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Offlinebmitchum13
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Liquid Culture Looks Odd
    #22164373 - 08/30/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So I'm fairly new to fungi cultivating but I have made an lc with golden teachers before and it turned out great. I followed the same procedure for Cambodian and Brazilian and I got odd looking lc. I tried it again and got pretty much the same thing just less of it. I'm thinking maybe my concentration of honey and syrup was too high. Hopefully someone can help out. For reference, I used this tek from Otto: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5238137. I also have some pics but I'm not really sure how to upload them on my smartphone so hopefully this worked haha


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: bmitchum13]
    #22164384 - 08/30/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bmitchum13 said:
So I'm fairly new to fungi cultivating but I have made an lc with golden teachers before and it turned out great. I followed the same procedure for Cambodian and Brazilian and I got odd looking lc. I tried it again and got pretty much the same thing just less of it. I'm thinking maybe my concentration of honey and syrup was too high. Hopefully someone can help out. For reference, I used this tek from Otto: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5238137. I also have some pics but I'm not really sure how to upload them on my smartphone so hopefully this worked haha



There is no way to visually tell if an LC is 100% clean, test jars/dishes must be shot up and grown out...


Edited by PussyFart (08/30/15 11:34 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: bmitchum13]
    #22164389 - 08/30/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Nasty. Throw that bacterial mess away and stop using garbage LC teks. Spores to inoculate LC is terrible but even worse is just having a pickle jar with some holes in the lid and a bit of tinfoil over them and the whole works done in open air.


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Offlinetetherface
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: bmitchum13]
    #22164405 - 08/30/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

what did you use for inoculate? its hard/impossible to tell if a LC is clean unless you test it on something. Did you take the lid off to take those pics??or is that the bottom? either way check out GWLC I've had great success with that but my sugar based LC's have always sucked:shrug:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: tetherface]
    #22164421 - 08/30/15 11:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Those are contamed with bacteria.  No question.  You might not be able to tell visually if its 100% clean but I can say for certain that mess is 100% contamed. With bacteria. Healthy LC looks clear.



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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22164427 - 08/30/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22164875 - 08/30/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
You might not be able to tell visually if its 100% clean but I can say for certain that mess is 100% contamed. With bacteria. Healthy LC looks clear.



But he is using honey, uncontaminated honey LCs can look absolutely horrendous, similar to his pics. This is why I do not use it.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: blackout]
    #22164939 - 08/30/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I have used honey. Some sediment is common. Perhaps if he uswd a crazy amount in the range of 8-10% it might look like that and not be a horrible contamed mess. But given that was inoculated with spores, through a simple hole drilled in a lid, in open air, then covered with foil, with no filter or SHIP, I am going to stick with my diagnosis. Also the sediment from the honey will clear as it colonises. That has not. I still stick with my original position.


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22164965 - 08/30/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Why would you make any call for good or bad when you don't even know if the OP swirled the lc just before taking the pic?


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Offlinetetherface
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: invitro]
    #22164991 - 08/30/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

if he did it in open air via spore print, I personally agree with pasty that its cooked I've tried LC from spore several times when I was new in a SAB and failed EVERYTIME so ya its done for:thumbdown::drgonz:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: invitro]
    #22165004 - 08/30/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Because its cloudy, unfiltered, open holes, and inoculated with spores. Because of the way the myc looks in it. But you know what, maybe I'm totally off base. Test it out OP. See how it does. These guys know better than me. Granted I have done my share of LC but, I'm not infallible.

Pic of a just swirled LC



Pic of a rich, honey LC done by Blue Helix



See how his cleared up once good clean growth started. Sure most sugar based LC look a bit sketch right when you pull them out of the PC. But a week later and it should look a lot better.

At any rate i am done with this thread. OP should test it. Good luck :thumbup:


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22165070 - 08/30/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

double post---


Edited by invitro (08/30/15 07:44 PM)


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Offlineinvitro

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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: invitro]
    #22165083 - 08/30/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Without knowing what kind of honey or syrup is used, it's hard to tell what level of sediment would be normal.  I've used unfiltered honey.  I've had honey in the past that's had a good amount of sediment.

