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Offlinehcheline
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First monotub, colonization time?
    #22156551 - 08/28/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hi guys and gals.

I got my first monotub going, following this tek.

https://www.shroomology.org/topic/46-how-to-grow-shrooms-in-bulk-monotubs/

I used around 2L of rye berries nocced with spore syringe, spawned to about 8-10L hpoo/coir/verm substrate. Checked once after 7 days, it was looking healthy, lots of surface coverage of myc, maybe 50% from just peaking at the surface, and it looks really wet.

I thought it would be done after another 5 days. I checked again today, total time 12 days, and the surface still isn't completely covered in myc, i'd say it's about 80%. And there are a few really wet spots which appear to be standing water.

Is it too early to worry? Should I give it another 3-5 days and check again?

Or maybe it's getting contam and/or stalling? In that case should I just put into fruiting condition and hope for the best?

Temps were on the lower side last week, i think the ambient is about 22-26, maybe that's reason for slow colonization?

Thanks for any advice!


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22156557 - 08/28/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Pics.

I'm just here to watch :popcorn:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22156897 - 08/28/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

compare it with this tek 12 steps to monotubs and see if yours was off.

and post a pic.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: spacechildo]
    #22157140 - 08/28/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The guy who wrote that tek is a dumbass......my god..... 


Quote:

Dumbass from Shroomology said:
5 gallon bucket
large tote (for mixing sub in not the monotub)
1/2 brick of Coco Coir
Pot to boil water in
6 qts COARSE grade vermiculite
4 qts cmc/HPOO (Cow manure compost/ Horse Poo)
Hydrated/Pickling lime
8 cups of water.
Large oven bag
16qt(or larger) Pressure cooker
Coco Coir can be found in Petsmart or any pet store that sells reptiles. It is used for reptile/arachnid bedding.

Bring 8 cups of water to a boil.
Cut brick of coir in half
Put coir in a 5 gallon bucket
Pour boiling water over coir
cover with the bucket lid or a towel for 15 min
stir coir up so that it is all broken up, evenly distributed, and fluffy
Allow coir to sit for 1 hour, covered, to hydrate fully.

While the coir is cooling, move to the next part of sub prep

Pour 4qts of cmc/Hpoo into a large tote for mixing.
Add 2 TSP of lime (to buffer PH of poo and coir. it is required for multiple flushes).
Mix as well as humanly possible.
Add 6 Qts of COARSE grade verm. (YES it must be coarse grade)





First of all, coarse grade verm is the worst option....fine verm is a lot better, as it holds more moisture and has more nutrients and more surface area.....

To get field capacity for 1 brick(650g) of coir + 3qts of verm you would need roughly 160 ounces of water.

He is using a half of a brick of coir, 4qts of manure, and 6qts of verm, but only using 64 ounces of water.....:rolleyes:

Lime is not needed at all.....it IS NOT required for multiple flushes.....that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.....


Edited by PussyFart (08/28/15 03:17 PM)


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: PussyFart]
    #22157146 - 08/28/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't want to be the one to go through that whole shit PF.

Thanks :lmafo:


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22157204 - 08/28/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:facepalm:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: cronicr]
    #22157316 - 08/28/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeah I've done that to shroomology's 6qt dub-tub "tek",or how to fuck up your grow before it even started "tek".
that whole site is just :wow:


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: PussyFart]
    #22157319 - 08/28/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

&& Lime is for casings not bulk; lime usually has Mg, which is generally bad for mycelium


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22157440 - 08/28/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If they are colonizing best thing to do is leave them alone. Cover your tubs with a blanket and let them sit at least two weeks or more If they are good sized tubs that is. You want high co2 levels when colonizing.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: GoldenToadstool]
    #22157451 - 08/28/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenToadstool said:
If they are colonizing best thing to do is leave them alone. Cover your tubs with a blanket and let them sit at least two weeks or more If they are good sized tubs that is. You want high co2 levels when colonizing.



A blanket? Two weeks? You mean foil or maybe a lid? If I had a tub colonize in two weeks I'd say it has a problem.

First post :lol:


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Offlinehcheline
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: Fantastic Mr. Fox]
    #22157463 - 08/28/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

haha, oh man, well I really didn't spend enough time to do research then, I just found what seemed like an easy to follow tek that seemed to work for someone else.

I'll take some pics in a few days, I'd like to avoid opening it too often.
It's got foil and a lid right now.

Thanks for all the comments. :laugh:

Edit:

I read Frank's 12 step guide and tried to compare the differences.

I can get rye grain spawns fully colonized pretty reliably now so that step is fine.

I didn't know about dunking the grains before spawning to bulk when I did my 2 first tubs, so that'll be for the next experiment.

It seems the spawn to sub ratio is roughly 1:1? He made 12qts of spawn, 1 brick of coco + 2 qts of verm, and I believe 1 brick coco comes out to around 8 qts.
So in that case my spawn to sub ratio is way way off, that could account for the slower colonization time.

