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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Nature Boy]
    #22219368 - 09/10/15 11:21 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Huh...that IS interesting.  Meanwhile, I found THIS valve.  I really like the design of it.  No chance to break off any silly, flimsy posts.  http://www.sterilizerusa.com/all-american-sterilizer-65k-control-valve.html

It's pricey, of course.  Notice how they NEVER mention that it fits the 921!  WTF is up with that?  An AA PC is an AA PC, right?  Maybe NOT?!

N.B.




That's the one I have on my AA 75x.  I had ordered it from all American two years ago. Glad I seem to have gotten the old style as its been solid for me.


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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22219399 - 09/10/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

That's the one that's on my 25x as well. I'm glad they're still available somewhere because I want a backup, and I haven't read anything good about the new style.


--------------------

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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: NumeroEno]
    #22220461 - 09/11/15 07:06 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NumeroEno said:
That's the one that's on my 25x as well. I'm glad they're still available somewhere because I want a backup, and I haven't read anything good about the new style.



They aren't available, that link just uses the old pic. You will get the new valve if you order one there.


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh]
    #22220521 - 09/11/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

OK...got 'er done!  Works fine.  A little scary, for sure!  Took it up to 18 p.s.i. before I chickened out and removed it from the heat.  Cooling now.  Hardly takes any energy at all to maintain 18 p.s.i.

EDIT:  OK!  It pulled and held a vacuum all night long.  So now you just crack the valve in front of the flow hood and can be virtually guaranteed no contamination...  No wonder you smart and innovative guys get such great results! Thanks for sharing the wisdom, and thanks to all who were supportive during this endeavor and provided constructive advice  A special thanks to Tahoe for starting this thread!  I really like this way of doing things, although it's a little scary watching the pressure get so near the "danger" zone.





N.B.


Edited by Nature Boy (09/12/15 04:16 AM)


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Nature Boy]
    #22239559 - 09/15/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I got the replacement valve today. Same stamped markings as the one with the loose deflector shield.

I had to pasteurize a large bag of substrate in the 941 tonight. After I was done with that I got around to the install.

The deep impact socket worked like a dream to remove the old valve. It turns out the old valve is only a couple threads deep into the lid. Here is a pic of the old valve, you can see how deep it was screwed into the lid.


The threads looked ok. There was no teflon tape or anything like that on the original valve. I took the new valve and compared the threads on the old and new valve, they looked identical. I then took the new valve and tried to grab a thread in the lid, no problem. Then I applied the teflon tape and had no problem getting the valve to catch the threads as well. The deep impact socket was awesome for tightening the valve down! For the most part I was palming the head of the wrench the socket was connected to. Only for the last 1/2-3/4 turn did I use the end of the handle to get extra leverage to tighten it up. I got the valve installed about as deep as the original valve. I could probably wrench it down harder, but I felt it was tighter than the original valve, so it wasn't necessary to risk overdoing it.





The lid of the cooker was still hot\warm when I did the install. I dunno if that made a significant difference in the ease of this install.

I highly recommend the deep impact socket for this install. So much easier than a crescent wrench or vice grips like I used last time!

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
OK...got 'er done!  Works fine.  A little scary, for sure!  Took it up to 18 p.s.i. before I chickened out and removed it from the heat.  Cooling now.  Hardly takes any energy at all to maintain 18 p.s.i.

EDIT:  OK!  It pulled and held a vacuum all night long.  So now you just crack the valve in front of the flow hood and can be virtually guaranteed no contamination...  No wonder you smart and innovative guys get such great results! Thanks for sharing the wisdom, and thanks to all who were supportive during this endeavor and provided constructive advice  A special thanks to Tahoe for starting this thread!  I really like this way of doing things, although it's a little scary watching the pressure get so near the "danger" zone.





N.B.



Glad you got it squared away!

The "danger" line / 20psi is my target. Don't fear the "danger" zone! :lol: Well not until you get over 25 psi.

Whats up with your stopcock tho? The last pic you posted looks like the lever on top of the valve is missing.


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RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


Edited by Juiceh (10/09/15 08:08 AM)


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh]
    #22239707 - 09/15/15 04:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I'm still waiting for the 921 lid.  and they charged my card twice :oldman2:

it definitely pulls a vacuum with the stop cock and red plug alone.  i haven't gone more than 36 hours yet, but even then, there was a vacuum.

