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unsui888
Embodied


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The Infamous Tree Falling
#22165422 - 08/30/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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So I'm sure this question has been visited at least a few times on here, but I would like to revisit it as my answer has seemed to change over the years. So... "if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
I'm beginning to think that it doesn't because a sound is a property of our brain interpreting the signals it receives. If there is no brain to interpret the signal, then the signal is essentially just the mere vibration of molecules. I think this also extends from the auditory to the olfactory modality, but when I try to extend this idea to the visual modality, I have a harder time believing the visual event did not occur if no one was around.
Any one care to discuss this, again?
-------------------- "a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing" primus------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22165494 - 08/30/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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i don't think we can ever know the answer to that question.. or rather it's a pointless question to confuse the impressionable folks, a conundrum if u will.
it's like saying if u went out for a walk in the park, would you actually be walking in a park?, or would it be merely projection from ur mind?, or "are we really alive, or do we just think we are?.."
confusing right?..
although they may be important questions to some, i dont necessarily think there's really a point in trying to answer them. it is these kinds of questions that take one out of the moment and cause one nothing but stress. and if we were ever able to answer them, what then i ask u??, what then?..
i suppose our egos would be pleased, but that's about it..
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unsui888
Embodied


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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: zZZz]
#22165547 - 08/30/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't see your analogy to walking in the park as even close to being the same question... whether we are walking in the park or it is just a projection of our mind, we are still walking in the park.
I think answering this question would provide at least some insight into the nature of things, so I guess if you don't want to look into the nature of things, then yes, it would be pointless. Pondering this question does not cause me stress...
-------------------- "a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing" primus------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22166363 - 08/30/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
unsui888 said: So I'm sure this question has been visited at least a few times on here, but I would like to revisit it as my answer has seemed to change over the years. So... "if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
I'm beginning to think that it doesn't because a sound is a property of our brain interpreting the signals it receives. If there is no brain to interpret the signal, then the signal is essentially just the mere vibration of molecules. I think this also extends from the auditory to the olfactory modality, but when I try to extend this idea to the visual modality, I have a harder time believing the visual event did not occur if no one was around.
Any one care to discuss this, again?
the sound of the tree falling is what? It is your experience. There is no tree falling. It is all your experience,i.e., a matter of vibratory energies--you might call them sensations--wafting through consciousness. Now if those energies don't waft through, i.e., if you don't hear or see the tree, then there was no tree, no falling, nothing to hear, nothing to see. In other words, the objective world is a myth, something you have never experienced. All you know or can know is your own vibrating consciousness. An objective world is, at best, hypothesis.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22166564 - 08/30/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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A cactus is NOT a tree.
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Space Elf



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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22166798 - 08/30/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Basically, do things actually occur if no one is around to perceive it happening? Pretty much the entire history of our universe occurred without anyone perceiving it. So yes, I believe the tree makes a sound. That is, unless you believe Someone did perceive it, like God, etc. That's as far as I want to go into this topic. Fun to think about though.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Space Elf]
#22166814 - 08/30/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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You could put a camera next to the tree and record it with out anybody being around. I would venture a guess there would be a sound.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888] 2
#22166830 - 08/30/15 09:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If the tree is known to fall without anyone there to see it, then it follows that it makes a sound with no one there to hear it. Duh.
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unsui888
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Middleman]
#22166968 - 08/30/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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But sound is a product of brain activity... if there is no brain to perceive, then there would be no sound - just molecules.
-------------------- "a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing" primus------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22166985 - 08/30/15 10:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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nuentoter
conduit



