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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22182932 - 09/03/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

A trip is just a hallucination that people attach meaning to.

Clearly you are as uninformed as you are inexperienced. Given your current status, based entirely on your statements, psychedelic will probably be deleterious for you, not instructive. If you cannot take verbal instruction from  Shroomerites on this forum pulling their punches, a psychedelic will be a very stern teacher and you will NOT be able to handle the teaching. Oh, you "tried spirituality?" :lol: You haven't done anything, of that I am confident. The use of the word 'try,' always implies a wide margin for failure. In the spirit of Yoda, 'do or don't do in these matters. There is no try.' You have no resolve, or you're just trolling here. Spirituality is not about belief, it is about a lifestyle founded on certain values. Beliefs are merely thoughts. They come and go like all thoughts. Values are abiding properties of a personality. One does not value non-violence today and violence tomorrow. Values are like the superstructure of a building, thoughts are like pieces of furniture that can be moved in or around, or thrown out.

Spirit is an archaic word for what we now call Consciousness or Awareness. So all you've communicated in that sentence is that you 'tried to be conscious or aware.' Sorry that you failed. That means you're doomed to muck about in semi-conscious states, making all kinds of blunders, becoming potentially accident-prone, and manifesting body language and micro-expressions that will creep people out and maybe get you assaulted for reasons you'll never understand. In failing to increase your awareness about yourself, mishaps will occur and your recourse will be to blame everybody and everything rather than take responsibility for them because tou won't be conscious of the fact that you're the author of them!


Joe Btfsplk


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22183666 - 09/03/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I was completely rational and scientifically/positivistically-minded about it all and thought life was just an 'alright' sort of mistake until I started having spontaneous out of body experiences during the night. I am convinced of other bodies, other realities or levels of reality now. The physical body is not who you are, you inhabit it. How do I know the OBEs weren't products of the mind? Well I would say I've learnt to trust my experience, but you don't even need to learn that to see the sheer otherworldliness of these experiences. They are a complete slap in the face to common sense.

There is nothing usual about life.


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My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: circastes]
    #22184339 - 09/03/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

The only thing I can recall is every time I was dreaming I remember there were times when I could really feel things going on in them. Some times I was "yanked" awake in a sort of falling sensation. It was like crashing back into my body. I have no idea why that happens but it has stopped happening recently. I'm not sure what that means really.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22184406 - 09/03/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
A trip is just a hallucination that people attach meaning to.

Clearly you are as uninformed as you are inexperienced. Given your current status, based entirely on your statements, psychedelic will probably be deleterious for you, not instructive. If you cannot take verbal instruction from  Shroomerites on this forum pulling their punches, a psychedelic will be a very stern teacher and you will NOT be able to handle the teaching. Oh, you "tried spirituality?" :lol: You haven't done anything, of that I am confident. The use of the word 'try,' always implies a wide margin for failure. In the spirit of Yoda, 'do or don't do in these matters. There is no try.' You have no resolve, or you're just trolling here. Spirituality is not about belief, it is about a lifestyle founded on certain values. Beliefs are merely thoughts. They come and go like all thoughts. Values are abiding properties of a personality. One does not value non-violence today and violence tomorrow. Values are like the superstructure of a building, thoughts are like pieces of furniture that can be moved in or around, or thrown out.

Spirit is an archaic word for what we now call Consciousness or Awareness. So all you've communicated in that sentence is that you 'tried to be conscious or aware.' Sorry that you failed. That means you're doomed to muck about in semi-conscious states, making all kinds of blunders, becoming potentially accident-prone, and manifesting body language and micro-expressions that will creep people out and maybe get you assaulted for reasons you'll never understand. In failing to increase your awareness about yourself, mishaps will occur and your recourse will be to blame everybody and everything rather than take responsibility for them because tou won't be conscious of the fact that you're the author of them!


Joe Btfsplk





I'm afraid I don't understand the second paragraph


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22184598 - 09/03/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm afraid I don't understand the second paragraph

Indubitably. Failing to choose to become more conscious means being subject to pre-personal, unconscious dynamics instead of increasingly more conscious and freely-willed choices. The more that one's behaviors are colored by unconscious factors, the more determined by the unconscious one's life becomes. The more conscious one becomes, the less hold unconscious determinants have on us and the greater our existential freedom to choose becomes. But also, the greater the personal freedom, the greater one's personal responsibility becomes. Blaming others and having a defeatist attitude veritably screams failure to take spiritual responsibility - to endeavor to awaken and to act responsibly as a direct corollary and consequence of that freedom.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22184646 - 09/03/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

And how does one begin to do such a thing.


