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OfflineBitter Cactus
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If you care about your health you should drink alcohol
    #22155994 - 08/28/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"- One of the most contentious issues in the vast literature about alcohol consumption has been the consistent finding that those who don't drink tend to die sooner than those who do.

-  abstaining from alcohol does tend to increase one's risk of dying, even when you exclude former problem drinkers. The most shocking part? Abstainers' mortality rates are higher than those of heavy drinkers.

- Moderate alcohol use (especially when the beverage of choice is red wine) is thought to improve heart health, circulation and sociability, which can be important because people who are isolated don't have as many family members and friends who can notice and help treat health problems.

- Even though heavy drinking is associated with higher risk for cirrhosis and several types of cancer (particularly cancers in the mouth and esophagus), heavy drinkers are less likely to die than people who don't drink, even if they never had a problem with alcohol

- That said, the new study provides the strongest evidence yet that moderate drinking is not only fun but good for you. So make mine a double."




People bitch and moan here about alcohol being a hard drug, but for most people it is actually the complete opposite. You end up living longer and honestly a glass of wine a day is good for you. If I were a father and was raising a young boy, I would let him have a few sips of my beer here and there if he wanted to. If you were to ask me whether I would let him try some heroin, my answer would be hell fucking no.

People here act like booze is worse then heroin which is simply not the case for most people. Based on my research and the numerous studies I read, even heavy drinkers are outliving the average non drinkers.

Straight edge folk never have a good way to unwind and clearly people underestimate the power of self medicating with drinking. If I cared more about my health I would start drinking since honestly I rarely drink. I am thinking about starting to drink here and there for the health benefits. I mean, who doesn't want to live longer.

What do you guys think about all this?


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22156011 - 08/28/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

links?...I have heard of studies talking about a glass of red wine helping your heart health....but that is crap about heavy drinkers living longer.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22156013 - 08/28/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I certainly enjoy a couple of beers at the end of the day. I try to not let it become too regular of a habit though because I have had issues with excessive drinking in the past.

I disagree though about it not being a hard drug. It certainly has the potential to be especially in the form of hard liquor. Drink a bottle of whiskey to your face and try to tell me it's not a hard drug.


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Thayendanegea]
    #22156026 - 08/28/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I just googled searched it and took quotes. I don't have the links lol :lol:

This whole issue though is not even up for debate. If you want to live longer, drink a small amount of alcohol. Stress and worrying shortens your life significantly.


I do not consider alcohol a hard drug unless you abuse it badly but even then if you abuse any drug badly you are gonna have a bad time. I think for the vast vast majority of the population, alcohol is a life enhancer rather then a crippling addiction. Even most hardcore alcoholics still function to an extent.

The same could not be said for any meth or heroin user. They poop out sometimes in a matter of months and things spiral way way faster.

I think drinking is a good thing and balance is key.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22156077 - 08/28/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)



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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Bitter Cactus] * 1
    #22156250 - 08/28/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

even just one beer dumbs me down alot, it's not really something i enjoy, but once u're in the groove u hardly notice this dumbing effect and those are usually the best times to drink imho.

fuck booze tho, i just hate how available it is and in extremely large quantities, and idk it really fucks up communities n shit, families, etc., just destroys too many lives nowadays. 


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 4
    #22156282 - 08/28/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think I can end this thread pretty easily;
"Correlation does not equal causation"

also, does it not strike you as coincidental that the three legal drugs all have numerous research showing that they are beneficial?
nicotine helps alziehmers, alc helps aging, and caffiene supposedly helps depression. It sounds to me like people just trying to justify their use

I am not saying you are wrong or even that you are right. I am saying trying to put these behaviors into categories like "this is good" and "this is bad" etc. is silly

After a few glasses of wine I tend to feel groggy in the morning and maybe dry. Alcohol noticably decreases my recovery from workouts. As such, I reduce consumption and try and avoid keeping it in the house