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it makes a shockwave of energy thrusting particles in all directions. that is all
how the hairs/membranes/nerves/brain choose to interpret these makes it sound.
I agree though this is a question made for only questioning purposes not made for answers.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Tropism
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888] 1
#22168553 - 08/31/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
unsui888 said: So I'm sure this question has been visited at least a few times on here, but I would like to revisit it as my answer has seemed to change over the years. So... "if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
I'm beginning to think that it doesn't because a sound is a property of our brain interpreting the signals it receives. If there is no brain to interpret the signal, then the signal is essentially just the mere vibration of molecules. I think this also extends from the auditory to the olfactory modality, but when I try to extend this idea to the visual modality, I have a harder time believing the visual event did not occur if no one was around.
Any one care to discuss this, again?
In short, without beings in existence there perceiving, did anything ever really happen. If the whole span of time and space came from an open to a close, but literally not a single thing was present to witness it, did it happen?
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quinn
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Middleman]
#22169523 - 08/31/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: If the tree is known to fall without anyone there to see it, then it follows that it makes a sound with no one there to hear it. Duh.
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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DisguisedCrows
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Tropism]
#22169535 - 08/31/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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If the tree fell and nobody was around to hear it, then no it didn't make a sound.
The answer is in the question itself. Sounds are auditory, and if nobody was there to decipher that auditory experience then the auditory effect never happened to begin with. For example, millions of years ago there was a time period when many of the animals could not hear. The vibrations they felt were their sense at the time, but no sound was made then because there was nobody there to experience it.
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Freedom is subjective.
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quinn
some kinda love


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but are sounds even sounds you know  
like are the vibrational patterns and exchanges of nerve endings and synapses actually sounds themselves or something else..
and what if you heard a very low constant hum being played for your entire life could you be said to have ever have heard the note at all because to 'hear' something it needs to be in relation to other things you can hear, you could not possibly concieve of a world without the hum...
and what if the hum was the constant sound of trees falling over could you ever be said to have heard a tree falling over     
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888] 1
#22170387 - 08/31/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
unsui888 said: But sound is a product of brain activity... if there is no brain to perceive, then there would be no sound - just molecules.
I know what follows will be flamed, but if you think about it long enough from all possible angles--this will take more time than most of us will ever give to it--you will see it. It is what Huxley called "The Perennial Philosophy":
Sound is not a product of brain activity. It is a product of awareness or consciousness and please, don't say "But awareness is a product of brain activity". The fact is brain activity is an idea in consciousness that tries to explain the presence of awareness. But, it is unecessary. Awareness or consciousness is the Primary experience. It is not produced by anything. It causes itself.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
Edited by champinhom (08/31/15 06:08 PM)
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Middleman]
#22170943 - 08/31/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: If the tree is known to fall without anyone there to see it, then it follows that it makes a sound with no one there to hear it. Duh.
"If the tree is "known" to fall and no one is there to hear it..." is just begging the question.
Someone would need to experience some physical consequence in affairs surrounding the tree in order to know it falls. That'd might as well be considered sound...
Granted the question "if the tree falls and no one is there to hear it...", is already a way of begging the question, it's just that the answer comes in at least two ways.
This question is really about setting up faith in narratives for their own sake. It is narrative in fracture, and the suggested consequence of having to tell a story that is better than other stories that are also being told at the same time. Modern mythology.
Or, it is about a single broken narrative that modern people want to fix. The tree is even God...the one that fell and is dead... The tree is knowledge, or "what is known", and the narrative indulged with complacency. Or it's however things might be told.
This perennially-dead tree is either a very good, or very bad question... It is not even about the question, if we participants are the question.
If it's a platitude, why not turns towards something riskier?
