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InvisiblehTx
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ToE
    #22154374 - 08/27/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I made my first ever post here about a realization i had about reality.
Some of you may remember that thread on novelty and the passion i had in discussing the idea here. I genuinely thought i was the first person to break down reality in such a way..at its most fundamental it seems quite objective and i feel it is.
However, in a rush to explore this idea i ignored the true originator of the idea, Terrence McKenna.

I have been reading and listening to him recently and he nailed it.
Almost every idea i had is in relation to his, unknowingly.

There are some areas where ive refined the theory a bit but he was definitely first i believe, and i believe the theory is as close to a ToE as we may possibly get.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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OfflineRennHuhn
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22155545 - 08/28/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

ToE?Whats that. And if you like McKenna, read about his doubts about his theories later in his far to short life.

Quote from http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/was-psychedelic-guru-terence-mckenna-goofing-about-2012-prophecy/

But did he really think the apocalypse would arrive on December 21, 2012? "Well..." McKenna hesitated. "No." He had merely created one mathematical model of the flow and ebb of novelty in history. "It's a weak case, because history is not a mathematically defined entity," he said. His model was "just a kind of fantasizing within a certain kind of vocabulary." McKenna still believed in the legitimacy of his project, even if his particular model turned out to be a failure. "I'm trying to redeem history, make it make sense, show that it obeys laws," he said.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22155650 - 08/28/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think a theory of everything is possible.  It seems to me that the universe is like an onion with an infinite number of layers, and as soon as you get to what you think is the fundamental level, there are levels beyond that, forever.  It's just a pipe dream of zealous physicists who want to be the next Einstein.  Fictitious.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22155795 - 08/28/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I don't think a theory of everything is possible.




Seconded. It seems pompous and arrogant (or should I just say human?) to me to believe we could ever establish one.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22155980 - 08/28/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I don't think a theory of everything is possible.  It seems to me that the universe is like an onion with an infinite number of layers, and as soon as you get to what you think is the fundamental level, there are levels beyond that, forever.  It's just a pipe dream of zealous physicists who want to be the next Einstein.  Fictitious.



probably not, but novelty theory gets as close as possible in that it describes a sort of cosmological universal truth.

I dont think he truly believed his whole Dec. 21 2012 theory, he probably used the date as a ploy to get his ideas out there so to speak.

But listening to him speak on novelty, evolution, and complexity its quite lucid and due to coming to my own understanding about it before really delving into his own..

I can only say he must be right.

The evidence that popped up earlier this year about how quantum entanglement is fundamental to time supports the theory, and is well, sort of duh when you understand novelty theory and apply it to every possible thing in the universe.

It doesn't really explain much as to why, but it reveals a definite structure.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #22156024 - 08/28/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I don't think a theory of everything is possible.  It seems to me that the universe is like an onion with an infinite number of layers, and as soon as you get to what you think is the fundamental level, there are levels beyond that, forever.  It's just a pipe dream of zealous physicists who want to be the next Einstein.  Fictitious.



But really, novelty is quite fundamental, isnt it?

The idea is sort of abstract, that is to say "How can "newness" be a fundamental property of the universe?"

Well, its happening always in the present and it accelerates due to the complexification of matter, language, ideas, technology, diversity...  it leaves in its wake all of history.

I don't think there is a 'trancedental object at the end of time" as he described it, rather, I feel this object is at the center of time.

In the present, there is a singularity of novelty occuring always, that increases its "size" so to speak much like a black-hole as time marches forward...

I think whats really happening is the progression of history from a linear, mostly predictable fashion, towards a non-linear, unpredictable trajectory. One where we may not even recognize our own species in as little as 50 years.


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156066 - 08/28/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I essentially agree with you; it could be that novelty/increasing correlation through entanglement/complexifying implicate order, whatever, is a fundamental process.  But is there a bottom to it?  Could you formulate a mathematical theory that would be finite and still contain it?  I'm just thinking more in terms of my belief that the universe is multifacetedly infinite, but I definitely sympathize with your view.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22156137 - 08/28/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Novelty is a tough thing to quantify so I think you may be right that even though it helps in understanding the universe..a mathematical theory would be really quite difficult..although if someone could do it I think this would be a solid direction to follow.