There's no mention of using poo in Frank's tek, I'm assuming all the nutrition of the sub comes from the coir? Because verm is mostly a mineral right?
Is there a big difference between a tek that uses poo + coco/verm and one without poo?

He also doesn't do a 140-160f boiling pasteurization stage for the sub, I watched the "Let's Grow" videos a few times and the part about preparing bulk sub contains the pasteurization, so I did mine the same way for one tub, the other I sterilized the sub in a PC, because I don't know better, and also just to experiment and see what happens.

It seems it's enough to just pour boiling water into the sub?

What I'm wondering is, if I did something so different from what you guys consider to be ideal, and it's still colonizing steadily, that means cubes are just really really tolerant to variables in growth conditions, right? Or maybe I got lucky somehow, somewhere.

In any case, I would like to follow Frank's tek closely for the next run and see what happens regardless of what happens with this tub. Always fun for me to learn something, even through spectacular failures.

I appreciate all the help and pointers I can get along the way though, so keep 'em coming! :smile:


Edited by hcheline (08/28/15 04:57 PM)


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Invisiblenobody83
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22158013 - 08/28/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You don't really need high Co2 neither


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: nobody83]
    #22158020 - 08/28/15 07:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You need high CO2 to colonize properly, or rather low O2. Fresh air stimulates pinning. You don't want that during colonizing.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22158030 - 08/28/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Low o2 yes but ime no need for high Co2


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: nobody83]
    #22158034 - 08/28/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well the myc gives off the CO2 so high CO2 may not be needed but it's a result regardless :shrug:

What makes you say high CO2 is not needed?


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22158041 - 08/28/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
You need high CO2 to colonize properly, or rather low O2. Fresh air stimulates pinning. You don't want that during colonizing.



You don't want it, but it's not gonna pin until it's fully colonized regardless...


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: PussyFart]
    #22158054 - 08/28/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
Quote:

taGyo said:
You need high CO2 to colonize properly, or rather low O2. Fresh air stimulates pinning. You don't want that during colonizing.



You don't want it, but it's not gonna pin until it's fully colonized regardless...



My first tub I didn't mix my spawn, I layered it all on one layer and I left it like that until I saw a bunch of tiny white dots and then I posted the picture and was told it was trich.

Then I woke up the next morning and saw a pin. Sub wasn't even near fully colonized top or bottom. I think this was just myc expanding to it's maximum and then given proper environment:



No contam, flushed two more times until it couldn't.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22158373 - 08/28/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Well the myc gives off the CO2 so high CO2 may not be needed but it's a result regardless :shrug:

What makes you say high CO2 is not needed?



When i stopped taping holes and stuffing the holes the same as a fruiting tubs but top holes just a tad bit mo tight to keep the evap line from getting to crazy to prevent drying. Your perdy ass tub speaks for itself as well my friend


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Offlinehcheline
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: nobody83]
    #22197161 - 09/06/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I let the first tub go for another week, it was total 3 weeks when I checked again.
I also checked the second tub which I started 1 week after the first at the same time, so total incub for that is 2 weeks.

The first one stank in one area when I opened up the tin foil, it was the area which I'd previously observed a lot of standing water. It developed some contam, there was a small patch of cobweb, and some yellow liquid stuff where the smell came from.

I noticed that there are spots of standing water with yellow coloration spread out on the surface of the substrate, which is now almost fully colonized, except for the area surrounding the contam.

I noticed there were water still trapped between where the pieces of foil overlapped, I did that becaus I didn't have foil wide enough to cover the whole thing with, so I used multiple overlapping pieces.

I'm guessing the contam comes from the water, so I took a knife and cut out the area with the contam down to about 1" deep into the sub, and threw it away. After that the tub smelled only of fresh mushrooms. So I put it into fruiting condition, and now I'm waiting to see what happens.


The second smaller tub also had the same thing, several spots of water, on this one there is no bad smell yet, and not all the water spots were yellow, some were still very clear, some had a yellow tint, but weren't a intense yellow looking goo like in the first tub. I guess it was heading in the same direction as the first tub, so I took a piece of fresh paper towel, dabbed away the standing water bits, using a fresh piece of paper for each dab, and then put it into fruiting condition.

I'm guessing maybe it was a bad idea to put the foil on?

Any thoughts?


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Offlinehcheline
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22226428 - 09/12/15 10:01 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

ok, so it's been 5 days since I performed the "surgery" last time.
I placed only very loose pillow stuffing in the holes and put a small fan running near it, not directly as the tub.

Here's the big tub, 57L. The area i cut out with the severe contamination has since been fully colonized again with myc. There is still some yellow colorations around the tub, but they don't seem to be changing, and there's no smell.





This is the area I performed "surgery" on.


Here's a close up of the water droplets collecting all over the surface.
The yellow stuff looks unhealthy to me, but they're not developing or producing a smell.
Is this because the myc has a strong enough hold that it's stopping contam from spreading?