"The Will to Truth, which is to tempt us to many a hazardous enterprise, the famous Truthfulness of which all philosophers have hitherto spoken with respect, what questions has this Will to Truth not laid before us! What strange, perplexing, questionable questions! It is already a long story; yet it seems as if it were hardly commenced. Is it any wonder if we at last grow distrustful, lose patience, and turn impatiently away? That this Sphinx teaches us at last to ask questions ourselves? WHO is it really that puts questions to us here? WHAT really is this "Will to Truth" in us? In fact we made a long halt at the question as to the origin of this Will—until at last we came to an absolute standstill before a yet more fundamental question. We inquired about the VALUE of this Will. Granted that we want the truth: WHY NOT RATHER untruth? And uncertainty? Even ignorance? The problem of the value of truth presented itself before us—or was it we who presented ourselves before the problem? Which of us is the Oedipus here? Which the Sphinx? It would seem to be a rendezvous of questions and notes of interrogation. And could it be believed that it at last seems to us as if the problem had never been propounded before, as if we were the first to discern it, get a sight of it, and RISK RAISING it? For there is risk in raising it, perhaps there is no greater risk." - Friedrich Nietzsche; Beyond Good and Evil
Edited by Kurt (08/31/15 09:05 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Kurt]
#22171279 - 08/31/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Heisenberg UncertainTree Principle.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22175571 - 09/01/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is clear that air and earth are compressed and displaced when a tree falls, but unless there is some kind of recording instrument, animal, insect or mechanical, there is no sound qua sound amidst the dust and debris. Sound is a neural response to compressed molecules. I remember the TV trailer to the film Alien in the early 80s with the words, "In space, no one can hear you scream." No one can hear through the medium of a vacuum, so while there are no space-trees, an explosion would not be heard until shrapnel hit your space suit and helmet. But back to the tree, it's motion, just as the audible quality of it's felling are potentially visual and audible events given the presence of an eye, natural or mechanical. But fortunately, the laws of nature, including gravity, the tensile strengths of various woods, the coefficient of friction of the roots tearing from the ground, the characteristics of air (wind) surrounding the event, and so many other variables, can all be used to predict the characteristics of the otherwise unseen and unheard toppling of a tree. Decibel level on a human ear varies with distance. Imagine watching a tree fall from a plane. You will see the debris fly, but you will not hear it at that distance. If you don't see the tree fall either, but see it lying down on your return flight, you can predict with a high degree of probability that it fell according to the variables I mentioned, barring paranormal, extraterrestrial, extradimensional, or supernatural intervention. .
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Heisenberg UncertainTree Principle. 
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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OrgoneConclusion
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Some classics still work.
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kosmokratorshaman
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sound happens whether or not someone is present. That's like saying something cant exist if no one has seen it...and we know that has been proven wrong time and time again.
-------------------- I am.
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maddad
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Sound is just waves, those waves occure even if no one is around to hear it. Think about it this way, waterfalls are contantly making noise even when no one is around, but once someone comes around it can be heard. The sound waves may not reach anyones ears but that does not mean they don't exist each and every time a tree falls.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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nuentoter
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22177570 - 09/02/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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they are only sound waves because thats what we call them because our bodies have a physical mechanism for transferring vibration into an electrical impulse that our brain interprets and calls sound.
Ask someone who's been deaf their entire life if the tree makes a sound. Ask him to explain the experience of a sound to you. Ask him to explain the experience of music or a nearby gunshot to you.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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MarkostheGnostic
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Quote:
kosmokratorshaman said: sound happens whether or not someone is present. That's like saying something cant exist if no one has seen it...and we know that has been proven wrong time and time again.
Sound is a phenomenon that requires a stimulus to a system which registers sound. A deaf person witnessing a tree fall does not experience sound, only vibration in the body and air on the skin. For a deaf person, sound qua sound does NOT exist. It exists to a hearing person next to the deaf person, but it does not exist if only the deaf person is present. You can imagine a crashing sound, but without an ear or a recording device, sound is only potential not actual. Sound is a result of the falling event upon a recording mechanism. It is a subjective event. There is no sound without an ear, just molecular motion. Sound is not a self-existent, objective 'thing.' Pretty simple example to illustrate a mind-blowing point about how we project our subjective experience onto space-time that has nothing to do with our experience.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/02/15 12:31 PM)
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nuentoter
conduit



