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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22168336 - 08/31/15 10:09 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I dont think its realistic to imagine that heroin and other opiates are based even moderately on any kind of placebo effect. They quite obviously have the reputation of providing a transcendent rush of relaxation, euphoria, and bliss, transcending the potential of many/most other drugs, precisely because they do indeed provide that for a substantial majority of users and possibly every user at adequate doses.

To me denying the "amazingness" of a good opiate rush is a bit like holocaust denial in the sense of being totally unbelievable to most based on the amazing preponderance of anecdotal and experiential/factual/medical evidence.

If you say "its really just a meh sedating feeling" I would assume that would refer to a lower dose or lower quality, and suspect that if you took a high enough dose of opium, heroin, oxycontin etc you would be drooling with obscene pleasure like everyone else.

That said I have never done any opiates except kratom, and kratom has given me some of the greatest euphoria of my life that is no means "meh" , and opiates other then kratom would obviously be stronger.




I think if you talked to someone who is being treated with opiates for chronic pain, you would find that they perceive it completely differently than people who use it to get high.  I know there are some objective effects to opiates, but I also know that there is some level of placebo on top of that for many, and people who expect it to be the best feeling ever often end up chasing something that isn't even really that great.  I did it myself is the main thing I'm basing this on.

You guys clearly haven't taken high-dose opiates for extended periods if you think they're always fun.  They're definitely not.  You can only get so far with them, and then they are not only "meh", they become an unpleasant burden even when you're high.  I think "euphoria and bliss" does not accurately describe the high.  Like I said I associate it with a sense of relief and comfort, but in terms of intensity once you're taking enough for that intense feeling that people expect, you're in the realm of high risk of addiction, death, and unpleasant side effects.  That's just the truth.

The rush is overrated in my opinion.  It's not something you can really depend on every time, even if the quality is consistent, and chasing that is one of the biggest reasons why people have an issue with tolerance skyrocketing, as well as overdoses.  It's just not a life-changing experience, at least not in any positive sense.  It's not worth it on any level, and the idea that stronger opiates = better is a huge and dangerous misconception. 

It's just a sensation with no greater significance or meaning in terms of your life, and if you look at it as such it kinda loses it's magic.  Some people need it to be more, because their own personal lives are lacking in things they find rewarding, but that is how addicts are made.

It's not just the quality that is an issue, there are a complex set of circumstances that lead to how euphoric an opiate is, and it can be really hard to predict how good it will feel at a given time.  If you abuse it, it will let you down when you need it.  I am totally convinced that in addition to people who inadvertently get addicted not being aware of the danger, there are people who sell themselves the experience and pursue opiates because they have been lead to believe that they offer a solution to whatever issues they have.  In the case of severe chronic pain this is understandable, but for a socially awkward young person seeking relief from stress, it's just foolish.

It fulfills the romantic and melodramatic fantasies of alot of immature and frustrated people, my adolescent self included.  Nobody using wants to admit that though, because it feels alot less cool and romantic to be aware of that.  I believe if it were made legal/regulated, and doled out by doctors in a controlled way for maintenance as it should be, young people would be much less inclined to get into heroin.


Edited by moonrockmushy (08/31/15 10:10 AM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22168390 - 08/31/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Im not saying its always perfect all the time, nor do i deny that tolerance and the harms and costs of addiction rapidly outweigh any benefits, just that the romanticized extreme of transcendent euphoria and relaxation does indeed occur and is reliably available to almost everyone at least a few times. It wont happen every time and it will stop happening at all, and opiate addiction is generally a living hell. But that rush is real, just not reliable and may only occur the first few times.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22168404 - 08/31/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I've done it twice now...never could find a better show....sigh


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Rewindicus]
    #22168417 - 08/31/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

say goodbye to your friend.


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OfflinePsilosoulful

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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: abductee]
    #22168438 - 08/31/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Breaking Bad hell yeahh!! :rockon:


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22168451 - 08/31/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

@Ranout, do you think someone else would not get as far as just trying it twice? I've heard and seen its really addictive, but knowing my addictive personality never thought about doing it.


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: abductee]
    #22168456 - 08/31/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Withdrawl looks like a bitch, I get antsy when I dont have smokes.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22168467 - 08/31/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Watch (Heroin testimony like 3 minutes):



--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (08/31/15 10:40 AM)


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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: abductee]
    #22168478 - 08/31/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'd try it once and only once. I don't get addicted to things


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: RanOutOfWeed]
    #22168488 - 08/31/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Really? You have no addictions?

Skeptical but willing to believe, but suspect you may have a few you are not fully recognizing. Do you eat candy, sugar, pop? Drink beer or wine regularly? Smoke? Smoke weed daily? Ever tried to quit meat for six months? Or dairy? Or sugar? Or carbs?

Ever go without TV, internet, cell phone or sex for six months?