As with red meat, I generally have found eating tons of it daily tends to make me lethargic and low energy. But when I eat it occasionally in small amounts, it makes me feel incredibly satiated, satisfied and happy

With MDMA, I feel that the first few times were magical, but beyond that, psychedelics seems to take me much deeper

I could go on, but spending your time on the internet trying to find scientific studies justifying what is right and wrong is stupidity. You need to find out what works for you. I am a healthnut and I have found that eating less oil and more veggies and grains makes me feel energetic. Others say eating tons of meat makes them feel energetic. Different strokes different folks. Genetics, personality, mindset, careers and family/lifestyle are all factors that come into what choices you want to make

I highly doubt that alcohol actually carries benefits beyond wine. And the same polyphenols that have been shown to benefit humans through wine can be found in berries and grapes. Instead of trying to justify bad habits with studies you could just say "Fuck you all, I enjoy wine". But trying to justify alcohol consumption as improving your health is retarded. Want to improve your health? How about getting the same benefits from veggies and berries instead of beer and wine?

I don't sleep 8 hours because science says it will help. I do it to feel good. I don't eating a largely vegatarian diet because science tells me to. I do it because I feel good eating meat occasionally rather than daily. I don't meditate because doctors say there are benefits, I do it because it helps me become a better person and has changed my life


Edited by topdog82 (08/28/15 11:55 AM)


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Offlinesunkeep
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Registered: 07/21/15
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: zZZz]
    #22156292 - 08/28/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Alcohol is beneficial to some but not all people in low to moderate doses.



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: sunkeep] * 1
    #22156298 - 08/28/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm gonna be immortal.


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Registered: 01/11/11
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22156308 - 08/28/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

My body doesn't like alcohol. It gives me a headache, nausea and terrible insomnia. Different strokes for different folks. I do other things to relax. :shrug:


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OfflineAchillita
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Registered: 05/26/14
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: zZZz] * 2
    #22156311 - 08/28/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Also, how drinking effects your body can depend heavily on your ancestry. It's mostly people with ancestry from places that didn't have alcohol until fairly recently which really can lead to liver problems or heavy alcoholism.

Like indigenous people in the Americas have a higher chance for alcoholism and heavy liver damage as alcohol only popped up relatively recently. Or certain groups in africa, asia, and indigenous australians.

Also, if alcoholism runs in the family, it's best to stay away from that.

But IMO, the worst thing that alcohol can cause is violence, or at least the lowered inhibition to let violence come out. Abusive parents or significant others are more likely to drink.

But of course alcohol can be used in moderation. But IMO, people need to be educated a bit more about alcohol, as it is a drug and many people overdose on it daily.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: topdog82]
    #22156321 - 08/28/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You shouldn't say F-You to science, man. It's good to think critically about stuff on your own, but you should also try to benefit from the more disciplined and much broader critical thought of other people. That's what science is about.


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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #22156418 - 08/28/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not gonna be tasting alcohol for the next 3 years. It's hard cause my mom runs a winery and my dad loves vodka (more than I do). Anytime I'm around family, alcohol is flowing.
Never had a history of alcoholism in the family either.

I enjoy moderate drinking, but I'm abstaining for other reasons.


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InvisibleBlackWidow
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` [Re: Mr.GuessWork] * 3
    #22156419 - 08/28/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

`


Edited by BlackWidow (02/03/21 03:39 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: BlackWidow] * 3
    #22156448 - 08/28/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This is a false positive.

People who don't drink alcohol often don't drink to compensate for poor health, which means they are less healthy to begin with.

When you drink alcohol it gets metabolized via acetaldehyde, a carcinogen. Thus, every sip of alcohol equals a splash of carcinogen entering your body. Alcohol is also a simple toxin, that kills brain cells. We know this people!

People who drink alcohol daily are positively correlated with becoming alcoholics later in life.

