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OfflineRobinhood182
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Identification Please
    #22168237 - 08/31/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Habitat:
Found in Puerto Rico on cow manure
Gills:
dark gills

Stem:
about 4 to 5 inches long and thin

Cap:
light beige color, 2 to 3 inches in diameter

Spore print color:
working on it, but handling them after leaving them overnight in a bag I noticed the spores were pretty dark

Bruising:
dark bruising











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Offlineelprawn
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Robinhood182]
    #22168292 - 08/31/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Looks like Copelandia cyanescens. :thumbup:


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Identification Please [Re: elprawn]
    #22168339 - 08/31/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

It's a Copelandia species, active.


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Offlinebluelou
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Re: Identification Please [Re: MidnightCity]
    #22168371 - 08/31/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Good healthy ones too!!

Congrats man,get more......


--------------------
Have you tried my(black kow) pile style tek outdoors!!!!!!!!


Edited by bluelou (08/31/15 10:18 AM)


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: bluelou]
    #22168498 - 08/31/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Panaeolus cyanescens for sure, good find!

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22168565 - 08/31/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Panaeolus cyanescens for sure, good find!

-E. Borodin




No, not for sure. This subgenus requires microscopy to accurately determine the specific species. At this point we can only confirm that they are an active Copelandia species.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: MidnightCity]
    #22168605 - 08/31/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Panaeolus cyanescens for sure, good find!

-E. Borodin




No, not for sure. This subgenus requires microscopy to accurately determine the specific species. At this point we can only confirm that they are an active Copelandia species.




Of coarse further assessment should always be required for an absolute identification, but if I had to give it my opinion based solely off of a few small pictures, I would say Panaeolus cyanescens for sure.



You have to admit that upon visual inspection they seem to be Panaeolus cyanescens

(But of coarse it's always best to get a group consensus, as well as to examine the spores microscopically, or proceed with further testing if needed.)

-E. Borodin


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Offlinekactus.brand.g
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Re: Identification Please [Re: MidnightCity]
    #22168837 - 08/31/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Panaeolus cyanescens for sure, good find!

-E. Borodin




No, not for sure. This subgenus requires microscopy to accurately determine the specific species. At this point we can only confirm that they are an active Copelandia species.




I agree :thumbup:  There are quite a few other mushrooms in the copelandia family,not just cyanescens.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: kactus.brand.g]
    #22172572 - 09/01/15 05:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Copelandia cyanescens and Panaeolus cyanescens are synonyms, though for what ever reason I feel Panaeolus better describes the fungi pictured...Panaeolus tropicalis is also known as Copelandia tropicalis...

I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature when dealing with these species, but that's just me.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22172921 - 09/01/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Copelandia cyanescens and Panaeolus cyanescens are synonyms, though for what ever reason I feel Panaeolus better describes the fungi pictured...Panaeolus tropicalis is also known as Copelandia tropicalis...

I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature when dealing with these species, but that's just me.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia is a subgenus that contains a group of very similar species which are much more potent than other species in Panaeolus, just calling them Panaeolus would be too vague for people who may not be as informed as you.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: MidnightCity]
    #22173049 - 09/01/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Copelandia cyanescens and Panaeolus cyanescens are synonyms, though for what ever reason I feel Panaeolus better describes the fungi pictured...Panaeolus tropicalis is also known as Copelandia tropicalis...

I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature when dealing with these species, but that's just me.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia is a subgenus that contains a group of very similar species which are much more potent than other species in Panaeolus, just calling them Panaeolus would be too vague for people who may not be as informed as you.





Copelandia is a now deprecated  genus of mushrooms consisting of at least 12 species. Many American mycologists previously placed members of Panaeolus which stain blue into Copelandia, whilst European mycologists generally used the name Panaeolus instead. Now all mushrooms previously categorised under the Copelandia genus are given the name Panaeolus universally.-Wikipedia

This is why I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature.

-E. Borodin


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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22173073 - 09/01/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Copelandia cyanescens and Panaeolus cyanescens are synonyms, though for what ever reason I feel Panaeolus better describes the fungi pictured...Panaeolus tropicalis is also known as Copelandia tropicalis...

I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature when dealing with these species, but that's just me.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia is a subgenus that contains a group of very similar species which are much more potent than other species in Panaeolus, just calling them Panaeolus would be too vague for people who may not be as informed as you.





Copelandia is a now deprecated  genus of mushrooms consisting of at least 12 species. Many American mycologists previously placed members of Panaeolus which stain blue into Copelandia, whilst European mycologists generally used the name Panaeolus instead. Now all mushrooms previously categorised under the Copelandia genus are given the name Panaeolus universally.-Wikipedia

This is why I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia might be deprecated but it is a useful shorthand for our purposes on this board as all it's members are active, whereas Panaeolus is quite vast and contains a ton of inactive species. Copelandia is used for brevity and clarity.


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Identification Please [Re: doctorghosty]
    #22173276 - 09/01/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

^^^What the good doctor said.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: doctorghosty]
    #22174140 - 09/01/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

doctorghosty said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Copelandia cyanescens and Panaeolus cyanescens are synonyms, though for what ever reason I feel Panaeolus better describes the fungi pictured...Panaeolus tropicalis is also known as Copelandia tropicalis...

