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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: You should still pasteurize/cook your Vermiculite..
Better yet, "bake" in an oven..
Using verm straight out the bag is death..
I never understood this logic.....
You are either applying it to fully colonized contam resistant cakes, or mixing it in with a bulk substrate that's getting pasteurized anyways.
The second the oven door opens the verm is unsterile, so you would have just wasted your time., only to sterilize/pasteurize it again....... 
If someone could explain this logic to me it would be appreciated.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (08/28/15 07:04 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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I've always only ever just used it right from the bag. Besides if you're applying it as a casing (just verm) it being in open air for a few minutes makes it just as dirty or dirtier than it was in the bag.
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158071 - 08/28/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Paranoia?? Do you process your Vermiculite yourself?
Theres no way you can tell what it harbours 100%
Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: You should still pasteurize/cook your Vermiculite..
Better yet, "bake" in an oven..
Using verm straight out the bag is death..
I never understood this logic.....
You are either applying it to fully colonized contam resistant cakes, or mixing it in with a bulk substrate that's getting pasteurized anyways.
The second the oven door opens the verm is unsterile, so you would have just wasted your time., only to sterilize/pasteurize it again....... 
If someone could explain this logic to me it would be appreciated.
Oven bag, cheif
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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smokythebear
mycologicly insane


Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 23
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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I was thinking the same thing, baking would probably be closer to sterilizing and then putting it in an environment far from being sterile didnt make much sense. I've read verm is pretty contam resistant but no real facts backing it up, so I guess I'll just sprinkle it on top straight out of the bag then give it a good mist and put in fruiting conditions. Thanks for the advice and il try to take some decent pics and start a thread when it pins to show my gratitude
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Sounds good
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Brotha, you're talking to two more people who also don't oven or anything their verm. It's really not a necessary step and I'm pretty sure 80-95% of us don't do it 
Vermiculite is sterile and inorganic so the chance of mold grabbing one of these particles and growing on it, especially not to mention it would be on a 100% colonized substrate, is very, very, very, very, very slim.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: Paranoia?? Do you process your Vermiculite yourself?
Theres no way you can tell what it harbours 100%
And sterilizing it twice is still illogical....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158110 - 08/28/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: You should still pasteurize/cook your Vermiculite..
Better yet, "bake" in an oven..
Using verm straight out the bag is death..
I never understood this logic.....
You are either applying it to fully colonized contam resistant cakes, or mixing it in with a bulk substrate that's getting pasteurized anyways.
The second the oven door opens the verm is unsterile, so you would have just wasted your time., only to sterilize/pasteurize it again....... 
If someone could explain this logic to me it would be appreciated.
Quote:
taGyo said: Brotha, you're talking to two more people who also don't oven or anything their verm. It's really not a necessary step and I'm pretty sure 80-95% of us don't do it 
Vermiculite is sterile and inorganic so the chance of mold grabbing one of these particles and growing on it, especially not to mention it would be on a 100% colonized substrate, is very, very, very, very, very slim.
Yupp, I rest my case.
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158115 - 08/28/15 07:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: Vermiculite is sterile and inorganic
No it's not, and no, it's not.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Yupp, I rest my case. 
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
Edited by taGyo (08/28/15 07:31 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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If you can't throw some verm from a bag kept dry and sealed up on top of your substrate with your bare hands, your substrate was the problem
It's an inorganic solid but nothing is sterile unless it's red hot or has been sterilized and in a sealed container to keep it that way
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 17 hours
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158134 - 08/28/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well my bags of verm have holes in them, so they are not sterile......and verm is mined from the earth.....unless there were chemicals added to it, it is organic..
Those sites are wrong....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (08/28/15 07:32 PM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158135 - 08/28/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://books.google.com/books?id=dU7RBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=vermiculite+sterile+and+inorganic&source=bl&ots=q-oTsdruhP&sig=z4I_pFahZ8ZC0-GgtobmeOLR3KY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgKahUKEwiPo5rTks3HAhXCOj4KHZtaCvg#v=onepage&q=vermiculite%20sterile%20and%20inorganic&f=false
I can actually keep going.
During manufacturing it's sterilized so what you're getting in that bag is just fine to use out of the bag. I think where everyone is getting this confusion is you're implying that I said that if I left a bag of open vermiculite outside it would still be sterile...
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
Edited by taGyo (08/28/15 07:34 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158140 - 08/28/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Organic can have more than one definition. It's an inorganic solid. It's organic if you want to prove a point to the crazy libtards and by proving your point you troll that 100% of everything you can experience is organic including your keyboard.
Verm is inorganic because its glass based. Like rocks and diamonds are inorganic. You could call them organic but 99.8% of the time the context they're inorganic.
Verm being inorganic is less ambiguous than tomato and corn being fruits.
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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No offense, but I wont be "throwing" any unpasteurized verm on any of my substrates, so I could care less.
Better safe, than sorry IMO.
Good debate tho,
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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So back on topic.
It can be used straight out of the bag.
Thanks.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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smokythebear
mycologicly insane


Registered: 10/22/13
Posts: 23
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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I dont know why I didnt think of dnr for the pf tek lol. Its pretty much the same thing and I don't think the tek says to bake it but I may be wrong I haven't done cakes yet but I might to test out isolates.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Fantastic Mr. Fox said: No offense, but I wont be "throwing" any unpasteurized verm on any of my substrates, so I could care less.
Better safe, than sorry IMO.
Good debate tho, 
You should try it ,
Run a controlled experiment on two tubs and see if it makes a difference. This hobby isn't about being dead set in your ways, look at Eatyu who just bought oats and tried like five different teks day one lol.
@Smokey You also PC that verm so it doesn't matter whether you bake it or not but once air starts moving in through those holes it's no longer sterile and the verm actually stops the mold spores from getting to the nutritious BRF layer.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Fantastic Mr. Fox
Grass Seed Connoisseur


Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 3,225
Loc:
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Re: Casing layers [Re: taGyo]
#22158169 - 08/28/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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 Yeah, and all thats fine and dandy... Im all for experimentation. I just dont use straight verm anymoreee. Its always Jiffy enriched with extra vermiculite..
Using straight verm would be like taking a step backwards... Furthermore, I get my bags of jiffy for $3, so the switch from straight verm to jiffy w/verm has saved me.. "$$ wise"
-------------------- Giving is all we have, for we're just grateful to be alive

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