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OfflineJoem204
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22162948 - 08/29/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

As one ADHD to another ADD Amen.


--------------------
What makes a fool is his inability to take his own advice. ~ William Faulkner


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OfflineTNK
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22163040 - 08/29/15 11:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
I was like him once upon a time. Now on the flipside, if I could go back in time, I would probably knock out the person that shot me up the first time with IV meth.

Do not do it, you are pretty much ruining a life if you help him do this.




This.


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Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: TNK]
    #22163533 - 08/30/15 06:37 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If I did heroin it would be to kill myself

I wouldn't even do it twice, I would buy enough to kill myself the first time and then do it withen the next century, decade, year, holiday vacation, commercial break.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Konyap] * 1
    #22163602 - 08/30/15 07:15 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:uhoh:


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: psi]
    #22164204 - 08/30/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:obama:


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OfflineDetached
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Konyap]
    #22164220 - 08/30/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't read the whole thread but I would rather try smoking h than shooting it up if it was my first go.

With that said, I love opiates but have never touched heroin for that reason. I would have a hard time letting go.

Shooting up dope is a terrible idea. :shrug:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Detached]
    #22164357 - 08/30/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I am saving opiates for when I am old sick or dying. Once my body starts breaking down and I am in Pain etc I will enjoy the hell out of opium, poppy pods,poppy seeds,
Pharmaceutical opiates and heroin.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: psi]
    #22164911 - 08/30/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
Whatever man, IV heroin is serious fucking business. I bet most people who shoot up H end up addicted at some point.

IV heroin, coke and meth are not usually something you do once and say "oh that was nice". That never happens.




Part of that is probably that people who don't have impulse control problems are unlikely to try these things in the first place. Many many people receive IV opiates in medical settings and don't become addicts.



Late, but that's because the majority of IV'd opiates in medical settings aren't enough to reach the bliss Heroin provides it's users. One of (if not THE) most common one used is morphine. I've talked to several people who had surgeries who were not opiate users, and felt pretty much nothing on it. I felt nothing on it and I was getting the "max dose" as often as was possible. However few years later I got my hands on 2 Oxycontins and damn if I wasn't high as hell. If I had any idea how to get my hands on them still, I would be.

If the hospitals were shooting people up with recreational doses of heroin for pain, we'd probably see a lot more addicts being formed from medical treatment than you do with morphine.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22165102 - 08/30/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Trust me, heroin users do not achieve bliss.  It's a temporary sense of relief, which when you're feeling like death can seem like bliss.  The reason some people don't report that opiates made them feel amazing is that they're not as great as some people make them out to be.  It's one of those things where you kinda have to tell yourself it is amazing in order for it to be amazing.

I think if you shot up 10 people who never took an opiate before with heroin that they did not know was heroin, they would not report that they felt intense bliss.  Some kid who hears that heroin is the end-all be-all of drugs, and is looking for such a thing, will do heroin and experience the objective effects as well as placebo effects on top of that.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22165116 - 08/30/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

it's just a sedative high without dizzying alcohol effects most likely lol


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22165119 - 08/30/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:shrug: Heroin is like any drug, some people love them some people don't. Opiates make me feel great, just not the weak ones like Morphine or Vicodin. Oxys were like being wrapped in a blanket of comfort and awesome.. A wool blanket though.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22165121 - 08/30/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hard to say with these hypotheticals I guess, but I think a lot of people have had enough of a taste of opiates/opioids to know that they enjoy them, but still have the presence of mind not to pursue them for recreation because they're aware of the risks.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22165159 - 08/30/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomslip said:
:shrug: Heroin is like any drug, some people love them some people don't. Opiates make me feel great, just not the weak ones like Morphine or Vicodin. Oxys were like being wrapped in a blanket of comfort and awesome.. A wool blanket though.




Heroin and morphine are essentially interchangeable.  Heroin can be used at a lower dose to achieve the same effect in the short term.  Personally I preferred morphine I just needed a larger dose to get high.  I loved the pins and needles feeling, which lots of people find excruciating, but other than that they are both morphine and as far as I know have the same profile of effects aside from differences in speed of onset and halflife.  Lots of tar heroin, or anything that has sat around to long will contain morphine.

