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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Desire
#22152011 - 08/27/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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How does one temper it?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 1,303
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Habit. Just don't give in to it and you will experience it less strongly.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Overindulgence is the answer.
Eat three large pizzas at a single sitting and you will learn to hate pizza!
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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You might try watching desire with a wondering attitude. It is pretty strange and wonderful after all, these feelings that arise from who knows where and wax and wane for a while and then fall away and come back and on and on.Maybe if you start getting fascinated by the weirdness of the state you call "having a desire" you will not find them as troublesome as perhaps now you do.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
Edited by champinhom (08/28/15 09:00 PM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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I find they only tend to wane when analysed for how unrealistic they are. Doesn't stop them popping straight back as soon as my attention wanders though!
If only staying present were an easier task!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 8 minutes, 17 seconds
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personally i have found that cultivating love is a better approach for me than intentionally trying to stop desires. as love increases, i find many desires that are not in line with love begin to drop away (they're seen to be much less desirable) and those that are in keeping with love are usually desires that we don't need to eradicate (such as the desire to help others). this approach to me is a much more self-loving and affirmative one than seeing my desires as a bad part of myself that i need to remedy. in love, everything is accepted and embraced and in doing so, there are no problems remaining
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Desire [Re: deff] 1
#22152241 - 08/27/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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POTM (Post of the Month Award)!
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual




Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Overindulgence is the answer.
Eat three large pizzas at a single sitting and you will learn to hate pizza! 
qft
serious this is how i quit smoking
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Desire [Re: quinn]
#22154255 - 08/27/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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oh yeah also what deff said
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Desire [Re: quinn]
#22154354 - 08/27/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Overindulgence is the answer.
Eat three large pizzas at a single sitting and you will learn to hate pizza! 
qft
serious this is how i quit smoking
You ate three cartons of cigs?
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xammy
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/15
Posts: 13
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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im doing everything i can
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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yes and i never ate a cigarette again
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Desire [Re: deff]
#22155248 - 08/28/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: personally i have found that cultivating love is a better approach for me than intentionally trying to stop desires. as love increases, i find many desires that are not in line with love begin to drop away (they're seen to be much less desirable) and those that are in keeping with love are usually desires that we don't need to eradicate (such as the desire to help others). this approach to me is a much more self-loving and affirmative one than seeing my desires as a bad part of myself that i need to remedy. in love, everything is accepted and embraced and in doing so, there are no problems remaining 
That's a very succinct and beautiful answer deff, thank you for that. I have to admit to being at a bit of a loss as to how to implement it though. I think you mean cultivating love for oneself, and therefore love for ones own desires?
In a practical situation, how would you approach the cultivating of love? For example, if one is feeling overwhelmed by sudden desire for _________, how do you then approach the feeling?
So far, I tend to fall back on common sense, i.e _________ is unnecessary because it will cause xxx problems and will not fulfill me long term. But I really love your way of looking at it, and would really appreciate if you could elucidate somewhat!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 8 minutes, 17 seconds
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yeah it is more of a gradual long-term solution I think than it would be something immediate to help with a strong desire in the moment. I think a lot of self-destructive desires, the ones that people generally want to change, are often a symptom of a lack of self-love. An example that Matt Kahn (a spiritual teacher) gave was with how he helped someone quit smoking. He told them to say to themselves right before they smoked a cigarette each time, "this is the most loving thing I can do for my body". After a couple weeks, the person found they could no longer smoke as they came to the realization that it wasn't a loving action, they had over time changed their subconscious association with smoking.
so in that sense, it can be looked at as a gradual transformation of oneself and one's values by increasing one's love for themselves and others. I find that we can choose in many instances to be more loving, to bring forth the energy and feeling of love to self and others, and to then make choices out of this love. Over time, a transformation occurs where we are in the feeling and motivation of love more often than we are not, and so naturally we make loving choices. In this state, I don't think a mind would be as inclined to generate self-destructive desires, they would naturally fall away.
But yeah, this is a gradual process and doesn't help quite the same in the immediate presence of a strong desire but I think over the long-term it's a more sensible approach, at least to me, than battling with desires. And being loving towards ourself also means we don't beat ourselves up over still having desires, we treat ourselves with compassion and understanding.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: How does one temper it?
Live long enough for it to diminish on its own. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven..." - Ecclesiastes 3:1 In the meantime, the Middle Way. Are you actions compassionate? Will someone suffer as a result of your actions?
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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TEAMSESH
Stranger

