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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Registered: 08/07/15
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Casing or bulk?
    #22163717 - 08/30/15 08:20 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hello,
I was just wondering if I should use pete/verm (which I possess) to case grains in separate tubs in a sgft or get some coir and go bulk substrate?
If I mix the grain in with 50/50 coir/verm then do I need to use pete for casing?
I am new to this and don't understand the benefits or difference of either tek.
Thanks


Edited by Cloudbase Jim (08/30/15 08:22 AM)


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OfflinePsilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163751 - 08/30/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Don't case straight grains, you need to spawn to a bulk substrate first. Coir/verm is a great choice. After full colonization, then go ahead and case with the peat/verm mix(make sure to adjust the pH with some lime).

Better yet, you can get a bag of jiffy mix, it's ph'd properly already, all you need to do is get it to field capacity and pasteurize.


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163755 - 08/30/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Do more reading.

A "casing" is not a tek for growing mushrooms. It is thin layer of non-nutritious material that keeps your substrate from drying out. A casing layer can be applied to just about anything, including treys or monotubs.

Applying a casing layer to plain grains is generally seen as a less-than-ideal growing method. Some people do it - I personally do not.

I would definitely recommend you get coir for your grains and do a full on monotub or at least mini-monos. You have a pressure cooker already, I presume?


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OfflineAppalachian Brony
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 221
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Munchauzen]
    #22163778 - 08/30/15 08:42 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Tahoe might need to correct me, but I think about ten years ago folks were breaking up the pf cakes and applying a casing and referred to this method as "casing". Casing grains does work as well, it's just not nearly as optimal as spawning to bulk for cubensis.

Cloudbase, here are some threads you might like to read:
Ohmatic's monos
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041
Pasty's minis
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21032606/fpart/1/vc/1
Frank's 12 steps
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837
Damion5050's coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595


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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Munchauzen]
    #22163785 - 08/30/15 08:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the replies,
I was hoping that cased grains would be a reasonable method... ah well.
I presume a mono tub is just a big fruiting chamber that you fill the bottom of with the grain/verm/coir mix, right?
Then once this is colonized then get the pete/verm to field capacity and spread an inch or so over the top for casing?
What is the correct ph I should aim for? And is this just for the casing?

Thanks


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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163795 - 08/30/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Amazing links! Thanks Brony


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163807 - 08/30/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cloudbase Jim said:
Thanks for the replies,
I was hoping that cased grains would be a reasonable method... ah well.
I presume a mono tub is just a big fruiting chamber that you fill the bottom of with the grain/verm/coir mix, right?
Then once this is colonized then get the pete/verm to field capacity and spread an inch or so over the top for casing?
What is the correct ph I should aim for? And is this just for the casing?

Thanks



Yes, mix up your colonized grains with the coir/verm mix and let it colonize till the surface is completely white(about 7-10 days on average).

Then with the Peat/verm, get it to field capacity and pasteurize it at 140-160f for 1 hour. Look up Franks easy pasteurization tek for more info.

The ph of the bulk sub should not be messed with, just add a bit of gypsum to get the calcium levels up, that's it. The casing however should be in the 8-9 ph range. 1/4th teaspoon of hydrated lime should being sufficient, but test the ph before applying to your tub. You can use a soil ph tester (6$) off ebay.


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OfflineAppalachian Brony
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Registered: 03/23/15
Posts: 221
Loc: Dirty hills
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163810 - 08/30/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

No problemo man! Casing cubensis is not necessary, I did it once and it was just another step, and more cleanup during harvest. Penis envy is another story but the must be cased theory is more to avoid blobbing.

My advice is run a minimono, you'll only need 2-3 quart jars for spawn per tub so you can run 2 off of one recipe from a brick of coir. It's less eggs per basket. When you spawn leave some of the coir, verm, and gypsum (cvg) mix in the bucket. Mix up the spawn and cvg in your tub, and then put a layer of cvg on the top of that about a 1/2 thick.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163824 - 08/30/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Cased straight grains lack the water to flush out their nutrients without bottomwatering.

Bulk substrate (Coir, straw, shit) adds the water capacity to allow them to do this.