Oxycodone is known to have a more selective action from my understanding in what receptors it hits.  It was originally billed as having less side effects as well as being less addictive, but it's very similar.  Like if you took a percocet you might think it is weak, but 2 oxycontins would be at least 40mg oxycodone which is a pretty hefty dose for someone without a tolerance.

They don't use opiates to get people high in hospitals, they use them to treat pain.  Those sorts of doses pose unnecessary risks and they're not necessary to effectively treat pain.  The goal is not to eliminate pain entirely, it is to manage it.

Trying to conflate your understanding of what opiates got you high and how effective different opiates are has kinda lead you to have some misconceptions I think.  You'll figure it out after you waste a dozen years of your life thinking that chasing that high is worth what it will bring you in the end :wink: It doesn't get better than what you've already experienced.  Stronger opiate =/= better feeling for unaddicted people, it is only like that for addicts.


Edited by moonrockmushy (08/30/15 03:14 PM)


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OfflineRewindicus
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22165379 - 08/30/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys been off the site a couple days. Crazy amount of responses! Some very strong opinions too. I think I should at least try to dissuade him but I realize it probably won't do anything. I COULD threaten him by telling his folks or gf. But that's not something I'm interested in doing and likely wouldn't work anyways.

To give you a bit more background I met him a few years ago. He had just gotten into electronic music and was curious about E. I told him ahead of time about safety and risks - not to do more than once a week (better even to wait two weeks!) Proper hydration, eating, bad mixtures, tolerances, ect.

He didn't listen to any of it. Rolled haaard multiple times a week. Within the first couple months he was plugging pills on a weeknight just trying to get high. And even when his tolerance was through the roof he was still rolling taking more and more to feel something and even then it wasn't even enjoyable to him.

Over the past few years he's changed. He's OBSESSED with his phone his attention is always on it and he doesn't smile and laugh much. He's real apathetic about like everything.

Based on my own experience I think he's pretty prone to addictive behaviors and I think he fried his brain from too much E. :shrug:

I think this whole idea is bad bad bad. But its his choice ultimately.


--------------------
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”- Dr. Seuss

"Too much of a good thing, can be wonderful!" - Mae West

"If you have nothing nice to say about anyone, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth





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Offlinekakashi68
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22165477 - 08/30/15 04:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Trust me, heroin users do not achieve bliss.  It's a temporary sense of relief, which when you're feeling like death can seem like bliss.  The reason some people don't report that opiates made them feel amazing is that they're not as great as some people make them out to be.  It's one of those things where you kinda have to tell yourself it is amazing in order for it to be amazing.

I think if you shot up 10 people who never took an opiate before with heroin that they did not know was heroin, they would not report that they felt intense bliss.  Some kid who hears that heroin is the end-all be-all of drugs, and is looking for such a thing, will do heroin and experience the objective effects as well as placebo effects on top of that.




So many people thinking heroin is shit lel. Because they buy garbage tar or %5 powder. Obvs going to be shit. You get the GOOD STUFF and thats when you get the bliss. I literally get an endorphin rush when I listen to "perfect day" because it has such a strong association with heroin. Now some people may not like heroin or downers. But its still opioids and if you take enough you WILL feel a warm fuzzy all encompassing bliss.


--------------------
You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven.
-Bernard Black



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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Rewindicus]
    #22165490 - 08/30/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rewindicus said:
Hey guys been off the site a couple days. Crazy amount of responses! Some very strong opinions too. I think I should at least try to dissuade him but I realize it probably won't do anything. I COULD threaten him by telling his folks or gf. But that's not something I'm interested in doing and likely wouldn't work anyways.

To give you a bit more background I met him a few years ago. He had just gotten into electronic music and was curious about E. I told him ahead of time about safety and risks - not to do more than once a week (better even to wait two weeks!) Proper hydration, eating, bad mixtures, tolerances, ect.