Registered: 04/08/15
Posts: 203
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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I knew a girl named desire
she fucked like a pro.
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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power


Registered: 07/18/15
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Cyproterone acetate.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
deff said: I think a lot of self-destructive desires, the ones that people generally want to change, are often a symptom of a lack of self-love.
I think you're spot on there deff. Well said, as usual, and thank you for pointing this out, it gives me a sense of direction.
Quote:
deff said: so in that sense, it can be looked at as a gradual transformation of oneself and one's values by increasing one's love for themselves and others.
Sounds like you and Markos are on the same page:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Live long enough for it to diminish on its own.
So simple! It feels like the truth of the matter to me though. Along with spending that time as deff suggests, and like this:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: In the meantime, the Middle Way.
I had to look that up. I think it's well described thusly:
"Monks, these two extremes ought not to be practiced by one who has gone forth from the household life. (What are the two?) There is addiction to indulgence of sense-pleasures, which is low, coarse, the way of ordinary people, unworthy, and unprofitable; and there is addiction to self-mortification, which is painful, unworthy, and unprofitable.
Avoiding both these extremes, the Tathagata (the Perfect One) has realized the Middle Path; it gives vision, gives knowledge, and leads to calm, to insight, to enlightenment and to Nibbana. And what is that Middle Path realized by the Tathagata...? It is the Noble Eightfold path, and nothing else, namely: right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration."
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Are you actions compassionate? Will someone suffer as a result of your actions?
Again, this sounds so simple. My instant response is 'can it really be so simple?'
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 3 days
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If you sleep with a married woman for example, you participate in her dishonesty (lies, sneakiness, and deception). Should her husband discover the infidelity, he will undoubtedly experience shock, grief, jealousy, and anger. In a word, suffering. You will be the co-conspirator in causing some man real suffering. Then there is the additional possibility of retribution to you and/or his wife. If there are children and divorce occurs, the suffering is imparted to them. The karma may continue to influence how the children regard fidelity when they are older, and from the Buddhist notion of the interdependence of all things, there is no telling how far the consequences of a single act can have. There is no real justification for this selfish act, so you may suffer yourself if you ever realize that the idealistic self-image you cherish is a lie and you come face-to-face with the reality of your true moral fiber. before any such realization, your ego defends itself with all kinds of rationalizations and contemptuous attitudes. Further, if you thought that you had any spiritual aspirations, you'd also realize that they were mere thoughts, not the authentic you.
The Middle Way (or Path), is simply called The Way in Taoism, and is personified by Christ as in "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me - John 14:6 But again, this "way" is the same "Way" of Tao. The "mind of Christ" is the Logos, which one could compare with the Tao as the transcendental organizing principle. Buddhism codifies the Eightfold Path, the Bible has its Sermon on the Mount, and the various teachings throughout the gospels, epistles and acts which convey a sense living a synchronistic life and prohibiting things like drunkenness, fornication, violence, etc. Islam mean 'submission' as in submission to the will of God. Life is lived my prescribed traditions and adherence to tradition is how one submits. Similarly with Orthodox Judaism and its 613 commandments in addition to the Ten Commandments of the Decalogue. Every moment of life has guidelines for remembrance of God.
Personally, I prefer the more loosey-goosy non-codified lifestyles, and among the religious people I've met, I do not sense them being the whole, holy fulfilled beings one would expect from truly spiritual people. Very ritualized religious life seems to be robotic to me and not conducive to living the Middle Way. I do understand that lots of people do not want to be free in an existential way, taking personal responsibility for every act, and so these people take comfort in prescribed ritual. One does not have to think or question, just follow the dictates of the faith. This is the comfort of religion that I see as the Marxist "opiate of the people." A life aimed at the Middle Way requires "Right Effort" and is anything but comforting. One is often at odds with the world and frequently alone. Quelling of desire is the perpetual crucifixion of the ego on the desires of the world, but yet, there is a "peace which passes understanding."
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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