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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Glovebox vs SAB
    #22142875 - 08/25/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I keep hearing about gloveboxes being a bad option for mycology and that sabs are the best. What are the downsides of using a gb? All I've ever used is a glovebox and I have had much success using it. I know flame sterilizing inside an gb is a no no so I just made a flame port in the side of the box. I just keep the torch outside the box and just stick the scalpel through the hole and into the flame. I can see a sab being a little more user friendly but as far as contams go I would think the minimum outside air exposure would be the best option.
 


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OfflineGrim767
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22143071 - 08/25/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Never used a GB but I'd imagine getting hands in and out of gloves would be royal pain. I use a SAB and I find it convenient.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Grim767]
    #22143109 - 08/25/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think there abt equal I'll take the gloves out of mine to do g2g but have the gloves attached when doin agar and syringe work.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: fastlearner]
    #22143379 - 08/25/15 09:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you have a flame port, and you have gloves attached, then you're pulling in air through that hole when you move your arms around.  That's reason enough for me, case closed.

Plus I seen the vets here doing their SAB work with their bare hands or just latex gloves.  Would rather aspire to that, knowing it can work. :shrug:


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Inocuole]
    #22143456 - 08/25/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I've been thinking about switching to an sab but I'm just Leary about huge open arm holes. I live in a semi kinda country area and mold spores are in an abundance and I do all my work on my coffee table. You think my success rate will stay the same using an sab?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22143471 - 08/25/15 10:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
I keep hearing about gloveboxes being a bad option for mycology and that sabs are the best. What are the downsides of using a gb?



This has already been discussed to death, to the fact that it is boring......you could have just done a simple search......

The gloves are attached to the box, meaning it makes tools very hard to get in and out....

The gloves being attached will create a semi sealed vessel, and create drafts when you move your arms that come in and out of the imperfect seals around the box, negating the "still air environment".

If you flame sterilize inside of the box you create heat currents, negating the "still air environment"......
Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
I've been thinking about switching to an sab but I'm just Leary about huge open arm holes.



Use tyvek sleeves......they keep the holes closed.....


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Offlinebluegill
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22143495 - 08/25/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I saw the thread by Roadkill with his SAB and just decided to do the same. Why take extra precaution if it is not necessary? I just built my SAB Sunday night using the PVC drain/caps. :thumbup:


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #22143666 - 08/25/15 10:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I kinda think tyvek sleeves are counterproductive in that they help instill the fear of the arm holes. :shrug:

It's like half-assing the getting over it.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22143704 - 08/25/15 10:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PussyFart said:
The gloves being attached will create a semi sealed vessel, and create drafts when you move your arms that come in and out of the imperfect seals around the box, negating the "still air environment".




True in most cases. But if you really wanna spend the time and money to build a serious SAB that is 100% sealed it'll work. I'm talking sealed wood box, not a plastc tub. Real labs do it. Still have the problem of moving tools in and out, but you could have a shitload of PC'd tools in your box instead.

But an at-home version will cost almost as much as a flowhood in most cases, making it pointless for most of us. If you can get materials for free it'd be worth it. Except it wouldn't IMO, cause those free materials could make a plenum.

Quote:

PinPornProducer said: I live in a semi kinda country area and mold spores are in an abundance and I do all my work on my coffee table. You think my success rate will stay the same using an sab?




Or go up. I basically live in a rainforest. I use a SAB with 99%+ success, and so do a couple other growers I know from around here. When I was having issues with my schmuvbox giving me 90% contams rates, my buddy with a SAB was sailing along growing lbs.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #22144525 - 08/26/15 04:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The gloves being attached will create a semi sealed vessel, and create drafts when you move your arms that come in and out of the imperfect seals around the box, negating the "still air environment".




Quote:

Use tyvek sleeves......they keep the holes closed.....



Wait a minute. So when you have the gloves attached you're creating a semi sealed vessel but when you close the arm holes with the tyvek sleeves you're not?


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Kizzle]
    #22144611 - 08/26/15 06:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's under the assumption that tyvek is breathable enough that movement of those sleeves won't cause a positive or negative pressure in the SAB.

I don't really care to operate under that assumption, more stuff to flap around and make wind. :shrug:


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Inocuole]
    #22144952 - 08/26/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It actually works really well......I have a pair attached to the box, and I wear a pair on my arms.....this is just to stop dead skin cells from my arms from falling into the box....I would not back the idea if it didn't work fantastically....


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #22144972 - 08/26/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Tyvek sleeves attached to the box is basically a glove box...


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145021 - 08/26/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No, it isn't....the gloves do not form a seal, they are breathable, and the elestc ends have been cut off so it makes it easier to work out of.....it's perfect.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PussyFart]
    #22145038 - 08/26/15 08:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

   


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145045 - 08/26/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

whats the reasoning behind the hole with the flame outside? it will just stir up air, a flame needs air to live
and heat makes heat convections..