I like that teflon idea J, I'm surprised it still fit in there though.


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Offlinemidnightmaraude
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22239870 - 09/15/15 06:38 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

So for those of us that don't have a flow hood what would you recommend? Wrap a coffee filter around the vent when releasing pressure?


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: midnightmaraude]
    #22239880 - 09/15/15 06:45 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

If the weight is on it, it's letting air *out* and not pulling it in.

I'd think if there were a subsequent vacuum the weight would not allow air back in.

Well, it wouldn't. Just let the thing cool down as-is. Everything inside should be in jars or bags anyway so it's really a moot point. Even if the caps are loosened, that should be fine. (Source every single biological laboratory with autoclaves)

Don't put anything on the vent; it's designed to work as is.

And IMO, a flow hood is way overkill unless you're doing delicate agar stuff.


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Offlinemidnightmaraude
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: micro]
    #22239907 - 09/15/15 06:57 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
If the weight is on it, it's letting air *out* and not pulling it in.

I'd think if there were a subsequent vacuum the weight would not allow air back in.

Well, it wouldn't. Just let the thing cool down as-is. Everything inside should be in jars or bags anyway so it's really a moot point. Even if the caps are loosened, that should be fine. (Source every single biological laboratory with autoclaves)

Don't put anything on the vent; it's designed to work as is.

And IMO, a flow hood is way overkill unless you're doing delicate agar stuff.





not using the weight... replaced it with the new steriziler vent. so people are saying with it closed it holds a vacuum.  So when I flip that thing up there is going to be an exchange of outside air going in. I agree things in jars and bags should be kept ok but ya know.
So maybe wrapping a coffee filter around the vent while it releases pressure may minimize the risk of contaminates getting into my stuff.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: midnightmaraude]
    #22239910 - 09/15/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

There *will* be a vacuum if  everything is hot in there.

It will suck air in because of the heat.

If you let it cool, it negates this problem.

I don't know anything about replacing parts on those; just worked as it was.


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: micro]
    #22240298 - 09/15/15 08:55 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Just a FYI. I have the date of manufacture stamped on the middle of the inside of the lid on all of my sterilizers. I believe that the canners are as well (too lazy to look at it). 

I will remind everyone that the tube is never used without the basket. The tube is "coiled up" at the top of the lid and wrapped in a sturdy rubber band, if it is "permanently" installed on the lid, when not using the basket. I know that the changeover discussed here doesn't include the tube so it's just an FYI.

If anyone has a problem with the lid sealing to the vessel itself, a bit of scotch brite run around both mating surfaces should have that problem taken care of. Don't forget to run some olive oil (or Vaseline) around the outside sealing surface of the lid.

Just so everyone knows, the AA canners originally came with all of the attachments you are "converting" back to. It was the U.L. listing that forced the "rocker" system on them. There is no difference in the two models of sterilizer and canner as far as construction goes.

It is a great idea to "chase" the threads of the 1/8" NPT fittings with a tap before removing or installing devices. Teflon tape is cheaper than dirt and is a very good sealer/thread lubricator in one. The Tech at WAFCO told me it was a great idea anyway.

I would not hesitate to call the number to the tech line at WAFCO to discuss any and all matters concerning their products as they are extremely helpful and the authority on these wonderful appliances.

As I stand in front of all of the orange with blue writing envelopes from All American in my closet, with the graveyard of gauges, taps, tubes, rockers, and stopcocks and whatnot, (and some pulled out hair), I thank you for such a great write-up on this subject. Great going.


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: bootster]
    #22241903 - 09/15/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

My new vent says fc on it too. Didn't break on me but is it safe to use? I just turned it on first time
and all the issues are scaring me. Was it just the installation as an issue?


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: midnightmaraude]
    #22242061 - 09/15/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Ok... took some finagaling but i have it somewhat stable at 20psi
with the stove dial at 2.5 (electric)
then after 5 Mims or so it drops 1psi. Hard to keep it constant.
turn it up and it goes up beyond my comfort level.
any tips?


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: micro]
    #22242142 - 09/15/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
If the weight is on it, it's letting air *out* and not pulling it in.




True.  Air at first, steam later on.


Quote:

I'd think if there were a subsequent vacuum the weight would not allow air back in.




