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Invisibletahoe
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How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc to a sterilizer for under $30 * 4
    #22140987 - 08/25/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have been thinking about posting this for a few years. I had searched to see if anyone else had done this and the results were minimal. I had upgraded my 921 a few years back and had always felt it was safe. I didn't want to use the word "safe" until now. I have bought an all American sterilizer and there is nothing structurally different. So yes, I would say doing this is safe*.

All you need are two things and 25$. Get a pressure control valve (part number 65) and a new high pressure blow out plug (red part number 1010).



Remove the old blow out plug and jiggle weight vent pipe.





Now screw in the new control valve. It's rated for 26psi You might want to put a lil bit of anti seize grease on the threads but it's not necessary. Make sure you get at least 3+ turns on the new valve. The threads get tighter the more your turn it. Do not over do it.



Now push the new blow out plug. This plug is rated for over 28 psi.



Now you are ready to go.


The pros of this new setup are:
Uses less water, gets a lot hotter, possible shorter cooking time, and (my favorite) no noise. No more hours and hours of jiggling and hissing.

(*) Assuming that you are at above average intelligence.

I would like to thank juiceh for the strength, courage, and support. This post would still be a dream without his insight.


Edited: 8/30/15

Some older models of aa pc and sterilizers do not have a rubber blow out plug. Instead they have a secondary release valve that can not be manipulated by hand. It is not necessary to remove or replace this valve. You will not need to buy the red rubber/silicon blow out plug if your pc does not have a rubber blow out plug. You will only need the control valve pictured above.
Here is the older style over pressure valve.

Edited by tahoe (08/30/15 01:50 PM)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22141041 - 08/25/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Willsolvem did this to his presto (crazy dude I know) and never had issues with it. For an AA I wouldn't hesitate as I love my sterilizer, they are sweet.

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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22141078 - 08/25/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i wonder if will has blown himself up, have yet to see him in awhile


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: cronicr]
    #22141087 - 08/25/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

He was in shhh the other week but then like that, he was gone.

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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22141093 - 08/25/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ohhh i missed him lol, glad he ain't dead or locked up:rockon: nice fix tahoe


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #22141243 - 08/25/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I would feel okay about doing this to most brands, but.....
I would keep them to under 17-18psi. The thing I really like about this setup is the peace and quiet. The hissing and jiggling really starts to irritate me.
I would be fine with a presto being upgraded as long as one took caution to keep an eye on it.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

Edited by tahoe (08/27/15 10:19 AM)

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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22142180 - 08/25/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I looked into getting different pressure rated parts for my 23qt presto but didn't have any luck finding any I use a quarter taped onto my weight to keep it quieter at 15-16 psi I pushed it to 20 or so one day and the overpressure plug didn't blow off so I may try to run it just under 20 psi but I really doubt the need to do so as I rarely have issues that stem from sterilization but it would be nice to knock a little time off my grain run time TAHOE how long do you time your grain jars for at those pressures?


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tetherface]
    #22142315 - 08/25/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

wow, thank you!


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: filthyknees]
    #22142956 - 08/25/15 08:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I run my 1/2 gallon jars and small bags for 60-90 mins. The medium sized grow bags with ten+ cups of grain for 2 hours. Large grow bags with 15+ cups 3 hours+. I am familiar with where the knob needs to be on my stove to keep it between 17-20 psi. I set the temp and feel pretty good about leaving it. Head to Wal-Mart to get tubs, seed, etc. Come home and turn it off
Another major plus about the valve is that it doesn't let steam out. So I do not have to worry about the pc running out of water.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22143094 - 08/25/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
I run my 1/2 gallon jars and small bags for 60-90 mins. The medium sized grow bags with ten  cups of grain for 2 hours. Large grow bags with 15  cups 3 hours . I am familiar with where the knob needs to be on my stove to keep it between 17-20 psi. I set the temp and feel pretty good about leaving it. Head to Wal-Mart to get tubs, seed, etc. Come home and turn it off
Another major plus about the valve is that it doesn't let steam out. So I do not have to worry about the pc running out of water.



thanks for the answer that's pretty quick i do quarts longer than you do half gallons...lol someday im gonna find myself an all American but till then the presto isn't so bad but ive bought 2 gaskets for it in 18 months.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: cronicr]
    #22143768 - 08/25/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
i wonder if will has blown himself up, have yet to see him in awhile




He started talking a lot about ergot extractions, seemed like he was on the right path and quit posting. I applaud his work.