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Offlinemwhtmn
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22185085 - 09/03/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good question.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: mwhtmn]
    #22185411 - 09/03/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well to tell a story..I was on Ayhuasca and i went directly into my soul..

At first it was like a perfect disc..resembling the sun(yoke) the color of orange and yellow..which is a mixture of light and matter...

and i realized that i am the Creator..and that i am in perfect peace.

It was pure consciousness..and then even the concept of space and time disapeared...I was perfectly in this present moment..there was no discociation and no other worldliness.

But i soon had a memory of a past life..as Alexander the Great..it was illuminated by the color pink...

I think the principles of the soul..is what Reiki is founded on..


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22185856 - 09/03/15 11:22 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
And how does one begin to do such a thing.




Your disparaging attitude towards spirituality is similar to all those people who got beat up by ignorant religious parents, nuns, etc., and end up throwing baby Jesus out with the bathwater. What they ought to have done is throw out all the dogmas and doctrines they were taught, forget everything they were taught, and ask what the deeper meaning is beneath the archaic mythic language.

Since 1945 a whole formerly unknown world of spiritual teaching was unearthed from a desert cave at the Egyptian city of Nag Hammadi which shows how many different Christianities there were at the beginning. The Roman Catholic Church, fascist from its inception, thought it had destroyed all the copies of the teachings that threatened the power structure of the priesthood, but the treasure of the Nag Hammadi library can change people's lives. But no. Most people would rather rant against Christianity, for example, because they had their knuckles rapped with a ruler by a frustrated nun when they were in parochial school. :lol:

You're asking how one begins to awaken? I cited a major find in the history of religion above, and one which has had a powerful influence on my adult life. But I explored methods from the East, beginning with a serious pursuit of classic Ashtanga Yoga for several years that cleaned me out and strengthened my resolve to awaken. Who wants to say no to their plastic and toxic society? Who wants to give up socializing if one is expected to actually eat at a McDonald's with their friends, or not indulge in drugs that don'r serve awakening, or completely refuse to lie or to use people? Awakening is about getting honest with oneself so that one can be honest with everyone else, among other things, and it requires a discipline. The seeking is not so much for God, it is for a discipline through which God is encountered.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22186027 - 09/04/15 12:21 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My apologies really, but you had me untill that last paragraph.

I'm pretty much what people would call a neophyte at this, I just do not understand where to begin.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22186815 - 09/04/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:facepalm:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
A trip is just a hallucination that people attach meaning to.

Clearly you are as uninformed as you are inexperienced... You tried to be conscious or aware.' Sorry that you failed. That means you're doomed to muck about in semi-conscious states, making all kinds of blunders, becoming potentially accident-prone, and manifesting body language and micro-expressions that will creep people out and maybe get you assaulted for reasons you'll never understand. In failing to increase your awareness about yourself, mishaps will occur and your recourse will be to blame everybody and everything rather than take responsibility for them because tou won't be conscious of the fact that you're the author of them!


Joe Btfsplk





Sorry, I don't see how telling some kid that admits to aspergers that he is "doomed" to creep people out and be assaulted because he doesn't understand is helpful. Frankly, that's a pretty silly thing to say to somebody.

"Awakening" isn't an immediate process. Everybody starts there, even people who are eventually considered by others to be highly awake people. Everybody is born under the veil and everybody has a right to seek after what they are looking for. It's not OK to disparage him or project onto him for not understanding yet.

Thanatos, please do your own searching. If you ask for spoonfed answers without broadening your own understanding you are going to attract misleading things or misunderstand people when they say the right things.

Google is a great place to start or your local library. Wikipedia can be a great place to start. Every question you have, the answer is available on the internet or on a cheap amazon used book. If it is important for you to understand, take a little initiative and avoid the attitude of wanting others to solve it for you.

Try directing your questions about extrasensory perception and the nature of spirituality to a search engine or to youtube and see what sort of information you are presented with. Then make your own discernment over time. Apply your skepticism to everything you read but be open minded enough to consider different perspectives.

Edit:

If you haven't noticed, a lot of people here cite the psychedelic experience as being a significant catalyst in their ability to understand things. You may want to do a little research on that too and decide if you can handle that sort of experience. It is the "fast track" in many ways but it's not for everybody.