Please show me proof that daily use of alcohol is correlated with an actual pharmacological health benefit.

Last piece I read on it made clear there is no such research.

Alcohol is one of the worst drugs to be addicted to. It kills in large numbers.

I drink a few glasses a month. Problematic alcohol use is an issue in my family, on my fathers side.



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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Asante]
    #22156510 - 08/28/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
This is a false positive.

People who don't drink alcohol often don't drink to compensate for poor health, which means they are less healthy to begin with.

When you drink alcohol it gets metabolized via acetaldehyde, a carcinogen. Thus, every sip of alcohol equals a splash of carcinogen entering your body. Alcohol is also a simple toxin, that kills brain cells. We know this people!

People who drink alcohol daily are positively correlated with becoming alcoholics later in life.

Please show me proof that daily use of alcohol is correlated with an actual pharmacological health benefit.

Last piece I read on it made clear there is no such research.

Alcohol is one of the worst drugs to be addicted to. It kills in large numbers.

I drink a few glasses a month. Problematic alcohol use is an issue in my family, on my fathers side.





This 100%

Drink if you want to drink. Be mindful of the research on both sides of this issue, and understand the difference between responsible use and abuse


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Asante]
    #22156533 - 08/28/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Agreed. People that are diabetic can't drink because it can kill them. Moderate drinking for diabetics would not "increase their life spans."


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #22156699 - 08/28/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

drinking is just something to get people together and then send them flying apart in the opposite directions later


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: Konyap]
    #22156817 - 08/28/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I drink kombucha. No way getting drunk is healthy, since it is the result of overloading your liver with alcohol, which takes days to recover from


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: If you care about your health you should drink alcohol [Re: BlackWidow]
    #22156922 - 08/28/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BlackWidow said:
Correlation does not equal causation.

What these studies are saying is that drinking at an older age is associated with decreased mortality, not that alcohol itself decreases your mortality. The association is likely caused by the fact that people that drink at an older age are probably already healthier in the first place, than the ones who stay home and not ever go out. This is called a confounding variable.

Another example is owning 2 or more cars is associated with greatly increased health. Did that second car really increase their health? No, it's that fact that only wealthier people can afford multiple cars. And wealth has always been correlated with increased health due to availability of healthier foods and access to better healthcare.




Most of these large-scale studies are correlational ones. with a big enough sample size you can probably address most of the obvious factors like health problems and socioeconomic status. These studies seem to have tried to address some of those concerns, and it looks like moderate alcohol consumption doesn't seem to have a significant impact on the death-rate of most people. The study cited in the article didn't look at quality of life or anything like that, but it suggests that somebody can generally have a few beers after work everyday and not be any worse off than a temperance-era Sunday-school teacher. A correlation study provides more confidence in a claim than than wives tales do.

Can anybody post a study that shows a causal or strong correlation relationship between moderate alcohol use and mortality or the morbitity of certain diseases? If not, then you guys haven't got much to stand on to back up all these claims that alcohol use is bad. (the higher addiction risk is a reasonable example of a negative that can associated with moderate use, asante). I haven't really looked into the issue either, but I'm perfectly willing to see evidence for either side.



Quote:

4HO-DMT said:
Agreed. People that are diabetic can't drink because it can kill them. Moderate drinking for diabetics would not "increase their life spans."




I'm a diabetic, and I drink moderately without any problems. All the diabetics that I know drink too, and they don't have any problems with it either. Moderate drinking does no specific harm to diabetics that I'm aware of. Heavy drinking to the point of black out is dangerous because a blacked out person can't respond to a low blood glucose level with anything other than a seizure, and not taking insulin for any sugar in the alcohol (which is not listed on nutrition labels god dammit) can cause hyperglycemia, which has long-term health effects that are bad, but aside from those two things, drinking is pretty manageable for diabetics, and I'd expect them to get the same pros and cons from alcohol use that anybody else gets.


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