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: spacechildo]
    #22145083 - 08/26/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It works :shrug:


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145122 - 08/26/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

In the last year I've lost maybe 5 jars and I make alot of spawn jars and my agar plates are clean. I've got 30 plates right now with no signs of contams and any contam on a plate I have seen is from original spore drop and by 2nd transfer it's clean.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145286 - 08/26/15 09:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

SABs are proven to work while flames are proven to make air movements,
what is it that makes you doubt the SABs function?
there's a lot of stuff in this hobby that "works" but it doesnt mean you should do it :shrug:


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: spacechildo]
    #22145367 - 08/26/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Idk man, the whole taking your arms in and out to flame shit kinda worries me I guess.


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145641 - 08/26/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't remember who wrote it, but I read a post a week or so ago where they put an inccense inside the SAB so they could see air movement inside the box then just made adjustments til air movement stopped. Also, keep a couple of alcohol soaked rags or paper towels on hand to wrap your needle in after flaming, it'll keep anything from landing on it until you get it back in the box.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22145659 - 08/26/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thebug76 said:
Also, keep a couple of alcohol soaked rags or paper towels on hand to wrap your needle in after flaming, it'll keep anything from landing on it until you get it back in the box.



Not quite bud.

After flaming your needle a phenomenon called thermoporesis occurs. This repels all airborne contams because of the heat coming off of the needle. You should cool it (Pressing down the plunger) in the box :super:

Quote:

taGyo said:
Alochol SANITIZES, flames STERILIZE. Sterilization means NO germs, mold can survive sanitation.
Don't wipe your needle with alcohol after flame sterilization:

Quote:

swatt_haze said:
wiping a needle with alcohol after flame sterilizing is like rubbing shit on your hands after you washed them and eating a burger.





Flame until the needle is red hot. It will turn black first (because you're using a lighter), then slowly turn red.

Flame sterilize between each JAR, not each inoculation hole. .25 cc a hole for 1cc total each BRF jar.
Grains is 1CC as well.

After flame sterilization gently push down on the plunger. It'll shoot out steam until a drop of liquid comes out. Let the drop gently fall and then push your needle through the hole, making sure to angle it TOWARDS THE GLASS. I look down and check to make sure my needle is against the glass sometimes but you can feel it.

If you push and it feels difficult and nothing's coming out gently pull your needle upward while shooting. BE CAREFUL, this will immediately loosen up your needle and if you're pushing too hard you'll shoot way too many CCs into a hole.




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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: taGyo]
    #22145713 - 08/26/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

taGyo said:
Quote:

thebug76 said:
Also, keep a couple of alcohol soaked rags or paper towels on hand to wrap your needle in after flaming, it'll keep anything from landing on it until you get it back in the box.



Not quite bud.

After flaming your needle a phenomenon called thermoporesis occurs. This repels all airborne contams because of the heat coming off of the needle. You should cool it (Pressing down the plunger) in the box :super:

Quote:

taGyo said:
Alochol SANITIZES, flames STERILIZE. Sterilization means NO germs, mold can survive sanitation.
Don't wipe your needle with alcohol after flame sterilization:

Quote:

swatt_haze said:
wiping a needle with alcohol after flame sterilizing is like rubbing shit on your hands after you washed them and eating a burger.





Flame until the needle is red hot. It will turn black first (because you're using a lighter), then slowly turn red.

Flame sterilize between each JAR, not each inoction hole. .25 cc a hole for 1cc total each BRF jar.
Grains is 1CC as well.

After flame sterilization gently push down on the plunger. It'll shoot out steam until a drop of liquid comes out. Let the drop gently fall and then push your needle through the hole, making sure to angle it TOWARDS THE GLASS. I look down and check to make sure my needle is against the glass sometimes but you can feel it.

If you push and it feels difficult and nothing's coming out gently pull your needle upward while shooting. BE CAREFUL, this will immediately loosen up your needle and if you're pushing too hard you'll shoot way too many CCs into a hole.







I know mold can survive alcohol, but if you flame first, there's no mold there. The alcohol just keeps any spores from landing on the needle afterwards in case you get stalled, such as from a 3 yr old child that's super needy like mine, or any other reason.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22145715 - 08/26/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PinPornProducer said:
It works :shrug:




That just about says it all.

I don't know why you would even ask about another procedure if the one you have is doing it for you. Even if you do change over, you will probably make mistakes with the new set up until you get used to it, and contamination follows mistakes like a dog follows his master--haha.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22145739 - 08/26/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah but alcohol takes 2 minutes to properly dry and evaporate, killing mold spores. You didn't read my thermoporesis explanation, that's the phenomenon you're after. Alcohol will only add shit to your needle.