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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Sound is a phenomenon that requires a stimulus to a system which registers sound. A deaf person witnessing a tree fall does not experience sound, only vibration in the body and air on the skin. For a deaf person, sound qua sound does NOT exist. It exists to a hearing person next to the deaf person, but it does not exist if only the deaf person is present. You can imagine a crashing sound, but without an ear or a recording device, sound is only potential not actual. Sound is a result of the falling event upon a recording mechanism. It is a subjective event. There is no sound without an ear, just molecular motion. Sound is not a self-existent, objective 'thing.'Pretty simple example to illustrate a mind-blowing point about how we project our subjective experience onto space-time that has nothing to do with our experience.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: nuentoter]
#22178018 - 09/02/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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maddad
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Sound is a wave just like light, and light exists even if no one is there to see it. It vibrates the air molecules, which happens regardless of a mechanism being able to pick it up. If it did not then the universe would not exist without someone to witness it.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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maddad
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22178613 - 09/02/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will admit it does need a medium which it can travel through, but as I said the air molecules do that. And who is to say the other trees around dont pick up those vibrations?
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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Tropism
ChasingTail


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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22178656 - 09/02/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Somehow I feel the question was not originally intended to be taken so literally, to the point of arguing the definition of sound. While this conversation is neat and regards experience and subjectivity quite thoroughly I'd wager the author meant to use "the tree falling in the forest" as a vehicle to express experience or perception, rather than focusing on the particular sense in question.
Of course I could easily be wrong. For example I don't know the context of which it is being said, he may very well be at a science convention and asking a quite literal,--non-proverbial-- question.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22178671 - 09/02/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Im quite sure they do, but do they perceive is as a sound? or for simply what it is, a vibration shockwave of matter emitting outward.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: nuentoter]
#22178753 - 09/02/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Chances are a squirrel heard the damn thing. Close this fucking thread.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22178763 - 09/02/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddad said: Sound is a wave just like light, and light exists even if no one is there to see it. It vibrates the air molecules, which happens regardless of a mechanism being able to pick it up. If it did not then the universe would not exist without someone to witness it.
Vibrations occur, but sound qua sound is a subjective experience of those vibrations impinging upon cochlear, neurologic equipment. The air and earth around the event may tremble but they do not 'hear' sound. Sound occurs in the mind of a creature equipped to convert sound waves to audible impulses, or in the mechanism of a recording device. Without either of these modes of perception, natural or mechanical to receive and translate, there is no sound.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/02/15 04:00 PM)
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maddad
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
maddad said: Sound is a wave just like light, and light exists even if no one is there to see it. It vibrates the air molecules, which happens regardless of a mechanism being able to pick it up. If it did not then the universe would not exist without someone to witness it.
Vibrations occur, but sound qua sound is a subjective experience of those vibrations impinging upon cochlear, neurologic equipment. The air and earth around the event may tremble but they do not 'hear' sound. Sound occurs in the mind of a creature equipped to convert sound waves to audible impulses, or in the mechanism of a recording device. Without either of these modes of perception, natural or mechanical to receive and translate, there is no sound.
I would have to disagree, sound is just the name that we have given these waves. For instance dog whistles are inaudible to humans but dogs can hear that frequency. So does that mean that dog whistles don't make noise if no dog is around to hear it. No, because it is still emitted into the air. It still creates those waves, and those waves still carry "sound". I understand that sound is perceptual, as is light. But that doesn't mean they don't exist without anything to perceive them. Otherwise we would not be able to have this dicussion in the first place, because nothing would exist until there was an observer. Sound transcends the meaning we give it, we can only perceive it the way it occurs in our brains, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist outside of that.
And hearing is beside the point, there are studies of trees moving and dancing to music. You can look that up. Trees don't have ears so how do they hear? Through the vibrations of the waves which carry the same meaning even without ears, or a mechanism to hear.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22179916 - 09/02/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is becoming tedious. Sound is not carried, waves are carried through a given medium. Sound is the result of those waves on a system able to register and translate those waves into its constituent parts (pitch, amplitude, etc.). I'm obviously in agreement with subjective idealism, but Scientific American Magazine appears to be in agreement: "The magazine Scientific American corroborated the technical aspect of this question, while leaving out the philosophic side, a year later when they asked the question slightly reworded, "If a tree were to fall on an uninhabited island, would there be any sound?" And gave a more technical answer, "Sound is vibration, transmitted to our senses through the mechanism of the ear, and recognized as sound only at our nerve centers. The falling of the tree or any other disturbance will produce vibration of the air. If there be no ears to hear, there will be no sound." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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maddad
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I wouldn't say its an idealism, sound is just how we term the difference between it and other types of waves. I agree that it comes down to how we perceive it, but to say that if no one is there to perceive it then it does not exist is foolish. Obviously the waves are there, so "sound" is as well. It is simply a word for our perception of incoming sensory data. That data would still be out there, just because it does not get processed doesn't mean anything, other than that it goes unheard.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: maddad]
#22180539 - 09/02/15 09:39 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dunno if you get a deaf and blind person to stand there they can probably still tell you the tree fell by receiving and processing the same wave of matter washing across them. The tree was never heard and has no sound to this man. not because he is deaf so much as the word sound has no meaning, it is interpreted differently which changes the terminology used, which changes the nature of the originating action.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: nuentoter]
#22180711 - 09/02/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just how many times is this damned tree going to keep falling and who is setting it back up?
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unsui888
Embodied