I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature when dealing with these species, but that's just me.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia is a subgenus that contains a group of very similar species which are much more potent than other species in Panaeolus, just calling them Panaeolus would be too vague for people who may not be as informed as you.





Copelandia is a now deprecated  genus of mushrooms consisting of at least 12 species. Many American mycologists previously placed members of Panaeolus which stain blue into Copelandia, whilst European mycologists generally used the name Panaeolus instead. Now all mushrooms previously categorised under the Copelandia genus are given the name Panaeolus universally.-Wikipedia

This is why I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature.

-E. Borodin




Copelandia might be deprecated but it is a useful shorthand for our purposes on this board as all it's members are active, whereas Panaeolus is quite vast and contains a ton of inactive species. Copelandia is used for brevity and clarity.





I have no issues when people use the Copelandia nomenclature, and I understand why you use it, I was simply explaining why I prefer the Panaeolus nomenclature. I'm simply using the prefered nomenclature over the deprecated synonym.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineBlazeyy
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum] * 1
    #22174165 - 09/01/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Kinda like Deconica/Psilocybe/Stropharia 

more clarity

i prefer Copelandia myself cause it's just so much easier


--------------------
I give you the choice of 2 pills.

With each containing one of the following:
Cyanide... Psilocin... Would you take the risk?
Didn't think so.

This is why Positive Identification prior to consumption is important.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Blazeyy]
    #22177485 - 09/02/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Blazeyy said:
Kinda like Deconica/Psilocybe/Stropharia 

more clarity

i prefer Copelandia myself cause it's just so much easier






Hmmm...I always figured forming a new sungenus where the only distinguishing taxonomic feature is "blue bruising" would be more confusing...

They figured that setting aside a separate distinction for such a minor taxonomic feature was unessecary

...besides there are actives such as panaleous cinctulus that were never designated under the copelandia nomenclature, it was not activity that moved a panaleous into this subclass, it was the actual blue bruising of the cataphore, which really does seem unnecessary...

I often have people ask me "which is better,Copelandia cyanescens or Panaeolus cyanescens?" Not realizing that copelandia and panaleous are identical, I think the copelandia classification ultimately caused more confusion, which is why it's now deprecated...

I have honestly seen so much more confusion resulting from multiple names for the same thing. Most people will automatically assume copelandia is its own genus unique from panaleous

deprecated means "to be avoided" "not prefered", "obsolete", so while dealing with academics in the mycological field it's considered improper nomenclature, so I try not to build bad habits and stick with the academically accepted standard.

But to each his own I suppose, if you really think it's easier more power to you.

-E. Borodin


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22180935 - 09/02/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

What sources are you relying on?

In 1996 Gerhardt placed Copelandia back into Panaeolus. That was just shy of twenty years ago and he based his conclusions from microscopy.

We know now, based on DNA evidence, that Copelandia is a seperate genus. From a molecular standpoint it's between Panaeolus and Psilocybe.

You have unique thoughts and opinions about the taxonomy of the Copelandia genus and I'm not here to change your mind about them, you are entitled to think whatever you want. :super:
I do however want to make it clear to others who want to know the facts and make sure they aren't confused about where the genus Copelandia currently stands.


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: MidnightCity]
    #22181923 - 09/03/15 07:29 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Please provide links for your information source.

The Colorado mycological society provides me with my information, I had to call them, they said the copelandia nomenclature is in fact obsolete, to be avoided, deprecated.

I did not get to ask about these distinguishing microscopic features you claim makes copelandia separate from panaleous, though I figured you would have no problem providing your information source.


Copelandia is a subgenus, so all copelandia mushrooms are panaleous.

With a subgenus you write the name as such:
panaleous (copelandia) cyanescens

Simply writing "copelandia cyanescens" causes confusion as people assume that copelandia is its own genus and not a subgenus.


Copelandia is a now deprecated [1] genus of mushrooms consisting of at least 12 species.[2] Many American mycologists previously placed members of Panaeolus which stain blue into Copelandia, whilst European mycologists generally used the name Panaeolus instead. Now all mushrooms previously categorised under the Copelandia genus are given the name Panaeolus universally.[1] The Copelandia genus was a subgenus of Panaeolus created by Abbé Giacomo Bresadola (1847–1929) in honor of Edwin Bingham Copeland (1873–1964), an American who gathered fungi in the Philippines and sent some collections to Bresadola.-Wikipedia
(If Wikipedia is wrong you better notify the person who edits the copelandia page!)

Again: Now all mushrooms previously categorised under the Copelandia genus are given the name Panaeolus universally- wikipedia


I understand why you use the term, but in official mycological nomenclature it's considered improper and obsolete.

Again, please provide links to your information source!

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22181929 - 09/03/15 07:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

https://mycotopia.net/topic/93091-molecular-studies-in-panaeolus-and-copelandia/

This was the closest thing I could find to a source of copelandia being re-established, good info, but no official links.

I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to personally review the microscopy, because as far as I have been told from reliable sources, the copelandia nomenclature was in fact deprecated.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: Identification Please [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #22181936 - 09/03/15 07:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Gerhardt 1996, he moved Copelandia back into Panaeolus and kept Panaeolina as a separate genus...

Did you read that properly?

It says gerhardt moved copelandia BACK into panaleous in 1996.

So yes, the copelandia nomenclature is deprecated.

-E. Borodin


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