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22168494 - 08/31/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I honestly have no addictions right now.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22168510 - 08/31/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Bullshit you are dependent on ADHD meds


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22168523 - 08/31/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Not really. :shrug: I have skipped days using them and am fine. It's not like a physical addiction like with kratom or anything.

Also, using your prescription medically is not really an addiction to me.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/31/15 10:53 AM)


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Invisibleabductee
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22168571 - 08/31/15 11:03 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i was addicted to sex.. but now not so much.. I like growing.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: abductee]
    #22168580 - 08/31/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I find the difference between being 20 and 18 is actually my impulse control is way better.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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Invisibleabductee
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22168595 - 08/31/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

i'm turing 38.. it comes in waves those impulses.lol


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22168610 - 08/31/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

You obviously don't have a valid definition of addiction if you think being prescribed the drug or not makes any difference.

If you need stimulants to function properly (and you do) you are addicted.

If you take benzos or pharmaceutical opiates daily medically you are still very much addicted.

Even someone on a daily antidepressant is an addict.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22169889 - 08/31/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Really? You have no addictions?

Skeptical but willing to believe, but suspect you may have a few you are not fully recognizing. Do you eat candy, sugar, pop? Drink beer or wine regularly? Smoke? Smoke weed daily? Ever tried to quit meat for six months? Or dairy? Or sugar? Or carbs?

Ever go without TV, internet, cell phone or sex for six months?



I basically eat nothing but tubers like sweet potatoes, organs like liver, and cooked green veggies. I basically stopped eating fruit as well

No sugar intake besides maybe a banana post workout. I dont drink alcohol, or smoke weed daily. I smoke maybe once a week maybe twice. I was vegatarian most my life, I am currently more high-starch paleo atm. No dairy at all. I do eat carbs but that isn't really an addiction?

I dont watch TV, and I have no regular sex because I am single. I rarely use my phone

So the two things I have left are green tea in the morning, porn, and the shroomery

But moonshoe; it is completely possible to not be addicted to anything. One has to bubble oneself to do this though


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Moonshoe]
    #22170177 - 08/31/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Im not saying its always perfect all the time, nor do i deny that tolerance and the harms and costs of addiction rapidly outweigh any benefits, just that the romanticized extreme of transcendent euphoria and relaxation does indeed occur and is reliably available to almost everyone at least a few times. It wont happen every time and it will stop happening at all, and opiate addiction is generally a living hell. But that rush is real, just not reliable and may only occur the first few times.




I genuinely don't think it's that great, but then again I have alot less problems with opiates than most other people who I got into it with, though I did and still do suffer greatly because of it.  The problem is the more you like it, the more it becomes a problem, and when people have it in their head that it makes them cool like their role models who do heroin, or it will make them a more complete person somehow, it adds a whole 'nother level of problems.

Quote:

topdog82 said:
...
I dont watch TV, and I have no regular sex because I am single. I rarely use my phone

So the two things I have left are green tea in the morning, porn, and the shroomery

But moonshoe; it is completely possible to not be addicted to anything. One has to bubble oneself to do this though





I don't see why so many people here are convinced they are above addiction :shrug: having or not having addictions doesn't really make you a good or bad person.  Everyone develops unhealthy habits at some point in their life, and to try and deny that is really only possible when you pick and choose what is and isn't an addiction, which is pointless really and in my opinion setting yourself up for trouble.

Sitting around jerking off and posting on the shroomery all day isn't exactly healthy habits :smirk:


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22170984 - 08/31/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Im not saying its always perfect all the time, nor do i deny that tolerance and the harms and costs of addiction rapidly outweigh any benefits, just that the romanticized extreme of transcendent euphoria and relaxation does indeed occur and is reliably available to almost everyone at least a few times. It wont happen every time and it will stop happening at all, and opiate addiction is generally a living hell. But that rush is real, just not reliable and may only occur the first few times.




I genuinely don't think it's that great, but then again I have alot less problems with opiates than most other people who I got into it with, though I did and still do suffer greatly because of it.  The problem is the more you like it, the more it becomes a problem, and when people have it in their head that it makes them cool like their role models who do heroin, or it will make them a more complete person somehow, it adds a whole 'nother level of problems.

Quote:

topdog82 said:
...
I dont watch TV, and I have no regular sex because I am single. I rarely use my phone

So the two things I have left are green tea in the morning, porn, and the shroomery

But moonshoe; it is completely possible to not be addicted to anything. One has to bubble oneself to do this though





I don't see why so many people here are convinced they are above addiction :shrug: having or not having addictions doesn't really make you a good or bad person.  Everyone develops unhealthy habits at some point in their life, and to try and deny that is really only possible when you pick and choose what is and isn't an addiction, which is pointless really and in my opinion setting yourself up for trouble.

Sitting around jerking off and posting on the shroomery all day isn't exactly healthy habits :smirk:



I know. I just feel that mmoonshoe was implying it to be impossible. I was stating most of his preconcieved notions are wrong. One can not be addicted to much at all


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