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I don't know, but I'm going to have to agree with Markos, nuentoter, and Scientific American on this one...
-------------------- "a note for asses: what is very convincing, is not necessarily true - it is merely convincing" primus------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------------------mama didn't raise no fool
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BrendanFlock
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22185325 - 09/03/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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The meaning of existence IS NOT A METHOD OF TRUST OR FAITH!!
We are here and so are the laws of nature and the universe...OF COURSE THE TREE MAKES A SOUND..and maybe with a new piece of technology we can detect it..or else..
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BrendanFlock
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This Zen Koan can be taken to understand the meaning of Delivering a Message in which you are uncertain...And so Does the Tree fall and make a sound..it is like sending an Email..you send it and across the world someone else receives it!
Water is a delicate Balance..one of the Prime Figures of Philosophy Figures that the world is founded on Water..(And I Know everyone is 50/50 about Waterworld..With Kevin Costner)..
The changes and balances in a dynamic system..is a real Beautiful but always poetic benefit of being alive..Things happen when you dont see them..and i think you dont need to have belief or faith or trust..its just the laws of nature taken into accord..which would likely be a Solipsistic attitude on the Apocalypse(Of Adam for example in Gnostic Literature, nag Hammadi)..
But the Straigtest Path might be indeed..just believing anything you see and hear..What harm could come to you..? I ask this question in Jest..or otherwise..
Maybe a man Running under a tree..we could likely avoid the disaster..but the powerful elements of nature would be there none the less..
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Intothewild

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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: unsui888]
#22195007 - 09/05/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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It releases energy & we recieve it in the form of soundwaves, so I don't think it is a yes or no answer.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Intothewild]
#22195191 - 09/05/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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What is always interesting about koans, is they always ask "what is the koan?"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: The Infamous Tree Falling [Re: Kurt]
#22195379 - 09/06/15 12:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
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Something you put ice cream in!
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BrendanFlock
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Lol, this is a passionate discourse...the meaning of Zen koans is in the Course in Miracles.
The only thing wrong with the world is misperception and if you get it right..likely the outcome will become pure gold(as in Alchemy terms) and that you can find the meaning of life, within a handshell..a nuance in a beacon of atonement..a meaning in the Saturday newspaper..or in a nutshell..the motive for being is always the same..but lets please not hurt each other..what our common law is saying is that we indeed have a proof..and its a proof for existence, existing in and always around a central motif called DNA..in this Ribonucleic acid we find our salvation which is an accordance with so called junk DNA..we need more psychic powers and salvation to be served from a handbag..and thats what i call the state..the moment of being is sublimating divine..and the calls to cancer are the cure of all diseases..to know that when you have a disease is to call a Doctor..and therein are your prescriptions refilled; it is a laser taboo to understand the God of focus..which is attention and the observer has effects on the phenomena of time..and space; inside a cube is the desire for more awareness..so i say: Build the Grid! and then take it down to china town, and the circle it above..and make it seem like below..in all the following characteristics of a tree falling down..they exist and so do we..the Aliens making crop circles; they dont do it when you are watching..they only come out a night when they can hide what they are truly attempting to do to us..which is probe us with an instrument...but one that resembles a neat or Koshered Affect of existence..which is that we have sensitive spots..and the way we treat animals is un-just! We cannot go along like this and expect salvation to come from a tear drop of the rain.. It is with good Comme Bitteh..that we understand the need for spies and the awareness of the trains of our modality for being..in which we signal left and right..go forward and back..remain seated or take a disc jockey for a spin..inside and out is the knot of time..and thats a miracle to witness the one mistake that we can always make: But its always a Freudian slip anyways!!
The information is out there for you to solve the alien dilemma..and xenophobia is worse than racism..for the race necessarily involves all creatures..and all kingdoms of existence..this is the definition of fate that i find reasonable..and it is plausible to assume that there will be no more ninjas or samurais..to come save of..we have evolved to a certain degree in which we no longer need weapons..and that it is a desire to stay in countenance which is a necessary balance of life..this is the scales so to speak in the Libran Alignment..and the moon is on behalf of the cosm of time..and the moon is on behalf of the orbiting of time..these are situations which come to justice as an alignment..the notion is true that all of life is a miracle..so therein you can expect to find the true reason.
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