This spot hasn't changed much for the last 2 weeks, I wonder what's stopping myc from colonizing here?



Here is the small tub, 27L.

As you can see lots of water collecting on the surface.
Is this bad?






The whole surface has gotten more fluffy and more "bumpy" since I placed the loose pillow stuffing and a fan nearby, same as the big tub.

FYI total colonization time 3 weeks for the big tub, 2 weeks for small tub. Then 5 days of what I think is "fruiting condition", ie a few spray + fan in the first day, then loose pillow stuffing and fan in vicinity.

Any advice?

Cheers!


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Offlinehcheline
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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22230092 - 09/13/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Anyone?


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22230255 - 09/13/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Looks super dry man, needs a good mist. You have pooling water where you should have tiny droplets all along the sub. Tighten up the top holes:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17332777


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22288771 - 09/25/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

New progress







so the small tub is pinning and fruiting

but so far there seems to be very little pins, and most of them are not growing very fast.

i've got 4 that are some what large, about 10-12 cm long and 1.5cm or so in diameter, all the rest are what you see in the pics.

Some discoloration had developed in the last few days.
I think i let it get dehydrated? I should've probably did what taGyo said sooner.

I plugged the top holes tighter now, will it recover?

Thanks for checkin'!


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22288777 - 09/25/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Needs another mist. At this point just mist whenever you see there is no water. It needs a good dunk after your first flush.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22288789 - 09/25/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Is that like a laundry basket? Those are all holes?


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22288815 - 09/25/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
Is that like a laundry basket? Those are all holes?



:lol:.... :lolz0rz:....:lmafo:....:laugh2:

I'm done.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22288943 - 09/25/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

lol, yeah, I wanted to try something after spending forever cutting holes out of my first tote, so for the second setup I got a laundry basket, and just taped off the ones I didn't need.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22288958 - 09/25/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Yea thats probably your problem. That and/or your bottom poly is too loose.

I try to dial in my tubs so there is surface condensation over the whole sub, except *just* around the bottom poly the condensation starts to dry up. That way I know Im giving all the FAE possible, any more will start causing dry spots

So if you are still getting a dry sub, maybe tape up all but 4 holes w poly on the bottom, and stuff them very tightly, and only 2 holes on top, stuff loosely. Is the typical monotub.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: mushpunx]
    #22293303 - 09/26/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Alright, I've since taped up some holes and tightened all the stuffing, keeping the top a bit looser than the bottom.

Now i've got condensation all over except the around the holes.

Let's see what happens.

I'll probably make another fruiting chamber that has the exact same holes as frank's tek and compare how well that works.

Thanks for the advice!!


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22303036 - 09/28/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Hey guys:

I'm back again with all kinds of noobishness, hope you can tolerate some more. ^^

So I readjusted the FAE holes according to frank's 12 step, and let it sit for the last days, but nothing was happening, there's still only a handful of pins that didn't develop at all, which made me worried.

On top of that, I noticed little bugs scampering out of the crack between the bag and the sub, and they were flying around! I think they were cockroaches.

I thought maybe it's this infestation that was preventing the pinning, so I decided I'll dunk the whole thing in a diluted bleach solution, to rehydrate and maybe kill some of the baddies. When I pulled up the corner of bag, I noticed that there were full grown fruit bodies stuck between the lining and the bag. I then peeled up the sides all around, and turns out there were lots of fruits, some were fully developed even, I picked it all out and it's probably around 1kg worth.

I guess the lack of surface moisture made them fruit into where the moisture was at?

Any advice?

I think I'm starting to have a slight grasp on the effect of FAE and RH now, hopefully next time will go better.

P.S. For the roaches, I have no idea how they got there, could some eggs have been hiding in the hpoo or coir? Or they were laid after spawning?
Maybe I need to protect the fruiting chamber perimeter with some baking powder + sugar mix? 


Edited by hcheline (09/28/15 02:02 PM)


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22303078 - 09/28/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like you had fungus gnats and improper environment, causing the sides to become prime pinning locations.

Not sure about the gnats but you hit the needle with the hammer on why it pinned down there.


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22303566 - 09/28/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ah, yes they do look like gnats. How harmful are they?

Any precautions I can take against them?

I have a few more jars of grain that are almost colonized, I hope I can get the RH/FAE ratio better this time.

Thanks a lot for the help!


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: hcheline]
    #22304173 - 09/28/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Get better FAE, gnats become a problem and continue to be a problem. Don't fruit that tub where you're gonna be fruiting other things. They have very short life cycles but lay a lot of eggs.

I'd post your question about gnats here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/235

:cheers:


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Re: First monotub, colonization time? [Re: taGyo]
    #22348934 - 10/08/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

Just a tip from a fellow noob who has spent a lot of time trying to improvise myself. Find a good guide, Frank's monotub guide is an amazing place to start and follow it exactly.  I didn't have a really successful grow until I stopped pretending I knew anything about mycology. You'll learn a lot during your first good grow.


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