However, I think Godel and Bohm touched on the mathematics of novelty and complexity in a much more objective way than say, terrence did with his timewave zero.

Godels incompleteness theorems could be reunderstood as a description of the universe, rather than a limit on our own modeling of the universe (really it could be both).

When you look at it with novelty theory in mind, it really makes sense this way.


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Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156147 - 08/28/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Agree


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156210 - 08/28/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's a great movie:thumbup:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156281 - 08/28/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just out of curiosity hTx, how do you conceptualize the relationship between entanglement and time?  I've been familiar with the correlation for some time, but one rarely sees it boiled down, so I was just wondering what your personal perspective might be.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #22156480 - 08/28/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Just out of curiosity hTx, how do you conceptualize the relationship between entanglement and time?  I've been familiar with the correlation for some time, but one rarely sees it boiled down, so I was just wondering what your personal perspective might be.



I remember I was in one of my "thinking" modes all day and I was thinking about time and how to break it down into something fundamental and objective.
Well the best I could come up with was that time is essentially a measure of change, and change in the universe consists of the complexifying process as described by McKenna.
I described it as custom (the past) + novelty (present interaction of past events) = evolution (time)

Lets call all happenings, objects and interactions in the universe 'events' well what is happening is that in the present, there seems to be a sort of force of novel events, where the interaction of all prior events is happening creating novel events which become "stuck" or built upon..In entanglement, every 'event', every particle becomes connected to every other particle or 'event' that crosses its path..even across vast distances, instantly.

in the quantum world we can say the wave collapses into a definite one or the other and that events in the present stack on top of the collapsed wave function of the past. If the universe started from something essentially very very tiny, then the entire universe is essentially quantum entangled particles.

There is a sort of evolution occurring in the present where many possible events arise at once, but ultimately collapse into one arrow of time. This process leads to time as we know it..and I feel is the real reason behind the accelerating expansion of the universe.

Not the big bang, at least not how many physicists today picture the big bang.

It was definitely a 'big bang' of creation and expansion of time-space, but that can be attributed to the accelerating complexity nature of the universe.


Edited by hTx (08/28/15 01:06 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156540 - 08/28/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Very well. :thumbup:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: ToE [Re: hTx]
    #22156550 - 08/28/15 01:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think quantum theory sort of helps prove novelty as a force or goal of the universe as well.

If you think about it, there is always some sort of novelty inherent in every atom or electron we try to observe, as a predicable, linear understanding of the quantum just isn't even possible.

It seems at the source of the quantum is this weirdness of novelty occuring just because it can or must.

A particle hardly ever does what we think it will do. It will tunnel through walls, it can be spin in two directions at once, it knows when we are watching it.

And I think this is because ultimately we are attempting to catch the singularity of novelty (which is literally that what cant be known because it changes so much and so fast) happening all around us. Our very perception imposes a sort of custom or past happening upon it and I feel this is why particles behave so strangely..doing something entirely else, existing in superposition ( a state of ultimate novelty if you think about it), until the act of observation.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: ToE [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22156592 - 08/28/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I am all for idealism(s) I just wonder about its "true location"  :-)

Quote:

When I was just a little boy
I threw away all of my action toys
While I became obsessed with Operation

With hearts and minds and certain glands
You gotta learn to keep a steady hand
And thus began my morbid fascination

Tore the spines from out of all of these self-help books
Made myself a gun that not only shoots but looks
So real
Yeah it shoots through steel
With rays of darkmatter
Rays of darkmatter

Do you wonder where the self resides
Is it in the head or between your sides
And who would be the one who will decide
Its true location

And does the thought of all this red and black
Thought of tongues that taste you back
Fill you with the nausea of elation

The noose is loosed around our necks made of DNA
And every day it's growing tighter, no matter what they do or say
Well, you can shoot right through with rays of darkmatter
Just before they kick out
They kick out the ladder
With rays of dark matter

Do you wonder where the self resides
Is it in the head or between your sides
And who would be the one who will decide
Its true location






:-)


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