 09/01/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?



Yes lol. This is why you sound silly making claims that it doesn't work


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22174784 - 09/01/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

SaulGoodman said:
Try modafinil and come back and tell me it didn't increase your brain function.



This

And BC: You are yet to even address my point at all. All factors held equal, does piracetam make a positive difference in cognition? That answer is yes




Probably not. Have there been any extensive clinical trials on it?



Yes lol. This is why you sound silly making claims that it doesn't work




Show me a clinical trial with actual people that show it improves memory and all that stuff for piracetam or one of the racetams.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22174950 - 09/01/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:


Show me a clinical trial with actual people that show it improves memory and all that stuff for piracetam or one of the racetams.




Doubtful you'll find one. Even if you did, the effects are so subtle as to be clinically insignificant.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: badchad]
    #22175541 - 09/01/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432889800518


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/291/1/99.short

Both show the piracetam has SOME effect and we understand the causes of those effects. It's borderline retardation to say piracetam has no effect


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22175557 - 09/01/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432889800518


http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/291/1/99.short

Both show the piracetam has SOME effect and we understand the causes of those effects. It's borderline retardation to say piracetam has no effect




First link says improves memory in rats. Last time I checked I am a human, not a rat.

The second study is done with rats, again, I really hope I am not a rat.


I asked for one clinical studies, where actual people take these drugs and have higher scores in tests and memory exams. You pretty much just proved my point that all the hype around nootropics is based on random anecdotes and no clinical research.

/thread


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175568 - 09/01/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: topdog82]
    #22175580 - 09/01/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Are psychedelics what nootropics aspire to be? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22175656 - 09/01/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Meh that study looks shakey it's like three sentences and doesn't go into any detail.



It's a study regardless like you asked for. You can only see the abstract put its published in a pretty high end journal

In addition I think you don't realize pieacetam is prescribed in Europe for very serious things. Pharmaceuticals rarely prescribe/sell things that don't work like that

Also, you keep mentioning adderall. IMO it's a pointless crutch. You kinda need to keep upping the dosage and then when the dose gets too high, they switch you to another medication. I took it for a year and there's much better ways to solve the problem


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