He didn't listen to any of it. Rolled haaard multiple times a week. Within the first couple months he was plugging pills on a weeknight just trying to get high. And even when his tolerance was through the roof he was still rolling taking more and more to feel something and even then it wasn't even enjoyable to him.

Over the past few years he's changed. He's OBSESSED with his phone his attention is always on it and he doesn't smile and laugh much. He's real apathetic about like everything.

Based on my own experience I think he's pretty prone to addictive behaviors and I think he fried his brain from too much E. :shrug:

I think this whole idea is bad bad bad. But its his choice ultimately.



I would say bring it up 1-3 times but no more than that.

I found the best way to give advice is "Hey buddy...(insert positive compliment here)"

Then begin explaining the issue in an objective manner

Sadly he mst likely wont listen so thats really that


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Rewindicus]
    #22165745 - 08/30/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kakashi68 said:
...
So many people thinking heroin is shit lel. Because they buy garbage tar or %5 powder. Obvs going to be shit. You get the GOOD STUFF and thats when you get the bliss. I literally get an endorphin rush when I listen to "perfect day" because it has such a strong association with heroin. Now some people may not like heroin or downers. But its still opioids and if you take enough you WILL feel a warm fuzzy all encompassing bliss.




How would you know what I get?

It totally doesn't sound like your romanticizing the drug at all :rolleyes: I'll trust your judgement in that listening to Lou Reed is similar to doing heroin.  I'm just saying that people ideas and preconceptions about heroin do make a difference in the experience they have, and people who have an attitude that disregards the potential consequences for momentary relief are oftentimes shortsighted and prone to  being overly dramatic when it comes to the supposed greatest feeling ever.  If that is the best thing you can imagine, I feel bad for you.  Things can only get worse, and hopefully you learn to cope without downers before they ruin your body and life.

Quote:

Rewindicus said:
...
I think this whole idea is bad bad bad. But its his choice ultimately.




Your post certainly isn't reassuring.  I think he should have access to enough harm reduction information working at a methadone clinic.  Some people just get it in their head that disregarding their own long-term well-being is a sacrifice they're willing to make for heroin, because it's supposedly that good.  I don't think there's any point in investing alot of energy to talk them out of it, they'll just end up resenting you, and it can create an unhealthy co-dependent relationship.

I always kinda compared it to the feeling you get when you wake up early with things to do, and getting in bed just feels so good.  Then you wake up later that day and feel like shit because you missed out.  For some people it's worth it, they'll fuck up a good job just because that bed feels so good, but the longer you lay there the worse it feels.  That isn't what life is about, and only someone immature with no vision or integrity would think that sleeping in is a valid excuse to miss out on something you otherwise feel is important.

If you're a weak-willed person who has a hard time prioritizing things for yourself, heroin will fuck with your life.  If you're not, you'll most likely find that it's not all it's cracked up to be.


Edited by moonrockmushy (08/30/15 06:10 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #22167983 - 08/31/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I dont think its realistic to imagine that heroin and other opiates are based even moderately on any kind of placebo effect. They quite obviously have the reputation of providing a transcendent rush of relaxation, euphoria, and bliss, transcending the potential of many/most other drugs, precisely because they do indeed provide that for a substantial majority of users and possibly every user at adequate doses.

To me denying the "amazingness" of a good opiate rush is a bit like holocaust denial in the sense of being totally unbelievable to most based on the amazing preponderance of anecdotal and experiential/factual/medical evidence.

If you say "its really just a meh sedating feeling" I would assume that would refer to a lower dose or lower quality, and suspect that if you took a high enough dose of opium, heroin, oxycontin etc you would be drooling with obscene pleasure like everyone else.

That said I have never done any opiates except kratom, and kratom has given me some of the greatest euphoria of my life that is no means "meh" , and opiates other then kratom would obviously be stronger.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineRanOutOfWeed
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22168073 - 08/31/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I have a friend who WANTS to try shooting up heroin............. [Re: RanOutOfWeed]
    #22168121 - 08/31/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

:cool:

about time for me to rewatch that show from episode 1 :evil:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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