|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes
#22135863 - 08/24/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Okay, so I don't have any background in organic chemistry, nor am I any kind of wizard when it comes to metabolic pathways and such. So I really have no idea if this would aid or even change anything.
I have heard of people experimenting with supplements in their spawn such as tryptamine. I don't recall ever reading that anyone had any tremendous success.
But has anyone ever tried spawning using Syrian Rue seeds? Did you feel it changed your outcome? I have been extracting harmol from these seeds for the MAOI effect, and have had some successful 'shroomahuasca' trips. Is it impossible that the effect could be within the mushroom because of how it's been cultivated?
Edited by dankington (08/24/15 08:19 PM)
|
Grim767
Traveler of the Abyss



Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 225
Loc: The Abyss
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: dankington]
#22147264 - 08/26/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Trade List I won't bow to something that I've never seen, Can't believe in something that doesn't believe in me, I'm not blood of your blood, I'm no son of your god, I have no faith in your faith, Still I find salvation.
|
MiNdTwIsTeR
ThirdEye

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 427
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: Grim767]
#22147705 - 08/26/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Would love to hear input on this.
--------------------
Summer 09' Beautiful Plant (date on cam wrong) **MiNdTwIsTeRs Trade List**
|
egodeathflux
Guttersnipe



Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 3,854
Loc: The Stygian Pits
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: MiNdTwIsTeR]
#22147747 - 08/26/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Grow shrooms > Eat shrooms > Smoke Rue > Profit.
Why complicate things?
I very much doubt it would work, but if you have stumbled across Shroomahuasca fruits then fair play....
-------------------- "Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies" "Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"
|
Grim767
Traveler of the Abyss



Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 225
Loc: The Abyss
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: egodeathflux]
#22148714 - 08/26/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I think I'm gonna try it out I'll add some to some wbs on my next go around just to see if the myc likes it.
-------------------- Trade List I won't bow to something that I've never seen, Can't believe in something that doesn't believe in me, I'm not blood of your blood, I'm no son of your god, I have no faith in your faith, Still I find salvation.
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: Grim767]
#22148829 - 08/26/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Awesome, I think I will too on my next go. I mean, why not? I get it at a halal store for pretty cheap.
|
dankington
The Stranger




Registered: 03/14/15
Posts: 4,577
Loc: 8te
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: egodeathflux]
#22150632 - 08/27/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Perhaps you are right, egodeathflux. In all fairness, it isn't that I wish to complicate anything. I imagine if everyone always settled for what worked without questioning things, the world would be a much different place!
Edited by dankington (08/27/15 09:58 AM)
|
egodeathflux
Guttersnipe



Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 3,854
Loc: The Stygian Pits
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: dankington]
#22207468 - 09/08/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I just doubt the MAOI's (harmine et al) would not be broken down by the digestive process of the mycelium.
By all means try it and post your results, I just wouldn't hold my breath, but you are right, experimentation is the root of all discovery in many areas.
-------------------- "Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies" "Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"
|
Toadstool5
A Registered Mycophile



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: egodeathflux] 1
#22208244 - 09/08/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
In reference to the shikimate/tryptamine cycle harmaline/harmine are a weird indole without many similar functional groups, its hard to say how selective the enzymes are but they lack a carboxyl group, amino group, and hydroxyl group so i highly doubt the decarboxylase, indolethylamine-O-Methyltransferase, or phosphorylase would have any reaction. Harmalol might be phosphorylated but nobody understands the mechanism yet. The harmala alkaloids might be a competitive inhibitor of tryptamine synthesis by down regulation. So I doubt it would inhibit the final conversion of tryptamine to psilocybin because of the lack of any -COOH or Methylamino group but i definitely think it would effect the amount of tryptamine produced so the potency would suffer.
Quote:
Are tissue cultures of Peganum harmala a useful model system for studying how to manipulate the formation of secondary metabolites? J. Berlin, C. Rügenhagen, I. N. Kuzovkina, L. F. Fecker, F. Sasse
Abstract This article reviews our present knowledge on the formation of tryptophan derived secondary metabolites in tissue cultures of Peganum harmala. With the presence of β-carboline alkaloids and serotonin, P. harmala contains two rather simple, interrelated biosynthetic pathways. The long term disadvantage of low and unstable productivity of P. harmala suspension culture has recently been overcome by establishing highly productive hairy root cultures. The first β-carboline alkaloid biosynthetic enzymes, specific for the O-methylation of harmalol and harmol as well as for the oxidation of harmaline to harmine, have been detected in these cultures, and they should thus provide a suitable source for studying the yet unknown initial two enzymatic steps of β-carboline alkaloid biosynthesis. Seedlings of P. harmala have also been successfully transformed with constructed strains of Agrobacterium, as demonstrated by the overexpression of a tryptophan decarboxylase gene from Catharanthus roseus in cultures of P. harmala. In such transgenic cultures a large overproduction of serotonin was observed. The relative simplicity of these pathways and the rather easy handling of the cultures could make P. harmala a useful and attractive model system for studying the interaction, regulation and manipulation of secondary pathways in cultured cells.
Quote:
Alkaloidal constituents ofpeganum harmala and synthesis of the minor alkaloid deoxyvascinone
Abstract Of the four alkaloids isolated from the seeds ofP. harmala, harmine constitutes the major component, the other three occurring as minor constituents. One of these is shown to be harmaline, the second minor base being deoxyvascinone, the third one being under characterization though its spectral analyses suggest it to be a 2 alkoxyquinolone derivative. A new synthesis of deoxyvascinone has been achieved from anthranilic acid and γ-aminobutyric acid. During this synthesis another product is also obtained for which a plausible structure has been postulated from spectral evidences.
The seeds and their smoke are used as disinfectants and anti-fungal agents so it's not going to benefit your cultures at all 
If you wish to add harmala alkaloids to fruit bodies why not harvest them and dry them, soak them in a tea of syrian rue seeds, then re-dry them? Should leave a decent amount in them and if you don't soak for more than say 12 hours and re-dry them quickly there should be no issue with spoilage. Kinda like laying a sheet but obviously the fruit body takes longer to absorb the solution and can hopefully hold more than blotter paper if the alkaloids can pass through the intact membranes/cell walls. Simply lace 'Em
Edited by Toadstool5 (09/08/15 05:47 PM)
|
egodeathflux
Guttersnipe



Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 3,854
Loc: The Stygian Pits
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
|
Re: Syrian Rue for use in spawning cubes [Re: Toadstool5]
#22285146 - 09/24/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Toadstool5 said: In reference to the shikimate/tryptamine cycle harmaline/harmine are a weird indole without many similar functional groups, its hard to say how selective the enzymes are but they lack a carboxyl group, amino group, and hydroxyl group so i highly doubt the decarboxylase, indolethylamine-O-Methyltransferase, or phosphorylase would have any reaction. Harmalol might be phosphorylated but nobody understands the mechanism yet. The harmala alkaloids might be a competitive inhibitor of tryptamine synthesis by down regulation. So I doubt it would inhibit the final conversion of tryptamine to psilocybin because of the lack of any -COOH or Methylamino group but i definitely think it would effect the amount of tryptamine produced so the potency would suffer.
Quote:
Are tissue cultures of Peganum harmala a useful model system for studying how to manipulate the formation of secondary metabolites? J. Berlin, C. Rügenhagen, I. N. Kuzovkina, L. F. Fecker, F. Sasse
Abstract This article reviews our present knowledge on the formation of tryptophan derived secondary metabolites in tissue cultures of Peganum harmala. With the presence of β-carboline alkaloids and serotonin, P. harmala contains two rather simple, interrelated biosynthetic pathways. The long term disadvantage of low and unstable productivity of P. harmala suspension culture has recently been overcome by establishing highly productive hairy root cultures. The first β-carboline alkaloid biosynthetic enzymes, specific for the O-methylation of harmalol and harmol as well as for the oxidation of harmaline to harmine, have been detected in these cultures, and they should thus provide a suitable source for studying the yet unknown initial two enzymatic steps of β-carboline alkaloid biosynthesis. Seedlings of P. harmala have also been successfully transformed with constructed strains of Agrobacterium, as demonstrated by the overexpression of a tryptophan decarboxylase gene from Catharanthus roseus in cultures of P. harmala. In such transgenic cultures a large overproduction of serotonin was observed. The relative simplicity of these pathways and the rather easy handling of the cultures could make P. harmala a useful and attractive model system for studying the interaction, regulation and manipulation of secondary pathways in cultured cells.
Quote:
Alkaloidal constituents ofpeganum harmala and synthesis of the minor alkaloid deoxyvascinone
Abstract Of the four alkaloids isolated from the seeds ofP. harmala, harmine constitutes the major component, the other three occurring as minor constituents. One of these is shown to be harmaline, the second minor base being deoxyvascinone, the third one being under characterization though its spectral analyses suggest it to be a 2 alkoxyquinolone derivative. A new synthesis of deoxyvascinone has been achieved from anthranilic acid and γ-aminobutyric acid. During this synthesis another product is also obtained for which a plausible structure has been postulated from spectral evidences.
The seeds and their smoke are used as disinfectants and anti-fungal agents so it's not going to benefit your cultures at all 
If you wish to add harmala alkaloids to fruit bodies why not harvest them and dry them, soak them in a tea of syrian rue seeds, then re-dry them? Should leave a decent amount in them and if you don't soak for more than say 12 hours and re-dry them quickly there should be no issue with spoilage. Kinda like laying a sheet but obviously the fruit body takes longer to absorb the solution and can hopefully hold more than blotter paper if the alkaloids can pass through the intact membranes/cell walls. Simply lace 'Em 
That's what I was trying to say...
-------------------- "Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies" "Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"
|
|