As for the OP, this is a great idea. I wouldn't modify a Presto or Mirro, but AA's threading is all the same, and the bodies of the PCs and sterilizers are the same. You won't get the little spring that's supposed to equalize temp like the sterilizers have, but I don't think it's necessary.

Don't run your modified PC above 20 PSI. You want head room. And remember that it doesn't have a pressure release during normal operation like a rocker, only your overpressure plug for emergencies. You control pressure by temperature alone. So babysit it the first more than a few times until you're 100% sure you know your settings on your stove. And if you move or buy a new stove, babysit it again.

But overall it's no more dangerous than the normal AA sterilizer, which is safe if you know what you're doing.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #22144236 - 08/26/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:

You won't get the little spring that's supposed to equalize temp like the sterilizers have, but I don't think it's necessary.

Don't run your modified PC above 20 PSI. You want head room. And remember that it doesn't have a pressure release during normal operation like a rocker, only your overpressure plug for emergencies.




What, what, and what?

What is this little spring you speak of? It equalizes temp? The only part the sterilizer has differently is the over pressure valve. Is this what you speak of? It goes off above 28psi. The rubber plug is last resort.

What are you calling head room and why would one have less at higher psi?

What does normal release like a rocker mean? This setup has a manual/automatic release valve. It opens at 26psi. Or you can manually open it at -15 to +25psi. It can even be locked open.

Were these the items you were talking about

Edited by tahoe (08/26/15 01:34 AM)

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22144262 - 08/26/15 01:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
What is this little spring you speak of? The only part the sterilizer has differently is the over pressure valve. Is this what you speak of? It goes off above 28psi. The rubber plug is last resort.




There's a spring that hangs down from the lid on the AA sterilizers. It's supposed to regulate temp.

http://www.wohlassociates.com/data/images/7697S4_xl.jpg

^ that shows it. Have you never seen an AA sterilizer?

Quote:

What are you calling head room and why would one have less at higher psi?




Head room is operating under the extreme of the safety margin of your device, no matter what it is. You'd have less of it because you'd be farther from the tested tolerance of your device. This gives you leeway in case of accidents.

Quote:

What does normal release like a rocker mean? This setup has a manual/automatic release valve. It opens at 26psi. Or you can manually open it at -15 to +25psi. It can even be locked open.




The valve you're talking about certainly does NOT have a release at 26 PSI. It stays shut to form a vacuum or build pressure. Maybe the rubber overpressure plug blows at the pressure.

Again, have you ever seen an All American sterilizer?


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: 36fuckin5] * 2
    #22144353 - 08/26/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Jesus f'ing Christ. You are an idiot. That spring thing hanging from the lid is not a spring nor is it for regulating temp. It's a hollow tube that works in conjunction with the bucket inside the sterilizer. It helps get rid of regular air so that steam can take its place. You see, hot air rises. That tube sits low.It also helps keep the pressure related valve from being blocked.

I ask you, do you have a clue?

Do you really think that 5-10psi would be much of the percentage of the so called head room of an all American? What type of psi do you think an all American can handle? A bicycle tire can hold a hundred psi. I am pretty sure 30 psi on am all American is well within a safe margin. Sure the gauge says twenty, but do you think it will blow up at 21psi?  I would be willing to bet not.


Again, do you have a clue?

As for the valve opening at 26psi. Well the stamp on the valve says so, the manual says so, and others on this site will verify that they sure do open when it's time.
Note: The manual says 22psi but the valve says 26psi. I trust the stamp on the valve but here is the literature.
specification.
PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE ALL-AMERICAN® sterilizers are equipped with a new type of excess pressure relief valve. It is designed for longer, mainte- nance-free service. The valve is designed to release pressure at 22 psi (+/- 1 psi). Each valve is equipped with a deflector cap which will direct any steam released in a downward direction.

So again, get a Fucking clue.

And another thing. The sterilizers have a total of three safety blow outs. Here is the third.
How Part No. 2050CS Works
Closed

Resilient seal design prevents leakage. Sealing efficiency increases with increased pressure up to cracking pressure. Metal-to-metal seat on low pressure side supports spring load, prevents sticking.
Open

When system pressure overcomes spring force, poppet opens, momentarily exposing variable orifice between poppet and body to pass increasing flow with minimum pressure rise without blowdown.
Resealing
Resilient seal automatically establishes line of contact with spherical seat. Seal provides dead tight reseal very close to cracking pressure.
Operating characteristics of the No. 2050CS excess pressure relief valve are:
A. Zero leakage to 95-98% of cracking pressure.
B. Increased sealing efficiency as pressure increases. Resilient "Q" ring seal is forced against metal seat as pressure increases up to set cracking pressure.
C. Cracking pressure accuracy. Valves are preset to required cracking pressure of 26 PSI.
6
Btw, thanks for ruining a great thread. Juiceh is going to be pissed at you.