A casing layer is a thin later of low to non-nutritious material that provides a low nutritions high humidity surface for pinning, aids in moisture retention, and helps protect the actual substrate from harvest damage.  The term was confused because trays of cased PF cakes or grains were sometimes refered to as "casings."  Especially the cased cakes were quasi-bulk grows since they used a lot of casing material, not just at the pinning surface.

If you truly wanted to use what you have, you could make some kind of grains spawned to hydrated verm glorified PF cake.  Not much point since you'd actually be wasting money using expensive ass verm when you could do the same thing with a $3 coir brick.

Since you have peat and verm, you might as well go ahead and make a casing layer for your bulk sub.  It will help you achieve a good result if you're fruiting conditions aren't ideal, and maybe even if they are.  The time spent colonizing the casing would be used for consolidation anyway.  Peat casing is definitely better than coir casing.

FYI, Damion5050's coir verm tek is actually 80/20 coir verm.  Personally I don't use verm at all in my buckettek coir subs anymore.  3.75qt water is about right for a brick of coir with no verm.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22163878 - 08/30/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm learning a lot here, thanks!
One more question, is coconut coir any good or does it have to be coco coir?


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OfflineAppalachian Brony
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Registered: 03/23/15
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22163947 - 08/30/15 09:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

tis the same


--------------------


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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Appalachian Brony]
    #22164008 - 08/30/15 09:50 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

haha ok, Thanks!

Just checked on my grain and it was nothing but green mold!
What a noob!
I blame the spores, all efforts have been complete junk so far with the same spores.
Live and learn,

Thanks again


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Appalachian Brony]
    #22164425 - 08/30/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Appalachian Brony said:
Tahoe might need to correct me, but I think about ten years ago folks were breaking up the pf cakes and applying a casing and referred to this method as "casing".



Yes, it was an incorrect term then, and still incorrect today.....


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OfflinePsilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22166124 - 08/30/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cloudbase Jim said:
I blame the spores, all efforts have been complete junk so far with the same spores.



Blame your technique, not the spores. Start working with agar and even the dirtiest syringe can be cleaned up and transferred to sterilized grain jars with zero contams. It's a wonderful thing. :awesomenod:


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22166294 - 08/30/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, if he payed for a viable an unadulterated spore syringe for his microscopy masturbation, I don't think it's his fault that there are dirty trich sluts at the escort party.

It's difficult to say whether it was the syringe or your procedure that was at fault from the information you gave though.

As long as your sub is propperly hydrated, it would be very strange to get no growth in anything.  How hard is setting a timer for 90 minutes, flaming a needle with a lighter, and sticking it in a hole.

Re: The term casings
I think it would have made sense to call cased trays of cakes or grains "casings" in a time before bulk sub was common cultivation technique.  It's a lot faster than calling them "trays of cased straight grains/pf cakes."  Now it really confuses the issue, especially given that coir can be used as a casing and a bulk substrate.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (08/30/15 08:09 PM)


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Posts: 7,205
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22166338 - 08/30/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Well, if he payed for a viable an unadulterated spore syringe for his microscopy masturbation, I don't think it's his fault that there are dirty trich sluts at the escort party.



:lmafo:


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OfflineCloudbase Jim
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22168457 - 08/31/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I actually started with agar and had 20 plates all covered in white slime mold and yellow rings.
All done as to RR's videos but with an SAB or GB.
The grain was made exactly to RR's videos but i PC'd for 120mins as my PC only goes up to 12 PSi. They looked as if they were maybe a bit dry but there were a few burst grains. I am going to simmer for longer than 10 mins next time I think.


Edited by Cloudbase Jim (08/31/15 10:37 AM)


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Casing or bulk? [Re: Cloudbase Jim]
    #22168961 - 08/31/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

People were crumbling cakes and adding a casing layer. We were also growing or if straight grain with a layer of casing on top. Doing so actually works very well. But one wouldn't want to have a layer of grain any thicker than a few inches. The grain would get warm and ferment.
All this was before coir came on the scene.
It would be much better to do a grain to coir ratio of 10:1 than using no coir at all. The coir really helps the grain breath and keeps it from fermenting.

People would use the term casing two ways. First as just the plain material used as a casing layer. And then also as the word for a completed tray/tub/mono that was ready to fruit. Ie: here are my casings.
We all knew what everyone meant. I think double r shut that down when he came on the scene.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


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