It looks like he may have swirled it right before the pic.

All I can say at this point is that it's possible that's is still good, giving it a test run is highly recommended.

(edited because somehow my last post got put into a blender of garbled words- i don't know how that happened!)


Edited by invitro (08/30/15 02:48 PM)


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22165919 - 08/30/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I have used honey. Some sediment is common. Perhaps if he uswd a crazy amount in the range of 8-10% it might look like that and not be a horrible contamed mess.



In the first post he said he might have added too much, I was taking that into account.


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:Also the sediment from the honey will clear as it colonises. That has not. I still stick with my original position.


Yes, I have had ones go quite clear, but I see no obvious myc in his photos.


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Pic of a rich, honey LC done by Blue Helix






I can't find the thread that is from. I can only see 2 threads where BH mention honey


Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Depending on what you used to start the LC, and I don't know much about honey, you can expect some sediments to form during the pressure cooking.  Some of the sediments could make the water appear cloudy, but it doesn't matter.  I looked at many good liquid cultures using a high powered compound microscope and found that mycelium love sediments.  It often attaches to it and uses the pieces as a platform for growth.  That is why as the culture completes, it _should_ become clear between the mycelium blobs, because the mycelium has sequestered the sediment.




This is the thread I thought it was from, but he is using a 2% ME and 2% dextrose mix
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5484818/fpart/all/vc/1


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: blackout]
    #22166349 - 08/30/15 08:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You are right, I always thought he did honey for that particular grow and pulled the pic without checking. My bad. It is malt. Been a few years since I read that :facepalm:

Nonetheless I have enough experience with LC to tell cloudiness that is just sediment, and that which looks like bacteria. When doing grain water LC its critical to be able to see the difference. If OP put a drop of that on a plate I would put all my chips on bacteria. Of course being familiar with the tek he used is another edge in my favor, that thing may appeal to noobs and the old school but we have far better, far cleaner ways to produce liquid cultures these days. Maybe I am out of line insisting on things like filters on LC lids, or not lifting the lid of a sterilized LC to scrape spores off a print into it in open air, but so be it.

I will consider myself chastised, I will say nothing more in this thread. You guys think his LC is fine, so maybe I really am out to lunch. But if that was in my possession, it would be dumped right down the drain, I wouldn't even waste a plate on it. My opinion, nothing more.


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Offlinebmitchum13
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22166563 - 08/30/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for all the input everyone! Yeah my money was on bacteria, but the first time I used the tek it worked great so idk what happened this time.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22169094 - 08/31/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Maybe I am out of line insisting on things like filters on LC lids, or not lifting the lid of a sterilized LC to scrape spores off a print into it in open air, but so be it.


Not out of line in the slightest! I should have said I agree it is a very poor technique and discourage it to others.


Quote:

Pastywhyte said:I will consider myself chastised, I will say nothing more in this thread. You guys think his LC is fine, so maybe I really am out to lunch.


I would also put putting my money on it being contamed, if he was scraping spores in open air. I am just not totally sure as there may be no myc growth yet and it looks quite similar to successful honey LCs I did, I cannot say if it is fine or not. I would leave it a few more days and see if it gets any more cloudy, before even wasting it on test jars.

If you really have to use honey I would advise boiling a small amount in water and leave it settle in the jar in the fridge. Then when the sediment settles slowly decant it into another jar and resterilize. Workman recommends just 0.1-0.5% LC and I find this works well too.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: blackout]
    #22170475 - 08/31/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I would be tempted to trash a lc that looks like the one from blue helix. The lc's failure to grow together as one big chunk is a sign of contam to me. I have noticed when using lc's like that the mycelium fails to hold together the grain also.
But what do I know. I never used honey. Just powdered malt


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Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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I need to proofread


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Liquid Culture Looks Odd [Re: tahoe]
    #22178149 - 09/02/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
I would be tempted to trash a lc that looks like the one from blue helix. The lc's failure to grow together as one big chunk is a sign of contam to me.


Blue Helix's was done with a magnetic stir bar, so would have been continually broken up. It really does look odd, like little tubes.

I expect it would have clumped together if left a few days without stirring. I found mine usually did if I broke them up.


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