Read that full post, it's just bad practice. If your 3 year old is running around take care of her first and then work or if she bothers you while working flame the needle again :shrug:

The alcohol as used like this is actually a vector of contam.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: taGyo]
    #22145838 - 08/26/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe I just got lucky. I've had no contams in jars so far except a little bacteria in 2 of them and I think that was in the brf because none of the other pf jars or the wbs had any problems whatsoever. it was the same needle and I noc'd them all at the same time.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22145845 - 08/26/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Grow for a little longer :wink:


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: taGyo]
    #22145929 - 08/26/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yea, I know it's only a matter of time. I've only done a total of 37 jars so far, 36 of which were pf tek (brf and verm) and one wbs which I tyndallized because I don't have a pc yet. Only major problem I had was improper pasteurization of straw when trying to go to bulk with the first 24. I left the straw way too wet and only a single 1/4" hole for ge (major mistake). I threw that out because at the time I didn't know peroxide cured cobweb.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22146063 - 08/26/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I apologize for jumping in on this thread. I burnt one and got talkative. Y'all have a good day. I'm out.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22146100 - 08/26/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Honestly it's fine man. At least you got a good attitude and actually listen to what people say. The thing that is being said is that the flame kills all the contams. Alcohol kills 99.9% of contams. Every inch of air has 200,000 spores in it. 0.001*200,000=200 living spores. Just from an inch of air above your alcohol wipe. What's cleaner? 200 spores or 0 spores? You get 0 spores from a flame and then add 200 from the wipe. It's like taking a shower, and then wiping your face with shit right after


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Edited by Mad Season (08/26/15 12:14 PM)


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Mad Season]
    #22146148 - 08/26/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I get that. I saw the alcohol soaked paper towel thing in a video on youtube 4-5 months back when I first started reading on the subject and it stuck in my head. From what you said though, I should probably get myself out of that habit.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22146280 - 08/26/15 12:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: you won't regret it!

For the OP. A still air box is pretty much useless without being used in a room with fairly still air. By doing so you can have arm holes that are 6"+ without having to worry about drafts. Larger arm holes so when you put your arms in and out, it won't move any air. That and your skinny arms with very little excess material around them, or no material, will also move very little air around. If you do it right, and you have very little air moving around.. the only thing you have to worry about is shit hovering over open media (just your flamed tools are allowed over it). If you do so, you will see no contams.

I could imagine a well sealed glove box out performing a still air box in an open environment with lots of air movement. But if you follow the still air principle, you can have a flame going outside your box, move your arm in with no air movement around the arm holes, flame all your tools when needed, and have a Much better success rate than a glove box. :2cents:


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Edited by Mad Season (08/26/15 12:43 PM)


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Mad Season]
    #22146491 - 08/26/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Skinny arms? Lol


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22146504 - 08/26/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You know what I mean :lol: a lot less of a surface area moving than gloves.


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Mad Season]
    #22146584 - 08/26/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

lol


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Mad Season]
    #22146848 - 08/26/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
:thumbup: you won't regret it!

For the OP. A still air box is pretty much useless without being used in a room with fairly still air. By doing so you can have arm holes that are 6"+ without having to worry about drafts. Larger arm holes so when you put your arms in and out, it won't move any air. That and your skinny arms with very little excess material around them, or no material, will also move very little air around. If you do it right, and you have very little air moving around.. the only thing you have to worry about is shit hovering over open media (just your flamed tools are allowed over it). If you do so, you will see no contams.

I could imagine a well sealed glove box out performing a still air box in an open environment with lots of air movement. But if you follow the still air principle, you can have a flame going outside your box, move your arm in with no air movement around the arm holes, flame all your tools when needed, and have a Much better success rate than a glove box. :2cents:




Last time i tried that i blow up the inside of my SAB nd caught a paper towel soaked in iso on fire almost taking out the living room carpet lol, i think i need to switch to a flow hood cause im not to good with fire i guess, oh well all that matters is my agar is clean now :smile:


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Offlinethebug76
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: kushroom]
    #22146986 - 08/26/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kushroom said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:
:thumbup: you won't regret it!

For the OP. A still air box is pretty much useless without being used in a room with fairly still air. By doing so you can have arm holes that are 6"+ without having to worry about drafts. Larger arm holes so when you put your arms in and out, it won't move any air. That and your skinny arms with very little excess material around them, or no material, will also move very little air around. If you do it right, and you have very little air moving around.. the only thing you have to worry about is shit hovering over open media (just your flamed tools are allowed over it). If you do so, you will see no contams.

I could imagine a well sealed glove box out performing a still air box in an open environment with lots of air movement. But if you follow the still air principle, you can have a flame going outside your box, move your arm in with no air movement around the arm holes, flame all your tools when needed, and have a Much better success rate than a glove box. :2cents:




Last time i tried that i blow up the inside of my SAB nd caught a paper towel soaked in iso on fire almost taking out the living room carpet lol, i think i need to switch to a flow hood cause im not to good with fire i guess, oh well all that matters is my agar is clean now :smile:





Oh shit. Don't flame inside the box. Alcohol fumes are very combustible. Flame outside the SAB then put it back inside.


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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: thebug76]
    #22147021 - 08/26/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Haha yeah i wasnt thinking that when i did, had a couple drinks in me nd was going ham on the dabs lol


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: kushroom]
    #22147879 - 08/26/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Could just use soapy water and you wouldn't have fire.


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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Glovebox vs SAB [Re: Inocuole]
    #22147969 - 08/26/15 06:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Srirachi


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