Here are some links for you to enjoy
http://www.allamerican-chefsdesign.com/admin/FileUploads/Product_31.pdf

http://www.allamerican-chefsdesign.com/admin/FileUploads/Product_38.pdf

Edited by tahoe (08/26/15 02:48 AM)

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Offlinemidnightmaraude
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22144672 - 08/26/15 07:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Tahoe...

I have the 915.  I replaced the peacock that came with it with the rocker.  I don't mind the noise (memories of my grandfather when he used to cook his corn beef and cabbage) but my wife hates it and well I hate hearing my wife hating it.

Is this part you speak of a newer "Safer" version of the older peacock?

I would like to try this.

EDIT..

hmmm looking at it now I don't actually have the sterilizer with the tube going down I have the pressure cooker.  I suppose that is why they tell us to let the steam run out of the vent for 5 minutes before putting the rocker on.

Okay I get it.  I'll give this a shot

Edited by midnightmaraude (08/26/15 07:54 AM)

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: midnightmaraude]
    #22145749 - 08/26/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The tube is a newer design. You can install one in yours but is only to be used of you have the basket that goes inside. It will not do much to help with no basket.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22145810 - 08/26/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

what does the basket do?

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Invisibletahoe
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: midnightmaraude]
    #22146098 - 08/26/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Holds stuff out of the water. The sterilizers seem to have less condensation on the items once cooked. Not sure how.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread

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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22146151 - 08/26/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tahoe said:
I would like to thank juiceh for the strength, courage, and support. This post would still be a dream without his insight.



At first I was like, damn he beat me to writing this up. Then I read this and was like:


Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Quote:

tahoe said:
What is this little spring you speak of? The only part the sterilizer has differently is the over pressure valve. Is this what you speak of? It goes off above 28psi. The rubber plug is last resort.




There's a spring that hangs down from the lid on the AA sterilizers. It's supposed to regulate temp.

http://www.wohlassociates.com/data/images/7697S4_xl.jpg

^ that shows it. Have you never seen an AA sterilizer?

Quote:

What are you calling head room and why would one have less at higher psi?




Head room is operating under the extreme of the safety margin of your device, no matter what it is. You'd have less of it because you'd be farther from the tested tolerance of your device. This gives you leeway in case of accidents.

Quote:

What does normal release like a rocker mean? This setup has a manual/automatic release valve. It opens at 26psi. Or you can manually open it at -15 to  25psi. It can even be locked open.




The valve you're talking about certainly does NOT have a release at 26 PSI. It stays shut to form a vacuum or build pressure. Maybe the rubber overpressure plug blows at the pressure.

Again, have you ever seen an All American sterilizer?



That "spring" that you see that hangs down into the sterilizer is the air exhaust tube. It is only needed when you use the sterilizer basket, those that convert a PC to a sterilizer and do not use a basket do not need one. It doesn't have anything to do with temperature regulation.

The only hardware difference in tahoe's cooker lid now from a sterilizer is the lack of an over pressure relief valve and the air tube which is not needed.

My old school AA941 with the stock oldschool stopcock didn't have an overpresssure relief valve, because that's how the cookers came back then, stopcock and over pressure plug(I upgradded to the red sterilizer plug) nothing else. The other week I was sterilizing a bunch of substrate bags in it. I was also working on something else a few feet away from it. My attention was wrapped in what I was doing and the pressure got up to 25 psi I think, not exactly sure. The stopcock popped up and started venting steam. It scared the piss outta me for a second, but I quickly grabbed a wooden spoon nearby and gave the stopcock a quick tap to lock it back down. I think it vented about 2-3 psi in the 5-10 seconds it was going. I was a bit worried that I was gonna open the cooker to a big poo mess. LoL! The bags were just fine, they are colonized and cased already. :evil:

The new stopcocks I installed on my 921 & 930 and tahoe has installed operate a little differently, I think. I have not had one blow open yet. I did have one go over my target pressure, I don't recall how high it went. I want to say it went over 25psi. I recall that when pressure started getting higher than I wanted that there was some steam release from the stopcock and it started to make a hissing sound, which increased as pressure built. I cut the heat back to get pressure back to where I wanted it, so I don't know exactly what would happen if the pressure went higher. After getting a good up close look at the design and how it actually works I would assume it would continue venting and make quite a racket. All it really is, is a tube coming out of the lid the valve lever lowers a metal cylinder down onto the tube end to seal it and it is held down with spring pressure. When pressure gets too high in the cooker the steam forces the cylinder up a little bit for the steam to escape through the vent. A quick look under the deflector cap while fiddling with the stopcock lever and you can see what I mean.  If it doesn't pop up like the old school style and pressure got high enough, then the rubber blow out plug would be the last resort safety. But I'm not sure it would get to that unless the tube going into the stopcock from the cooker gets clogged. I may just run my 921 empty with a little water and try to see what happens when it goes a bit over 25psi. Not really wanting to blow out an over pressure plug and have to try to find it afterwards though. :lol:

All american vessels are tested to much higher pressures than we will ever be subjecting them to. If we were to operate them at 30 psi, we would actually have a shit ton of headroom still. But the hardware installed in the lid needs to be upgraded to support it. I bet with some tinkering the springs in the stopcocks could be replaced with stiffer springs to run higher pressures. You could replace the stopcocks altogether and install something custom. Someone posted on here that they bought a pc that someone had done just that here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21796807/page/5/fpart/1
They were still limited by the over pressure relief valve tho. If they can get that replaced with something with a higher rating they could run it higher. Then there's the blow out plug, you would have to probably have a custom plug made, or remove the plug and seal the hole instead, but I wouldn't want to do that.


Quote:

tahoe said:
As for the valve opening at 26psi. Well the stamp on the valve says so, the manual says so, and others on this site will verify that they sure do open when it's time.
Note: The manual says 22psi but the valve says 26psi. I trust the stamp on the valve but here is the literature.
specification.
PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE ALL-AMERICAN® sterilizers are equipped with a new type of excess pressure relief valve. It is designed for longer, mainte- nance-free service. The valve is designed to release pressure at 22 psi (+/- 1 psi). Each valve is equipped with a deflector cap which will direct any steam released in a downward direction.

Here are some links for you to enjoy
http://www.allamerican-chefsdesign.com/admin/FileUploads/Product_31.pdf

http://www.allamerican-chefsdesign.com/admin/FileUploads/Product_38.pdf



I thought my new stopcocks said something about 26psi on them. Thanks for laying out all the pressure rating info for all the parts. All that info is hard to get in one place, and some of it is conflicting. Like the 22 psi release or 26psi for the stopcocks. I think the lower value may be for the old style stopcock. When I blew my AA941 stopcock open I don't recall exactly what pressure it happened at. It may have been only 22psi. I should do a a little experiment and see exactly when they pop. For science, ya know? :wink:

Quote:

tahoe said:
The tube is a newer design. You can install one in yours but is only to be used of you have the basket that goes inside. It will not do much to help with no basket.



I believe I read somewhere that it is highly recommended to remove the exhaust tube if you are going to run the sterilizer without the basket.

Quote:

tahoe said:
Btw, thanks for ruining a great thread. Juiceh is going to be pissed at you.



:bathtub40lol:


I would also like to point out another great benefit that this mod allows that no one seems to mention... You can run greatly extended cook times without the fear of running the cooker dry at all. As long as your heat settings are right you could run one run for days and when you open it back up, it will have the same amount of water in there. So, if you really want to sterilize the shit out of a batch of dirty grains for a long ass time. This mod makes that a little easier.


--------------------
Trade List

How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR

Edited by Juiceh (08/26/15 12:38 PM)

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Offlinemidnightmaraude
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh] * 2
    #22146306 - 08/26/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Juiceh, thanks for the thorough explanation.  I will do this modification not using a basket. (I just have the bottom wire rack I use). 

Could this still be used for cooking meals modified like this?  I'm guessing the only difference between "sterilizer and pressure cooker" is the temperature it can go to or do you pressure cook by immediately placing the rocker weight or peacock in the locked position rather than letting it vent steam for a bit?

How long would you sterilize grains for or grass seed at 20psi?

The red stopper in the literature says it's rated for 30psi fwiw

Tahoe:  Where are you getting the parts from for $25?  Can only find em for about $38 not including shipping.

Edited by midnightmaraude (08/26/15 01:04 PM)

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