Utterly false.  The vent/weight combination is not even close to air tight and will not hold a vacuum.  Air enters with nearly the same ease as the steam exits.  That is the principle advantage of doing the conversion...otherwise no one would be doing it! That plus not having to listen to that pesky rocker weight rattle around.  :lol:

And for the record, the vacuum is created inside the PC when the steam (a gas) trapped inside the PC condenses back into water (a liquid), which is (IIRC) 1/2000 the volume when it occurs.  Don't quote me on the exact loss of volume, but it IS the mechanism for vacuum creation, and no other.  At 212°F, and 14.7 psia, liquid water has a specific volume of 0.016716 ft3/lbm and steam has a specfic volume of 26.80 3/lbm, which is a volume ratio of ~1603 : 1 of steam:water.  Since we're taking it up to 20 PSI and 250 degrees it's close to 2000.  Don't feel like doing the math right now - it's dinner time.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/water-to-steam.209842/


Quote:

And IMO, a flow hood is way overkill unless you're doing delicate agar stuff.




Which is what some of us are doing.

N.B.


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All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


Edited by Nature Boy (09/15/15 05:04 PM)


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Offlinemidnightmaraude
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Nature Boy] * 1
    #22242644 - 09/15/15 06:24 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

With the dial on 4 it settled around 19 psi
I'm good with that.  Family enjoys the quiet. Save some
energy where to maintain it at 15psi before the new vent i had it at 7.5 on the stove dial.

I may go to 4.5 or 5 on the dial.  I get scared because my dial is old and tops out at 20psi.

Anyone else have tips.... 

Like do you run it on high to get it up to temp and at what psi do you turn the dial down?


Edited by midnightmaraude (09/16/15 09:39 AM)


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh]
    #22247878 - 09/16/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
Whats up with your stopcock tho? The last pic you posted looks like the lever on top of the valve is missing.





Lol!  Nothing is wrong with it.  It's perfect.  It' just a crappy point of view. The lever is facing directly away from the camera and gives the impression it is missing.


N.B.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Nature Boy]
    #22250424 - 09/17/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

Juiceh said:
Whats up with your stopcock tho? The last pic you posted looks like the lever on top of the valve is missing.





Lol!  Nothing is wrong with it.  It's perfect.  It' just a crappy point of view. The lever is facing directly away from the camera and gives the impression it is missing.


N.B.



Weird... I stared at that pic for a few mins like:  :freshwtf:


I haven't had a chance to test the new stopcock on my 941. Tonight I'll give it an empty run to see how it goes. I might apply a little vaseline to the blow out plug hole contact area to ensure a better seal, since it sputters and crackles just a little bit while bringing up to pressure. But I'm kinda wondering if that may make the blowout plug easier to blow out.


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh]
    #22250818 - 09/17/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Been out of town for a week. What did I miss?

Thanks for the input bootster. It is a good idea to chase/clean out the threads with a tap. The Teflon tape is a good suggestion also. Make sure you wrap the tape to the right while looking from the bottom of the threads. The purpose is so the tape doesn't unravel while inserting the valve. Make sure to remove any tape that might be covering the hole at the bottom.

Nature boy, don't be scared ;-). Let her rip. Hey her up to 26psi and let the valve go. Better to do it when you are waiting for it. You will get comfortable with the idea and possibly feel safe.

I feel awful that blinding had to buy a new lid. But I am glad that you are up and running.
What else did I miss?


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: tahoe]
    #22251074 - 09/17/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

have any of u guys actually seen the red blow out plug blow out?  or the black one for that matter?

sometimes, it gets up there in PSI, and i don't catch it quick enough (still messing with heat settings)…i'd feel better if someone saw it happen.

tahoe, i still appreciate the thread, buying a new lid was no problem, the 921 i had was very old, so honestly, i feel safer doing it that way anyway.  the 941 was only 3 years old, and in great condition.  the 921 was bought used…very used.  probably some dude who used to grow mushrooms, those damn mushroom growers fuck up everything :oldman2:


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Re: How to Safely Upgrade your All American pc [Re: Juiceh]
    #22251345 - 09/17/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Juiceh said:
Weird... I stared at that pic for a few mins like:  :freshwtf:





Yeah, I know...it was such an awkward angle.  Here...should make you feel better:  :lol:



N.B.


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