Edited by saenchai (09/04/15 08:45 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: saenchai]
    #22187778 - 09/04/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I missed the admission to Asperger's so HE has my apology and YOU have my appreciation for pointing out my faux pax. Asperger's notwithstanding, there is still a very negative attitude which begs the question of Asperger's. I haven't evaluated him myself, and I see mis-diagnoses all the time. Flattened affect and unpolished social skills can be the result of schizophrenia, schizotypal, or schizophreniform disorders. I do not know this person and all I have is a third-hand disclosure from you which came from him, which ostensibly came from his diagnostician. I am appealing to his inquiring intellect, which appears to be lucid (no-psychotic). However, I DO as I said appreciate your concern and I regret having missed that disclosure regardless of how accurate.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22187851 - 09/04/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
My apologies really, but you had me untill that last paragraph.

I'm pretty much what people would call a neophyte at this, I just do not understand where to begin.




Please do not apologize. I was not addressing your positive 'spirit' of inquiry, which I applaud  :congrats: but rather a negative tone which struck me more as an emotional evaluation (which seems at loggerheads with a diagnosis of Asperger's), than an intellectual evaluation. One need not 'believe' any affirmation about Ultimate Reality (God) and one can still set about 'polishing the lenses of the mind' to see what one can see. Personally, I would start work with the body. My own path began with Hatha Yoga asanas (positions), but Hatha Yoga, while focusing on the 84 basic asanas, still includes the classic 8 rungs of Yoga outlined by Patanjali (and referred to as Ashtanga or Raja Yoga in the literature): Yamas, Niyamas, Asanas, Pranayamas, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana, Samadhi.

You need not be concerned by the alien terms. The Yoga is a systematic movement from physical to mental to supramental processes via breath. Breathing is the link between body and mind. Here is a fairly comprehensive link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali ;  If you have an opportunity to receive even a few lessons from a teacher of Hatha Yoga, by all means do so. Going into and coming out of the postures, dos and dont's are best taught in person. However I Highly recommend THIS book in hard-cover if possible (cloth-bound and durable, I've had mine for decades):  http://www.amazon.com/complete-illustrated-yoga-Introd-Marcus/dp/B0032EW6A8/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1441390995&sr=1-2&keywords=the+complete+illustrated+book+of+yoga

I hope this helps.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22188087 - 09/04/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

another good place to start in my opinion is youtube. there are now so many videos on spiritually, as well as audio editions of ancient sacred texts, available for free on youtube. just keep exploring until you find something that resonates with you.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #22188839 - 09/04/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

We're all pretty concrete-minded when we begin a spiritual journey, so beginning with the body is logical because beginning with the mind's intellect just opens up an enormous number of confusing possibilities. Shopping for a path based on intellectual curiosity will tend to result in the selection some of the most unusual phenomena ("spiritual materialism"). For example, if someone happens upon one of the Tibetan Buddhist yogas of form, say the Yoga of the Inner Fire (gtummo), and one thinks they can self-teach themselves to heat themselves to the point of melting snow (I've watched a YouTube video where this was demonstrated, but I remain a bit incredulous), they may waste valuable time thereby discouraging themselves, or actually do some harm without guidance. Moreover, this and other psychophysical feats doesn't mean that one has developed spiritually in the least, just psychically. It is important to discern the psychic from the spiritual. These differences in one;s inner life become more obvious after one has begun to 'iron out' their nervous system from the gross to the subtle.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22189176 - 09/04/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've started with mediation for a week so far. People have told me it's a good place to start and I find the stillness really speaks to me.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22189842 - 09/04/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I've started with mediation for a week so far. People have told me it's a good place to start and I find the stillness really speaks to me.




Good for you! Hatha Yoga helps the body to sit correctly and painlessly during meditation. Be sure to sit with your knees lower than your hip joints!  http://aromeditation.org/pictures/


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #22191272 - 09/05/15 02:12 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I've started with mediation for a week so far. People have told me it's a good place to start and I find the stillness really speaks to me.



That's amazing man, I'm so glad to hear that. It took me a few years practice to really start to see the benefits, but when I finally cracked it... wow.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #22193050 - 09/05/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder is the 23 Grams thing is true..that when a Person dies..they lose about 23 ounces..or whatever..That might be a type of material..but it might not be in space or time at all..it is indeed beyond space and time..but it is definately a fabric..and saying that it is consciousness is totally true as well.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is there a Soul? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #22193840 - 09/05/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Another urban legend. Psyche doesn't have mass. Of course, if you have bladder and bowel release, that counts for mass. BTW, it was closer to 2 ounces, but it is still a hoax.


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